Billionaire OA collector

[vodou]

...will never care about it enough to have discussions about it with their buddy Oleg in their $150 million properties in London or Monte Carlo unless the stuff becomes established as a mega status symbol first (which I don't see ever happening to an extent that it would attract that kind of money from people who don't really care about it).

The foreigners buying high end RE market is very much due to ease of doing business, opaquely, quietly and privately. London is now drying up though due to more transparency and new tax revenue schemes. (And the natural pushback from citizens that can't afford to live in their own cities!) Same other places (notably Australia, Canada). Probably US soon enough. High-end (and all) RE is a big fat tax target. All day, every day.

 

New tax/RE havens may soon appear, from presumably non-broke local/state/national governments (is there even a one of these??)...or excess capital will find new places to park (and hide). But I think we'll all agree: it will always flow to where it's treated best -and in a world where every government wants to know "who's got what, and where"- along with the least transparency. This has nothing to do with nostalgia or language barriers.

[delekkerste]

New tax/RE havens may soon appear, from presumably non-broke local/state/national governments (is there even a one of these??)...or excess capital will find new places to park (and hide). But I think we'll all agree: it will always flow to where it's treated best -and in a world where every government wants to know "who's got what, and where"- along with the least transparency. This has nothing to do with nostalgia or language barriers.

 

If you're talking about OA-as-safe-deposit-box equivalent, it has everything to do with nostalgia and language barriers - if people don't trust and understand it, they're not going to park their money in it. It's as simple as that.

 

In any case, OA is too low priced for people with real money to shelter (and would be even at multiples of current values). Furthermore, both buying and selling is difficult if you don't know what you're doing. People in the OA hobby may eventually look to stash some of their cash in OA (heck, I know people looking to get assets "off-book" doing it already), but I think it's sheer fantasy to think that uber-rich outsiders, especially foreigners, will be doing so in any meaningful fashion.

[vodou]

Just providing a counterpoint Gene. One I don't see anybody else bringing up.

 

I agree $1250 Sal Buscema actiony panel pages it ain't gonna be. But add a zero (and the flood that would hit the market from collectors sensing -incorrectly- a bubble top) and it's a different story. 10x ($12,500) is $125k.100x is $1.25m. 1000x (and does anybody doubt there are that many qualifying Sal B., Trimpe, Pollard, et al dross -in multiples- to meet this number?) = $12.5m.

 

Maybe you accept the above, maybe not? But even I see the curation problem. Lotta work pulling all that together for guys that are used to just sending "somebody" to do it for them. (Particularly in markets they don't personally know/understand.) Enter Spencer last year representing a $1m buying group (whatever that really meant). Well that wasn't "them" either, but it sure could be. It's a no-brainer template for middling where everybody gets what they want. Get Spencer, Albert, Mitch and a few others with decades of experience (and a track record to show) and a certain ability to talk to the rich without being "oh gosh, oh my, you're so friggin' RICH" and drooling all over themselves...and they do the curation. The end-buyer just pays. Middler clears 10-25% skim. The art goes in a vault (here or "there") And anonymity is retained (of course).

 

All this is a world talking more and more seriously about NIRP "beyond" Japan and EU and physical cash bans to enforce it. (Not that billionaires, even with their rather large estates could ever seriously store significant cash in-hand anyway!) People can take what they want from this, but again not something I see others around here talking about - so I raised it in opposition of the usual (and quite logical) demographic/nostalgia line of thinking. Ha ha and me being a bear on future price growth in comic art outpacing other asset classes! But I try to keep an open mind...

[batman_fan]

I'm convinced, who has the names and numbers of a couple of these billionaires that I can sell my John Buscema Avengers splashes to fo $50k a pop.

[jaybuck43]

I'm convinced, who has the names and numbers of a couple of these billionaires that I can sell my John Buscema Avengers splashes to fo $50k a pop.

 

I have a meeting with one today. If you can send me scans before 12:00 EDT, I can see if they are interested.

[delekkerste]

I'm convinced, who has the names and numbers of a couple of these billionaires that I can sell my John Buscema Avengers splashes to fo $50k a pop.

 

I have a meeting with one today. If you can send me scans before 12:00 EDT, I can see if they are interested.

 

I thought we were meeting at 11:30am?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I'm convinced, who has the names and numbers of a couple of these billionaires that I can sell my John Buscema Avengers splashes to fo $50k a pop.

 

I have a meeting with one today. If you can send me scans before 12:00 EDT, I can see if they are interested.

 

I thought we were meeting at 11:30am?

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's next week Gene, might be time to get a new PA. I'll tell Carlos you said hola.

[delekkerste]

Just providing a counterpoint Gene. One I don't see anybody else bringing up.

 

I agree $1250 Sal Buscema actiony panel pages it ain't gonna be. But add a zero (and the flood that would hit the market from collectors sensing -incorrectly- a bubble top) and it's a different story. 10x ($12,500) is $125k.100x is $1.25m. 1000x (and does anybody doubt there are that many qualifying Sal B., Trimpe, Pollard, et al dross -in multiples- to meet this number?) = $12.5m.

 

Maybe you accept the above, maybe not?

