Is it just me? Sale threads...EBay sales

[NewWorldOrder]

I could cite a number of instances, but I will note one of late as I look though the sales threads for forum buying only and one in particular notes: Don't make me put it on EBay!

 

Really? Don't make you put it on EBay, where if were listed at no reserve you would get no where close to what you are asking from forum buyers?

 

I always assumed Forum boards are where you tried to sell things are bargain prices low enough to cut out things like the EBAY or Comic Links 10% for the middleman.

 

Please put it on EBay and stop trying to rip me off.....

 

I'm thinking about starting my own personal thread of outrageous selling attempts both on EBay ad the boards. Why is it on average that graded books on EBAY seem to be offered at vast premiums to known last sales. I realize this is not always true, but I'll post a few as I see them.

 

I assume you fall into the boardie buyer category of "may I please have your book at 10%+ off price so I gain from the transaction while you the seller does not."

 

Many auctions go for well over what people have them listed here on the boards.

 

[4GEMWORKS]

re is a book that I actually want but can't swallow the price:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-GUN-KID-58-CGC-8-5-OW-W-PAGES-CLASSIC-KIRBY-MONSTER-WESTERN-SUPER-SCARCE/291754055289?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D1c8df7aaeb784d2591b4d48be9fba070%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D291754046753

 

This guy is clever , however,. He e-mails me offering the books at some outrageous price. I tell him I'm not interested at the price and he says he is actually going to keep them. Less than 24 hours later he says he is going to list this along with a TGK59 in 9.0. Hell sell them to me both for "just " $1800.

 

The last GPA sale on a 58 in 9.0 was $400. a 7.5 did sell for $325.Nevertheless the tactics this guy has taken is to tell me he has sold similar copies top CGC borides for what would be very inflated prices making these offers quite competitive. Problem is you can not verify a sale unless it is in public domain, which these were not.

 

But the BIBN is $1300 and the starting bid is $1000.The 59 shown below last had a sale at $305. This ask starts at $650 with an $850 BIN,

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-GUN-KID-59-CGC-9-0-WHITE-PAGES-KIRBY-COVER-AND-ART-HIGHEST-GRADED-SCARCE/291754046753?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Db162006c9d1448f5a4a0d050a8827e5e%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D291754055289%26clkid%3D5179659926094329580&_qi=RTM2247626

 

He jas already dropped the price by $150 or so on the 59 is less than 24 hours. I doubt either will sell at these prices.

 

But these types of sales are clever in that, yes, these books are tough to find, but if you can just get a GPA sale to price the book at 2X the last sale the value of the book and other similar books "appears" to be more valuable.

 

The only true discovery of market value is an auction like Heritage or CLink where the highest bidder sets the price. I view these books as traps to try and draw a guy like me in that really does want them. I just can't swallow the price.

 

 

 

The seller sounds like a bit of a tool, based on how he tried to play you...that'd leave a bad taste in my mouth.

 

It is very hard to figure out pricing on a lot of Marvel westerns.If you just want to look at GPA on this book, you have to consider more than just what GPA shows but also WHERE the books were sold.

 

If the books were sold on eBay and NOT on CC,CL or heritage, you likely are not seeing their fair market value, EVEN if the books were sold via auction style.

 

A book like this...well, virtually any book, actually...will likely get considerably higher bids on CL,CC or Heritage.

 

eBay is not a good selling venue, as far as auctions go.

 

And also, factor in that GPA only shows 4 sales of this book, across the board.

 

Late Atlas & Marvel westerns have been picking up over the past couple years, as they should.The 9.0 that sold for $408 was from 2010....and the other 3 sales in GPA are also all over the place.For those who don;y have GPA, I am posting the 4 sales below.

 

That said, I certainly agree with you in that establishing FMV on a book like this, can really only be done via a CL,CC or Heritage auction.

