THE BATMAN starring Robert Pattinson (2022) 13 13

[DiamondCityComics]

Show us on the doll where DC touched you JD.

Edited March 21, 2022 by DiamondCityComics

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:54 AM, Gatsby77 said:

How so?

Did you not see the deluge of articles noting that No Time to Die had well over $90 million in revenue from product placement - well before the film's first trailer dropped?

To believe that The Batman didn't have at least $50 million of its costs instantly covered by product placement isn't just naive - it's intellectually dishonest.

But go ahead...keep discounting all of the above as mere "ancillaries."

The 2.5x - 3.0x production budget in global theatrical remains the standard precisely because all of those lifetime ancillaries cover the P&A costs -- yes, even now that P&A can be as high as 100% of the production budget itself.

I did see that.  Did you see where one of the producers said the all in was $500MM, production, P&A?  Do you think that The Batman cost  significantly less than that?   I was being "conservative" with my $350MM.  Things don't get any better as far as theatrical revenue return is concerned if its budget is actually closer to no time to die.  

And please, do explain how on which galaxy a 2.5x multiple for no time to die's production budget = "well into the black".

-J.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jaydogrules

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/21/2022 at 4:24 AM, Bosco685 said:

Well, since a movie balance sheet is like any other business P&L can you let us know the following filming incentives and additional credits:

1) How much Tax Incentives The Batman received for each filming location to reduce costs, and how do you know?

2) The Batman was filmed in both the UK and Chicago, USA which are known to also provide Cash Rebates to counter local expenses in addition to tax incentives; how much was that again and how do you know?

3) With any Product Placement Revenue how much was that amount again, and how do you know?

4) Certain USA states and countries also offer a Sales Tax Incentive and Lodging Expense Incentive to encourage local filming: did The Batman receive such incentives, and how do you know?

5) Studios are also offered Fee-Free Location Incentives so as to encourage filming in the area: did The Batman receive such incentives, and how do you know?

- B

I don't know any of that stuff and I don't care. I'm going based on the production budget as reported, assume that it includes those discounts, or you can assume the studio is actually low balling it (which many are often suspected of doing).  It doesn't matter either way or help what this movie is making.  Funny thing is, I'm disappointed by these numbers.  Again , I did not think it would get anywhere near no way home numbers.  But I thought it would at least do Joker numbers.  

And that was a fair expectation.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:20 AM, Jaydogrules said:

I don't know any of that stuff and I don't care. I'm going based on the production budget as reported, assume that it includes those discounts, or you can assume the studio is actually low balling it (which many are often suspected of doing).  It doesn't matter either way or help what this movie is making.  Funny thing is, I'm disappointed by these numbers.  Again , I did not think it would get anywhere near no way home numbers.  But I thought it would at least do Joker numbers.  

And that was a fair expectation.  

-J.

The more reasonable expectation is not comparing it to other films as a self-fulfilling prophecy for failure when these comparisons aren't even logical. It is taking into consideration this is a new standalone franchise that has to survive or die on its own.

If you compared it to Spider-Man: No Way Home, the:

• 27th MCU film
• 9th dedicated Spider-Man film
• 6th MCU Spider-Man appearance
• 3rd MCU Spider-Man film

...you are already starting out with a flawed comparison model. And even with this being the 10th standalone Batman-associated movie (if you count LEGO Batman and not include BVS as a shared film) this is the 1st time Robert Pattinson has played Batman.

Just admit it: you wanted to make up some situation to hate on the film, and threw together wild comparisons to justify the hate. But the comparisons are not logical at all. It is like grabbing a grapefruit and proclaiming it failed in its natural design by not being as sweet as an orange.

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/21/2022 at 7:48 AM, Bosco685 said:

The more reasonable expectation is not comparing it to other films as a self-fulfilling prophecy for failure when these comparisons aren't even logical. It is taking into consideration this is a new standalone franchise that has to survive or die on its own.

