Infinite Bronze War Thread 11 11

[CAMERANIAC]

I've always loved the sky coloring on that book.

It is cool looking isn't it? That and the irony of the men being faced with the mines floating on the water and the shark below the surface, are the reasons for me really liking the book.

[Jeffro.]

That's a recurring theme in lots and lots of 70's DC war book covers. If the actual stories were as hopeless as the covers, none of those guys would have lasted 3 minutes in WW 2.

[bronze johnny]

Did any of the war books ever see an increase in circulation at any time during the BA?

 

bronzejohnny

[bigfiver69]

Hey Johnny,

 

I did a little loose review of BA war book circulation data, culled from the legal slugs they would have to publish every year. This is not great data, but it provides a little picture.

 

I contacted DC some years back and asked them for the actual issue by issue circulation numbers for DC war books from the 1970s, and they told me they don't even have that data!!!! Joe Kubert told me the same thing, that during that era he didn't keep any of those numbers. But here's a snapshot:

 

Our Army at War... I don't have the numbers close at hand

 

 

Our Fighting Forces (the info here is spotty, but you can see the trend downwards.)

 

1968 - 295,000 printed 158,300 sold (#118)

1973 - 293,333 printed 147,676 sold (#150)

1976 - 305,000 printed 111,000 sold (#173)

1977 - 291,054 printed 113, 811 sold (#179)

 

G.I. Combat (I haven't looked up all of these yet.)

 

1967 - pub. 421,000 sold 202,100 (#129)

 

 

Weird War Tales

 

1971 - 1974 Not available

1975 - 361,000 printed 158,000 sold (#47)

1976 - 335,000 printed 135,000 sold (#53)

1977 - 308,478 printed 121,697 sold (#63)

1978 - 353,648 printed 113, 513sold (#74)

1979 - 239, 185 printed 85,628 sold (#86)

1980 - 243,857 printed 83,401 sold (#99)

1981 - 226,757 printed 79,078 sold (#111)

1982 - 220,120 printed 67,278 sold (#123)

 

Star Spangled War Stories (Very consistent sales)

 

1968 - 335,000 printed 170,696 sold (#142)

1969 - 317,000 printed 149,516 sold (#150)

1970 - 288,160 printed 136,326 sold (#156)

1971 - 288,333 printed 156,713 sold (#162)

1972 - 288,000 printed 145,869 sold (#168)

1973 - 298,428 printed 143,982 sold (#180)

1974 - 307,217 printed 144,200 sold (#187)

1975 - 329,000 printed 146,000 sold (#199)

 

 

Some interesting trends emerge.... As you can see from the Star Spangled War numbers, the 1969/1970 numbers (which reflect the year previous) are low... less than 50% of print run in 1969 and 1970. But they shoot up pretty hard as soon as the Unknown soldier arrives.

 

Weird War... it just trends downwards year after year. It's amazing that it made it past the implosion in 1978.

 

Shep

[bronze johnny]

Shep,

 

Once again you've made a great contribution to this thread!

 

Now all we need to do is find all those printed copies that were never sold!

 

John

[CAMERANIAC]

Hope you guys don't mind me posting a couple of scans of books that you've probably seen a million times. I have only three war books and these are the other two. The Boards is the only place where I can show any of my books. Sorry for the lousy scand but the books were scanned through about three layers of plastic.!

[HouseofComics.Com]

I'm curious as to whether circulation increased a few thousand when the titles switched over to Sgt. Rock and Unknown Soldier.

 

Always loved the cover to SSWS 180!

[bigfiver69]

Circulation of these books has always been an interest of mine. Glad the info is useful. Someday, I'll find the rest of the numbers.

 

Looking at these numbers, it should come as no surprise that one of the toughest bronze age runs in HG is Weird War #50 to #80. This has been my experience anyway. Enough of the early issues were salted away, and when comic shops exploded in the early 1980s, it seems some stock of later issues were put away. But those implosion-era years? Very tough books. I am still on the hunt for a HG WWT #69... been having real trouble finding one.

 

I think Sgt. Rock's circulation jumped up after it took over its own title, but I think the Unknown Soldier's dropped off (I'll have to dig out the numbers.) One reason for this is undoubtedly the fact that the quality on Sgt. Rock stayed high (Kanigher writing, Redondo art, Kubert editing, great backups) while Uknown Soldier had to deal with an off-form Bob Haney, and some really poor art from the likes of Ayers and Romeo Tanghal.

 

Shep

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

I have to say, I don't like Bob Haney now but as a kid, I really did!

 

I can't stand to reread Brave and the Bolds that were absolute favorites of mine as a kid. I have a feeling I'd have a little easier time rereading my Unknown Soldats.

 

I know some people bag on him, but I really enjoyed the distinctive Taloac art on US too.

[Jeffro.]

while Uknown Soldier had to deal with an off-form Bob Haney, and some really poor art from the likes of Ayers and Romeo Tanghal.

 

Shep

 

 

Pretty much the reason I never tried to collect these.

[bigfiver69]

I have to say, I don't like Bob Haney now but as a kid, I really did!