 

 

 

 

No. 58, Volume 1, 1st print, Marvel Comics/Atlas Comics (1962)

 

Grade

Notes 2014 Avg 2015 Avg 12Mnth Avg 90Day Avg Last Sale

 

[click to add this comic to My Comics]

( 9.0 ) - - - - $408 May-2010

 

[click to add this comic to My Comics]

( 7.5 ) (1) $154 (1) $325 (1) $325 - $325 Dec-2015

 

[click to add this comic to My Comics]

( 7.0 ) - - (1) $300 - $300 Feb-2016

 

[click to add this comic to My Comics]

( 6.5 ) (1) $150 - - - $150 Sep-2014

 

 

None of what you noted here is lost on me. Prices have been going up, especially on Kirby books. And I have to be honest. If this were a Heritage type sale or ComicConnect where auctions get extended by last second bidding and I was making an "informed" decision against anther legitimate bidder, I MIGHT pay more than what is being asked for these books now. But when Somebody starts throwing imaginary competitors at me that I can neither confirm nor deny, I just can't pay the big money.

 

My biggest regret on the book is missing the 7.5. I watched as it was dropped from $600 to $500 and so forth. I think it finally went to best offer and I saw it too late. I thought $325 was too high but was resigned to the higher pricing you noted.

 

Fortunate, aside from my friend HemiGTX, I have the best Kid Colt collection on the boards ad one of the best Two Gun Kids. Ultimately if these prices are driven higher I'll benefit. The books I am missing (5 TGKs are gnawing at me though.

[4GEMWORKS]

I could cite a number of instances, but I will note one of late as I look though the sales threads for forum buying only and one in particular notes: Don't make me put it on EBay!

 

Really? Don't make you put it on EBay, where if were listed at no reserve you would get no where close to what you are asking from forum buyers?

 

I always assumed Forum boards are where you tried to sell things are bargain prices low enough to cut out things like the EBAY or Comic Links 10% for the middleman.

 

Please put it on EBay and stop trying to rip me off.....

 

I'm thinking about starting my own personal thread of outrageous selling attempts both on EBay ad the boards. Why is it on average that graded books on EBAY seem to be offered at vast premiums to known last sales. I realize this is not always true, but I'll post a few as I see them.

 

I assume you fall into the boardie buyer category of "may I please have your book at 10%+ off price so I gain from the transaction while you the seller does not."

 

Many auctions go for well over what people have them listed here on the boards.

 

I have bought a few books without great haggle on the boards and have returned most of them. The grading and pricing combine to be treacherous. I have developed friendships with a few local boardies and some not so local with great collections. Surprisingly, these collectors generally haven't the foggiest idea whether a book is graded right when they buy it. A friend of mine bought a ton of Kid Colts sold as VF or better and after a few years sent them in to get graded. He was in shock over the amount that came back in the 3.0-5.0 range. He never had any idea.

 

I have the benefit of having submitted a couple of thousand books for my personal collection and subsequent turnover to different areas and am lucky enough to have become something of an expert grader.

[4GEMWORKS]

I was asked about how I would "waste" time sending questions to a seller rather than just skipping over the listing and moving on.

 

For some reason I have a proclivity to waste time on occasion. I noted in my last note that most people I have run into do not know if the grades of comics they have bought are correct. I cannot remember the name of the seller anymore, but around 2000 I want to say ( I could be off a couple of years) I was buying tons of high grade Spider-Man. This was before the big advent of pressing and at a time when you could still buy decent raw books.

 

There was an EBay seller with something like 3-4000 positive feed back and not 1 negative. He ran a string of high grade ASMs one day and I ended up buying about 100 books. I got the books and was astonished at how poorly they were graded. I e-mailed the guy and said I thought these were overgrazed. He said that was ridiculous, just look at his feedback.

 

So I made him an offer. I said I would send all his books into CGC and get them graded. If the books came back as he promised I told him I would pay him the then going price for graded books at that grade ( a substantial premium at the time). If they did not come back within 1/2 grade he would owe me the difference between what I paid him and the prevailing price for the book as it graded out. That basically made me whole on grading costs. He readily agreed.

 

Not one single book came back as graded by the seller. Most of the books were in the 5.0 to 7.0 range. These were books sold as VF/NM or better.