 

I don't agree with the above. $125K? It would be so, so much easier to just sock that away in physical cash. Or gold. 100 oz. of gold (which is about what $125K would buy) doesn't take up much space at all. Buying ten pages averaging $12,500 each is much more cumbersome than you might think for someone who doesn't know the market, let alone a hundred pages to shelter $1.25 million. I've been collecting OA for 13 years, and have spent countless hours assembling my collection (most of which is not public). And yet, someone could put that much capital to work in a day in the fine art, classic car, gold or real estate markets; there are any number of schemes that are already in place to both move and shelter capital as well (you should read about the creative ways the Chinese are getting money out of their country). That would be true even of the biggest OA collections in the hobby. $20 mil or $50 mil collections that have taken 20-40 years to put together? A rich billionaire can just buy one or two paintings or properties and put that much money away, while not having to know a thing about all the infinite nuances of comic book history, continuity and the OA market itself.

 

I do agree with you that the general public is clueless about the war on cash (there are active campaigns to ban the $100 note in the U.S. and even higher denomination notes in the EU and Switzerland), negative interest rates, new luxury taxes on real estate, and all the other government schemes to more easily confiscate your money to pad their coffers. But, that's not going to bring in outside money to our hobby, IMO (there are countless other more plausible alternatives), and I've heard it a thousand times already how ZIRP (zero interest rate policy) has prompted numerous collectors to buy more art instead of saving more over the past 7 years, so much of what you're talking about is already embedded in current prices.

[Nexus]

More pics courtesy of Bleeding Cool:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/25/walking-around-the-very-well-named-impossible-collection-of-dc-comic-books/

 

You can see the DKR retail display standee art in one of the pics. I saw it in the batch of pics yesterday, but it just registered in my mind as the standee. Now I can see that it's the painted art. Never saw that before...

[Bronty]

citizens that can't afford to live in their own cities!) Same other places (notably Australia, Canada).

 

Local RE went up 30% across the board last year. 30%! in twelve months.

[BCarter27]

Nice catch on the Miller piece. Such a great image. I'd love to get a closer look at that one.

[artdealer]

I sold the Miller several years ago.

MI

[comix4fun]

More pics courtesy of Bleeding Cool:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/25/walking-around-the-very-well-named-impossible-collection-of-dc-comic-books/

 

You can see the DKR retail display standee art in one of the pics. I saw it in the batch of pics yesterday, but it just registered in my mind as the standee. Now I can see that it's the painted art. Never saw that before...

 

 

 

I have that standee, it's small in size and meant to be a POP table top item, and the piece shown seems much larger. I don't think I've ever seen the OA for the standee before. That would be amazing to see a close shot of.

[vodou]

(you should read about the creative ways the Chinese are getting money out of their country).

I know all about the $50k official annual export limit and how they're getting around it. The rest you write, is all fine for the world as we know it today. As I wrote I keep an open mind, especially in the sense that things can and do change dramatically at times with equally (or greater) dramatic results. Often unanticipated. I'd never expect (or even consider) original comic art to be anybody's first, second or even tenth solution to the problem we're discussing. But as an allocation, or a remaining alternative in a situation where the number of alternatives is rapidly decreasing (think "dramatically changing conditions"), etc. Sure.

 

(Don't worry Gene - I'm not staking my retirement on this outcome!)

 

As for gold bullion...don't take a train ride cross border in the EU with heavy weight. Not even with more than token jewelry on

 

 

Traveling with bullion exceeding a certain value (that jurisdiction allows) these days is considered evidence of smuggling, money laundering, tax/duty evasion, whatever these days. Good luck getting it back post-confiscation.

[Dick O.]

A feature on Hariri:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/billionaire-ayman-hariri-why-i-collect-impossibly-rare-comics-bu/

 

[Nexus]

I sold the Miller several years ago.

MI

 

Was that painted directly over Miller pencils?

[Bill C]

Very nice, I also saw the Miller and mistakenly assumed it was one of the printed displays, not the original

[BCarter27]

 

Not my pic, but who is the painter? Lynn Varley? Airbrush?

[stinkininkin]

More pics courtesy of Bleeding Cool:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/25/walking-around-the-very-well-named-impossible-collection-of-dc-comic-books/

 

You can see the DKR retail display standee art in one of the pics. I saw it in the batch of pics yesterday, but it just registered in my mind as the standee. Now I can see that it's the painted art. Never saw that before...

 

I see multiple pieces by Jim and myself in this collection of pictures, including some Hush art. Dude is not only a billionaire, but he has damn fine taste in art.

 

 

 

 

Scott

[Bronty]

More pics courtesy of Bleeding Cool:

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/03/25/walking-around-the-very-well-named-impossible-collection-of-dc-comic-books/

 

You can see the DKR retail display standee art in one of the pics. I saw it in the batch of pics yesterday, but it just registered in my mind as the standee. Now I can see that it's the painted art. Never saw that before...

 

I see multiple pieces by Jim and myself in this collection of pictures, including some Hush art. Dude is not only a billionaire, but he has damn fine taste in art.

 

 

 

 

Scott

 

well played