 

I can't stand to reread Brave and the Bolds that were absolute favorites of mine as a kid. I have a feeling I'd have a little easier time rereading my Unknown Soldats.

 

I know some people bag on him, but I really enjoyed the distinctive Taloac art on US too.

 

I REALLY liked Taloac when Archie Goodwin was editing, and David Michelinie was writing... those were amazing issues. But when he started inking over Ayers, in my mind he went totally downhill.

 

Still, I was buying a lot of those books off the shelves when I was a kid, and they hold a lot of great memories for me.

 

Shep

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

Well guys, I had a nice DC war flashback yesterday. I was at the office sorting all my DC war books (2 conventions plus a batch of new additions necessitated this) and I came across my beater inventory copy of OAAW 244. I had to check it out! Great, great story, stunning art. And yes, as you guys said, the story is fully credited to Heath.

 

Well, then I had to read Sgt. Rock 304, the second Sgt. Rock I ever bought. Awesome! The end of a three-parter plus Kubert art. Just great.

 

Pretty shortly after that, I realized that I had GI Combat 198, the second issue of that title I ever bought. So I read that one too--always loved the tank coming upon a torn up Fox company, staggering in the snow. Always really loved the snow stories.

 

Finally, I came to the first issues I ever bought of SSWS and US. 204 and 205. Yep, right at the title change. I can't be unbiased on these but I didn't have a problem with the scripts and actually liked the art. I think the Ayers/Taloac art is distinctive and kind of cool. I also have to say that as a kid, these US plots were great. Having your pal brainwashed and try to kill you (with Hitler sightings), having to go to Bastogne and inspire the troops to hang on for 48 more hours (another winter story)--YEAH!

[HouseofComics.Com]

Btw, the first tough DC war choice I ever had to make was on a winter Sunday when I could get one comic and it came down to the incredibly distinctive OAAW 300 and GIC 197. I actually picked the GIC, possibly because it had a winter story I really liked. Didn't get a copy of OAAW 300 for another 25 years!

[bigfiver69]

Mmmmmm.... that was a great time to be buying books as a kid.

 

I know it wasn't THE first comic I ever got, but the first I remember buying was Sgt. Rock #308 on a summer road trip. I also remember vividly having a really bad cold, and mom coming home from the drugstore with GI Combat #212. It may seem quaint, but a dollar was a lot of money for a comic book, even in 1977/79.

 

I love looking at those books...

[thirdgreenham]

Nice stories, guys.

 

 

Andy

[HouseofComics.Com]

Would you guys say that the upcoming switch to dollar size was the reason why GIC never changed it's name like OAAW and SSWS did? Ie, because it had a lot of new non-Haunted Tank content, they kept the name?

[bigfiver69]

Marc,

 

That's a really interesting question... but in the end, I think it may have had more to do with editorial control than with character popularity.

 

I think that Joe Kubert really was interested in solidifying the war books and making big dynamic changes. So he would have been behind giving those two characters the marquee (and keep in mind, two characters that he had a HUGE hand in creating.) Murray Boltinoff came a little more from the old-school, Kanigher style of anthology-based books. And of course, over the next few years G.I. Combat saw the aborted creation of characters like Kana the Ninja and The Mercenaries.

 

My view - and this is radical - is that in 1977 they should have collapsed all the five existing war books (OAAW, GIC, OFF, SSWS and Weird War) into two deluxe 100-page dollar books. Our Army War would have had headlined with Sgt. Rock, and the Losers would also have a long-format stories in the back of the book. G.I. Combat would have headlined the Haunted Tank, with a long-format Unknown Soldier story as well. And to fill in the seams, they could have used Weird War stories, Dateline:Frontline stories, Gallery of War tales, USS Stevens stories, and other one-off short format stories. Why you ask?

 

For starters, it would have concentrated more talent into the books. But most importantly, it would (I believe) have kept circulation up over a longer term and kept those books alive (and livelier) longer. As sad as I was when they were all cancelled, most of the war books limped into cancellation. Best of all, it would have kept the books richer, with the opportunity to bring back characters that didn't get much airtime (Blitzkrieg, Tank Killer, Mlle. Marie, Enemy Ace, etc.). The worst thing DC ever did was water down the war line in the late 1970s with Men of War and All Out War... they should have concentrated their resources into making a couple of great books instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

 

Great, thought-provoking question.

Shep

[HouseofComics.Com]

Hmm, I hadn't considered the editor angle. My feeling is more along the lines that these changes are not so much in the editors' purview, but are a little higher up than that. It could've been Kuberts idea but the name changes still need to be approved up top. In the same way, it wasn't Boltinoff's idea to make GIC dollar-sized.

 

My guess is that the reason the title didn't switch names to "The Haunted Tank" is some combination of the switch to dollar size plus the fact that Haunted Tank isn't as dynamic a name for a protagonist as the other two.

 

GIC is a fine name for an anthology book but the trend was more for character-driven names. I think DC would've rather had a title called "Scalphunter" than "Weird Western Tales" at the end.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

A few books courtesy of Bob Storms

 

[Jeffro.]