 

To his credit the guy sent me back close to $1000 and then asked me never to bid on his books again.

 

But this is what I learned: Somebody that had GLOWING feedback in the thousands did not know how to grade and apparently his customers did not know how to grade either.

 

Nothing has changed since then. What has changed is that valuable books are almost always graded because people probably got tired of paying , lets say $1000 for book "A", getting it graded only to find out later that it was worth only $500. It's no wonder that over 15 years after CGC came out that they still have demand that can double the "normal" turnaround time.

 

The biggest market for rip=offs right now is that 25-$200 range where it is not cost effective to send a book to get graded so your only real option is to buy raw books and hope for the best.

 

 

[the blob]

what is your ebay ID?

[4GEMWORKS]

what is your ebay ID?

 

4gemworks

[revat]

I was asked about how I would "waste" time sending questions to a seller rather than just skipping over the listing and moving on.

 

For some reason I have a proclivity to waste time on occasion. I noted in my last note that most people I have run into do not know if the grades of comics they have bought are correct. I cannot remember the name of the seller anymore, but around 2000 I want to say ( I could be off a couple of years) I was buying tons of high grade Spider-Man. This was before the big advent of pressing and at a time when you could still buy decent raw books.

 

There was an EBay seller with something like 3-4000 positive feed back and not 1 negative. He ran a string of high grade ASMs one day and I ended up buying about 100 books. I got the books and was astonished at how poorly they were graded. I e-mailed the guy and said I thought these were overgrazed. He said that was ridiculous, just look at his feedback.

 

So I made him an offer. I said I would send all his books into CGC and get them graded. If the books came back as he promised I told him I would pay him the then going price for graded books at that grade ( a substantial premium at the time). If they did not come back within 1/2 grade he would owe me the difference between what I paid him and the prevailing price for the book as it graded out. That basically made me whole on grading costs. He readily agreed.

 

Not one single book came back as graded by the seller. Most of the books were in the 5.0 to 7.0 range. These were books sold as VF/NM or better.

 

To his credit the guy sent me back close to $1000 and then asked me never to bid on his books again.

 

But this is what I learned: Somebody that had GLOWING feedback in the thousands did not know how to grade and apparently his customers did not know how to grade either.

 

Nothing has changed since then. What has changed is that valuable books are almost always graded because people probably got tired of paying , lets say $1000 for book "A", getting it graded only to find out later that it was worth only $500. It's no wonder that over 15 years after CGC came out that they still have demand that can double the "normal" turnaround time.

 

The biggest market for rip=offs right now is that 25-$200 range where it is not cost effective to send a book to get graded so your only real option is to buy raw books and hope for the best.

 

 

sadly I'm in the low range you're referring to.

 

But actually, maybe its a good idea.

 

"Hi, I'm interested in this book raw book you have graded at 9.8 or nm/mt. If you send it to be graded and it hits 9.8, I will give you $XXXX for the book (obviously have to make it worth it). If it doesn't hit 9.8 (or whatever min grade), I pay you nothing." of course this takes some amount of trust on both sides, but there are probably some situations where this type of offer would work out.

[4GEMWORKS]

For those that think I am just blowing smoke I intend to throw up a good number of CGC books on Sunday. This will be an example of how you sell books and discover the true value of a book.

 

Yo will find them here:

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/4gemworks/m.html?item=252448570071&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

[4GEMWORKS]

And while I am back:

 

Looking for somebody stupid to buy my book:

 

Four Color 74 (1st Little Lulu) in CGC 4.0

 

4.5 sold 2 years ago for $195. Guide is $315. It can be yours for just $799. I realize there is the offer but: Are they going to accept 60-70% off ask?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marges-Little-Lulu-Four-Color-74-1st-Appearance-CGC-4-0-Cream-2-Off-White-Pages-/232003594645?hash=item36047de995:g:SosAAOSwEjFXfBaK

[4GEMWORKS]

More stupid people wanted:

 

Four Color 411 CGC 9.2

 

Exact same copy sold on Heritage (?).in April for $310. Guide is $140.