If you compared it to Spider-Man: No Way Home, the:

• 27th MCU film
• 9th dedicated Spider-Man film
• 6th MCU Spider-Man appearance
• 3rd MCU Spider-Man film

...you are already starting out with a flawed comparison model. And even with this being the 10th standalone Batman-associated movie (if you count LEGO Batman and not include BVS as a shared film) this is the 1st time Robert Pattinson has played Batman.

Just admit it: you wanted to make up some situation to hate on the film, and threw together wild comparisons to justify the hate. But the comparisons are not logical at all. It is like grabbing a grapefruit and proclaiming it failed in its natural design by not being as sweet as an orange.

Joker is a "wild", "illogical" comparison/expectation ?

And I specifically "didn't" compare it to No Way Home. 

-J.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jaydogrules

[▫️]

On 3/21/2022 at 5:20 PM, Jaydogrules said:

I don't know any of that stuff and I don't care. 

-J.

…aaaaand Dawg wins the internet. You lose Bosco. You have lost to a master debater.

[Bosco685]

On 3/21/2022 at 11:05 AM, ▫️ said:

…aaaaand Dawg wins the internet. You lose Bosco. You have lost to a master debater.

[▫️]

On 3/21/2022 at 6:09 PM, Bosco685 said:

I think its sigline worthy.

[Gatsby77]

On 3/21/2022 at 10:16 AM, Jaydogrules said:

I did see that.  Did you see where one of the producers said the all in was $500MM, production, P&A?  Do you think that The Batman cost  significantly less than that?   I was being "conservative" with my $350MM.  Things don't get any better as far as theatrical revenue return is concerned if its budget is actually closer to no time to die.  

And please, do explain how on which galaxy a 2.5x multiple for no time to die's production budget = "well into the black".

-J.

So...if film's only have to be profitable on *theatrical revenue alone,* are you seriously stating that Batman Begins (2.5x production budget theatrically) lost money overall?

If it did, you'd be arguing that somehow Warner Bros. used it as a $100 million+ loss leader on the wild idea that somehow a sequel - which cost even more - would somehow be profitable. 

If it didn't, it must because the so-called post-theatrical "ancillaries" (which amounted to several hundred million in lifetime value) pushed it into the black. Thus warranting not just one, but two sequels.

Which is it?

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/21/2022 at 8:57 AM, Gatsby77 said:

So...if film's only have to be profitable on *theatrical revenue alone,* are you seriously stating that Batman Begins (2.5x production budget theatrically) lost money overall?

If it did, you'd be arguing that somehow Warner Bros. used it as a $100 million+ loss leader on the wild idea that somehow a sequel - which cost even more - would somehow be profitable. 

If it didn't, it must because the so-called post-theatrical "ancillaries" (which amounted to several hundred million in lifetime value) pushed it into the black. Thus warranting not just one, but two sequels.

Which is it?

And Why are we trying to talk about a 17 year old movie that was released in a completely different marketplace? 

-J.

[Gatsby77]

On 3/21/2022 at 12:09 PM, Jaydogrules said:

And Why are we trying to talk about a 17 year old movie that was released in a completely different marketplace? 

-J.

Because it's not.

The only appreciable difference between then and now is the rise of China as a major movie marketplace - but even then the studios reap only ~25% of ticket sales there - so the difference to the overall bottom line - even as a percentage of overall foreign gross - is negligible when discussing total worldwide theatrical AND post-theatrical revenue.

[Jaydogrules]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:27 AM, Gatsby77 said:

Because it's not.

The only appreciable difference between then and now is the rise of China as a major movie marketplace - but even then the studios reap only ~25% of ticket sales there - so the difference to the overall bottom line - even as a percentage of overall foreign gross - is negligible when discussing total worldwide theatrical AND post-theatrical revenue.

Actually the worldwide market has increased exponentially since 2005, not just "only China", which also happens to "only" be the world's largest movie market now.  

-J.

[Bosco685]

$600M worldwide on a $200 production budget by its third weekend? Close down shop. This sounds like it won't even break even.