 

I guess the thinking goes like this: I bought it on an obscure auction site for $310. It must be worth $898! I'll market it down by 34% to make it look cheap.

 

I should be able to double my money on every CGC book I buy, right?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Dell-Four-Color-411-CGC-9-2-Off-White-to-White-Pages-Mickey-Mouse-Sea-Dog-/351737170869?hash=item51e52b4bb5:g:s04AAOSwB9xXO~Ej

 

Do sellers not think that informed buyers know about Heritage, ComicLink and every other venue that sells quality books?

 

Anyway, this one is a head scratcher to me for sure...

 

 

[4GEMWORKS]

And to think these are all found in my very small universe of activity

 

Four Color 1009 CGC 6.5 Guide is about $70.

 

I really don't want to sell my books. I just like to show them off on EBay. Therefore I will offer my 6.5 at almost double what the last 7.0 sold for. But hey, every book has it's price. If the right stupid person comes along I'll sacrifice my collectibles pride and sell it for a meager $224!

 

But then again, isn't the world eager to pay premium prices for F+ books?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FOUR-COLOR-1009-RIFLEMAN-1-CGC-6-5-UNIVERSAL-GRADE-Dell-1959-Chuck-Connors-/371569582542?hash=item568345e1ce:g:1MEAAOSwwpdW3bmz

 

 

[Buzzetta]

[drotto]

I have not sold anything on the boards yet, but have considered it. I have sold stuff on eBay several times, both slabbed and raw. Most people have felt my grading was fair on raws, and I have never had anyone ask for a price adjustment.

 

So, I do sell on the boards what do people consider fair based on eBay prices. I would certainly charge less then I would on eBay because I do not need to deal with the seller fees. My gut tells my to use actual BIN sales minus 5%, does this sound about right?

[Broke as a Joke]

I have not sold anything on the boards yet, but have considered it. I have sold stuff on eBay several times, both slabbed and raw. Most people have felt my grading was fair on raws, and I have never had anyone ask for a price adjustment.

 

So, I do sell on the boards what do people consider fair based on eBay prices. I would certainly charge less then I would on eBay because I do not need to deal with the seller fees. My gut tells my to use actual BIN sales minus 5%, does this sound about right?

 

I always look at completed ebay sales before I put up a book for sale. I will then price it accordingly. Too many people on here tag books with unrealistic prices hoping to catch a fish it seems. I figure these boards are full of intelligent people that know how to use informational data and I don't intend to try to get over on anyone. Price it fair and business will come. Price it at absurd prices that forces people to PM you for a fair deal and...I don't know I just avoid those in the first place.

[Quicksilver Signs]

I could cite a number of instances, but I will note one of late as I look though the sales threads for forum buying only and one in particular notes: Don't make me put it on EBay!

 

Really? Don't make you put it on EBay, where if were listed at no reserve you would get no where close to what you are asking from forum buyers?

 

I always assumed Forum boards are where you tried to sell things are bargain prices low enough to cut out things like the EBAY or Comic Links 10% for the middleman.

 

Please put it on EBay and stop trying to rip me off.....

 

I'm thinking about starting my own personal thread of outrageous selling attempts both on EBay ad the boards. Why is it on average that graded books on EBAY seem to be offered at vast premiums to known last sales. I realize this is not always true, but I'll post a few as I see them.

 

I assume you fall into the boardie buyer category of "may I please have your book at 10%+ off price so I gain from the transaction while you the seller does not."

 

Many auctions go for well over what people have them listed here on the boards.

 

I have bought a few books without great haggle on the boards and have returned most of them. The grading and pricing combine to be treacherous. I have developed friendships with a few local boardies and some not so local with great collections. Surprisingly, these collectors generally haven't the foggiest idea whether a book is graded right when they buy it. A friend of mine bought a ton of Kid Colts sold as VF or better and after a few years sent them in to get graded. He was in shock over the amount that came back in the 3.0-5.0 range. He never had any idea.

 

I have the benefit of having submitted a couple of thousand books for my personal collection and subsequent turnover to different areas and am lucky enough to have become something of an expert grader.

 

I've had mostly success on buying on these boards, and usually getting a great deal.

[MediumLover]

Cgc comics general bringing people together since 2003

 

[4GEMWORKS]

Every now and then credit is due for outstanding customer service.

 

I have desperately been looking for a Four Color 202 in Fine or better, Nearly impossible.

 

I saw this book and , frankly, I could not see the picture well enough to see much. I won the auction fort about $7 and got the book a few days later. It was horrible, maybe G or G/VG.

 

It was such a small amount that I debated whether to do anything.

 

I finally sent the guy an e-mail and said something like: Not sure your experience but there seem to be significant differences between Overstreet and received book grade. I thought I'd see what your explanation might be.

 

He e-mailed back very quickly and said I know exactly what book you are talking about and it was never better than G/VG. We must have made a mistake. Keep the book I am refunding purchase and shipping. He probably made a copy and paste mistake , which I also have been guilty of.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122013994839

 

Point I guess is: I buy from sellers all the time with great feedback and still I return a good deal of books that I know did not make the cut. When I see a guy say they get great deals and great books, I have no doubt they feel that way. But if those books were ever to get graded, they might find out very quickly that the grades are bloated, either by design or accident.

 

The primary point of this post: To add insult to injury, over graded or not, the comics are then set at prices that are ridiculous even if the book was graded properly (as in the examples shown here with many CGC books).

 

While I have been accused of wasting time (possibly a true accusation) I suppose that maybe I can awaken a more activist mentality among buyers. If more buyers actually challenged prices that are ridiculous, maybe sellers would eventually make some changes.

 

 

 

 

 

[4GEMWORKS]

Apparently a "perfect wrap" to board buyers makes this worth $750 more than the average sales price this year. A White page copy sold for as little as $2800 and as much as $3850. Average in grade this year is about $3000. But board buyers are being treated to an offer at near the highest price ever.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9441338&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

At least you know the grade...

 

Me? i'd take my chances with a lowball bid on the next EBay book that comes up. I'm likely to get it closer to the 3k average.

[FlyingDonut]

Every now and then credit is due for outstanding customer service.

 

I have desperately been looking for a Four Color 202 in Fine or better, Nearly impossible.

 

I saw this book and , frankly, I could not see the picture well enough to see much. I won the auction fort about $7 and got the book a few days later. It was horrible, maybe G or G/VG.

 

It was such a small amount that I debated whether to do anything.

 

I finally sent the guy an e-mail and said something like: Not sure your experience but there seem to be significant differences between Overstreet and received book grade. I thought I'd see what your explanation might be.

 

He e-mailed back very quickly and said I know exactly what book you are talking about and it was never better than G/VG. We must have made a mistake. Keep the book I am refunding purchase and shipping. He probably made a copy and paste mistake , which I also have been guilty of.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122013994839

 

Point I guess is: I buy from sellers all the time with great feedback and still I return a good deal of books that I know did not make the cut. When I see a guy say they get great deals and great books, I have no doubt they feel that way. But if those books were ever to get graded, they might find out very quickly that the grades are bloated, either by design or accident.

 

The primary point of this post: To add insult to injury, over graded or not, the comics are then set at prices that are ridiculous even if the book was graded properly (as in the examples shown here with many CGC books).

 

While I have been accused of wasting time (possibly a true accusation) I suppose that maybe I can awaken a more activist mentality among buyers. If more buyers actually challenged prices that are ridiculous, maybe sellers would eventually make some changes.

 

 

 

 

 

That listing has huge scans with a magnifying glass feature on the scans that allows you to zoom in at 400% magnification, and you spent $6.75 for it. The book isn't in Fine. It can be seen from the giant scans - you've already spent $6.75 in your time.

[blazingbob]

The last 9.6 with white pages sold for $3350 so make that a $400 premium. Previous 9.6 with white pages sold for $3850.

 

Not sure why you are throwing this board seller under the bus.

 

To show how great Ebay is?