[kimik]

I actually have to agree with Jaydawg on The Batman being a disappointment box office wise. This would have topped $1B if it was a better movie. And it should have. At a one-day comic show this past weekend the people I talked with either saw and it considered it meh, or were not going to see it based on comments from their friends that did. At this rate it will fall short of BvS. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by kimik

[Bosco685]

On 3/22/2022 at 1:03 AM, kimik said:

I actually have to agree with Jaydawg on The Batman being a disappointment box office wise. This would have topped $1B if it was a better movie. And it should have. At a one-day comic show this past weekend the people I talked with either saw and it considered it meh, or were not going to see it based on comments from their friends that did. At this rate it will fall short of BvS. 

I respect your opinion. But disagree.

How many times did social media and reporting outlets pounce on any pieces Robert Pattinson was the 'Twilight Sparkle Batman' or even when he joked about not working out noting we were getting 'Robin Batman'?

It was worse than the reaction to Batfleck. Like the choice of Pattinson had no logic to it, and was meant to mock Batman lore. 

And with Jaydawg's comparison to Joker, he forgets Joquin Phoenix was the ultimate fancast choice. Once it was revealed he had accepted the role, the excitement was beyond the norm. And no baggage of Twilight or too skinny to play the character assumptions.

Do I think Pattinson is a better Batman than Affleck or Bale? Not at all. He is AN interpretation of Batman. Not the greatest ever. Or even the biggest fancast. But it worked as WOM is strong. Hence with all that was going against it the film has achieved $600M in 3 weeks.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:54 AM, Bosco685 said:

I respect your opinion. But disagree.

Same.

[mytastebud]

I have been a Batman fan and avid reader since 1985. I've read 1000's of Batman related comics. I have a pretty good collection because of when I started. I never did what people do now with buying key 1st appearances and cool covers. I bought to read and collected multiples of issues I liked (up to 50 copies). I've seen the original 43' movie, all the tv shows and all the modern movies.

Of course, this is my opinion, but I loved the movie. I thought Robert pretty much nailed the role. I thought the casting throughout was great. Jeffery Wright was perfect as Gordon. John Turturo and Collin Farrell were also perfect. Paul Dano had some instances of over acting but what a great improvement from the awful Jim Carey. I even enjoyed Catwoman for once. I loved the Detective aspects and the noir vibe mood of the movie, Special effects were awesome. Bullets finally sound like bullets impacts and blows were spot on. I think the way Gotham was depicted was perfect this time: grimy dirty dangerous.

I would very highly recommend especially in Dolby surround or IMAX. I will see it again in the theatre and buy it when its released.

Edited March 22, 2022 by mytastebud

[William-James88]

On 3/22/2022 at 1:03 AM, kimik said:

This would have topped $1B if it was a better movie. 

Not sure it's about how good a movie is. Would that mean that Transformers Dark of the Moon is better than this Batman movie?

 

[William-James88]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:54 AM, Bosco685 said:

Do I think Pattinson is a better Batman than Affleck or Bale? Not at all. 

Interesting. I never bought Affleck in the role. And after rewatching the Dark Knight I can confidently say that I think Pattinson's Batman is better than Bale's. I have a really tough time with how Bale moves his mouth as Batman. I am sure technology has to do with it (a more prohibitive cowl) and Bale is an excellent actor, so he simply did what was asked of him. But with Pattinson, it just seemed to click really well. There is a symbiosis between him and the suit, it feels like a second skin. Not sure he beats Keaton though. I really love Keaton's Batman, it's a very impressive portrayal of the character being both bombastic and grounded. I love his self assurance. His (re)intro in Batman Returns is just phenomenal.

[theCapraAegagrus]

As far as Batmen go, I would put Pattinson at #3. I think that Bale and Affleck are both easily better than him overall, because the Bruce Wayne persona is integral to his character from my POV, and a Year Two Batman lacking that facade grinds my gears.

I think that one of the first things you do when you become a vigilante is develop a clear difference in personalities between your identities.

Edited March 22, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus