Failed board transaction.

[awakeintheashes]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

 

I recently contacted a board seller and negotiated some terms. I asked if he could include the shipping in the asking price and if he could help mark down the book. We went back and forth a bit but in the end he AGREED, so I sent payment.

 

Soon after, he refunded the payment saying that he couldn't go through with the transaction because his wife was upset about doing something dishonest. Yes... the wife excuse again. He also said that he would proceed if he could indicate the full value of the book. So I thought about it and since I was partly invested in this deal I said okay, let's proceed. But now he has reneged on the deal again saying that his wife is all stress out about it.

 

He keeps saying he'll pay me the PayPal exchange rate that I incurred if the Board moderators think he should, but I'll eventually use the US funds so I'm not actually asking for any compensation. I just want him to follow through with the deal.

 

I've had people on eBay renege on deals before but never on the boards. Is this a common thing here? Am I over reacting by even posting this? I'm not out to "get" any one and I'm happy to leave things as they are but I just find it very annoying.

 

Thank god that I still wear the pants...that I'm still king of the castle...that I still have a modicum of manhood...that my wife isn't a controlling and I never have to flex control in the first place.

 

I'd be humiliated to send that as an excuse for backing out of a deal.

[Vger7]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

This is not a new thing... I'm surprised you find it surprising? I think the seller was anticipating this reaction. Looks like he was right.

 

[Silver Surfer]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

 

I recently contacted a board seller and negotiated some terms. I asked if he could include the shipping in the asking price and if he could help mark down the book. We went back and forth a bit but in the end he AGREED, so I sent payment.

 

Soon after, he refunded the payment saying that he couldn't go through with the transaction because his wife was upset about doing something dishonest. Yes... the wife excuse again. He also said that he would proceed if he could indicate the full value of the book. So I thought about it and since I was partly invested in this deal I said okay, let's proceed. But now he has reneged on the deal again saying that his wife is all stress out about it.

 

He keeps saying he'll pay me the PayPal exchange rate that I incurred if the Board moderators think he should, but I'll eventually use the US funds so I'm not actually asking for any compensation. I just want him to follow through with the deal.

 

I've had people on eBay renege on deals before but never on the boards. Is this a common thing here? Am I over reacting by even posting this? I'm not out to "get" any one and I'm happy to leave things as they are but I just find it very annoying.

 

Was it the X-Men 1?

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

 

[MustEatBrains]

You should not have requested he declare a lower value.

 

Once you ultimately relented and said you would proceed with him declaring full value seller should have gone through IMO. The wife story at this point is just a smoke screen for him not wanting to sell if what you say is accurate.

 

There is a place to discuss this as others have stated in another thread, not in CG.

 

 

Is this a common thing here? - Obviously, No.

 

Am I over reacting by even posting this? Yes and No.

 

 

 

 

[revat]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

I know there's more to this, but here's how it reads to some people:

 

You made an offer, which included an illegal element which was known to both you and the seller.

Seller knowingly agreed to terms, including the illegal element.

Seller thinks about it more, gets cold feet, wants to back out citing the illegality as his reasoning, asks to make it legal.

You accepted.

Seller thinks about it more, wondering if one should even sell comics to someone who will willingly violate the law and asks others to do so. Then seller backs out.

 

I don't feel like he's trying to screw the OP, but I think there might be SOME concern about whether customs checks or holds ALL packages going to the OP in the event some malfeasance is discovered in OTHER packages. Or that the OP is willing to break the law over a few bucks (and ask others to do so) screw over the government, what if they're willing to break the law to screw over a seller over a few bucks?

 

Should the prospective seller have thought things over more carefully initially? Probably. But I personally think its reasonable to have doubts and back out.

 

Note: I don't think any of us are perfect buyers or sellers, and at some point in life EVERYONE has tried to cut a corner or too, with mixed or blurry ethical considerations. But I hope most people can understand how the overtness of the actions here would make someone else uncomfortable to the point of backing out of a sale completely.

 

 

[Doohickamabob]

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

(snip)

+1 on all you wrote.

 

[Vger7]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

I know there's more to this, but here's how it reads to some people:

 

You made an offer, which included an illegal element which was known to both you and the seller.

Seller knowingly agreed to terms, including the illegal element.

Seller thinks about it more, gets cold feet, wants to back out citing the illegality as his reasoning, asks to make it legal.

You accepted.

Seller thinks about it more, wondering if one should even sell comics to someone who will willingly violate the law and asks others to do so. Then seller backs out.

 

I don't feel like he's trying to screw the OP, but I think there might be SOME concern about whether customs checks or holds ALL packages going to the OP in the event some malfeasance is discovered in OTHER packages. Or that the OP is willing to break the law over a few bucks (and ask others to do so) screw over the government, what if they're willing to break the law to screw over a seller over a few bucks?

 

Should the prospective seller have thought things over more carefully initially? Probably. But I personally think its reasonable to have doubts and back out.

 

Note: I don't think any of us are perfect buyers or sellers, and at some point in life EVERYONE has tried to cut a corner or too, with mixed or blurry ethical considerations. But I hope most people can understand how the overtness of the actions here would make someone else uncomfortable to the point of backing out of a sale completely.

 

 

 

That sounds rational. Thanks for the input. It's annoying but no harm done.

[revat]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

I know there's more to this, but here's how it reads to some people:

 

You made an offer, which included an illegal element which was known to both you and the seller.

Seller knowingly agreed to terms, including the illegal element.

Seller thinks about it more, gets cold feet, wants to back out citing the illegality as his reasoning, asks to make it legal.

You accepted.

Seller thinks about it more, wondering if one should even sell comics to someone who will willingly violate the law and asks others to do so. Then seller backs out.

 

I don't feel like he's trying to screw the OP, but I think there might be SOME concern about whether customs checks or holds ALL packages going to the OP in the event some malfeasance is discovered in OTHER packages. Or that the OP is willing to break the law over a few bucks (and ask others to do so) screw over the government, what if they're willing to break the law to screw over a seller over a few bucks?

 

Should the prospective seller have thought things over more carefully initially? Probably. But I personally think its reasonable to have doubts and back out.

 

Note: I don't think any of us are perfect buyers or sellers, and at some point in life EVERYONE has tried to cut a corner or too, with mixed or blurry ethical considerations. But I hope most people can understand how the overtness of the actions here would make someone else uncomfortable to the point of backing out of a sale completely.

 

 

 

That sounds rational. Thanks for the input. It's annoying but no harm done.

 

I hope it helps.

 

For better or for worse, there's a pretty wide range of opinions about customs declarations, paypal fees, media mail, and how strictly adhered to the rules are or should be.

 

To me the wife excuse sounds a bit lame (albeit plausible), but that doesn't mean the reasoning behind those concerns lack legitimacy or are inherently untrue

[Johnny U]

You had me at falsifying official documents.

 

 

lol

 

 

[Vger7]

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

I know there's more to this, but here's how it reads to some people:

 

You made an offer, which included an illegal element which was known to both you and the seller.

Seller knowingly agreed to terms, including the illegal element.

Seller thinks about it more, gets cold feet, wants to back out citing the illegality as his reasoning, asks to make it legal.

You accepted.

Seller thinks about it more, wondering if one should even sell comics to someone who will willingly violate the law and asks others to do so. Then seller backs out.

 

I don't feel like he's trying to screw the OP, but I think there might be SOME concern about whether customs checks or holds ALL packages going to the OP in the event some malfeasance is discovered in OTHER packages. Or that the OP is willing to break the law over a few bucks (and ask others to do so) screw over the government, what if they're willing to break the law to screw over a seller over a few bucks?

 

Should the prospective seller have thought things over more carefully initially? Probably. But I personally think its reasonable to have doubts and back out.

 

Note: I don't think any of us are perfect buyers or sellers, and at some point in life EVERYONE has tried to cut a corner or too, with mixed or blurry ethical considerations. But I hope most people can understand how the overtness of the actions here would make someone else uncomfortable to the point of backing out of a sale completely.

 

 

 

That sounds rational. Thanks for the input. It's annoying but no harm done.

 

I hope it helps.

 

For better or for worse, there's a pretty wide range of opinions about customs declarations, paypal fees, media mail, and how strictly adhered to the rules are or should be.

 

To me the wife excuse sounds a bit lame (albeit plausible), but that doesn't mean the reasoning behind those concerns lack legitimacy or are inherently untrue

 

Indeed it does. As soon as he brought his wife into the conversation I started to roll my eyes. Aside from all this he does sound like a nice guy so what you're saying does make sense.

 

 

[fifties]

I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

 

I recently contacted a board seller and negotiated some terms. I asked if he could include the shipping in the asking price and if he could help mark down the book. We went back and forth a bit but in the end he AGREED, so I sent payment.

 

Soon after, he refunded the payment saying that he couldn't go through with the transaction because his wife was upset about doing something dishonest. Yes... the wife excuse again. He also said that he would proceed if he could indicate the full value of the book. So I thought about it and since I was partly invested in this deal I said okay, let's proceed. But now he has reneged on the deal again saying that his wife is all stress out about it.

 

 

I haven't sold to international buyers on eBay for awhile, but it seemed to be common practice for a third or so of them asking for me to indicate a lower value than what the true sale was for. NP here, it's their country & customs.

 

In fact, some eBay sellers would provide a disclaimer stating that they would not alter customs values, in their item description.

 

You seem to be getting admonished from some board members because you are trying to *gasp* do something illegal. Screw 'em, it's your hard-earned money; if they wanna be such goodie-goodies, let them send you the difference to pay the higher customs rate (bet you get no takers).

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

I'm aware that some people have a full and frank relationship with their spouses, and talk about and share everything under the sun. But discussing the merits of customs label declarations on a comic book sale with the wife? Sorry but that's pathetic. Sounds like a cop out and a full scale attack of seller's remorse to me.

[Artboy99]

 

 

 

As a Canadian, there are 2 additional things that most of us keeps an eye on. The exchange rate and cross boarder duty. I try to convert funds at optimal times/rates knowing that PayPal tends to be quite high and I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

So you ask a stranger to lie on an official document...

 

Yah I think this would fall into the category of 'probably better not to have made this public even though technically I may have been sort of screwed a little'.

 

I know there's more to this, but here's how it reads to some people:

 

You made an offer, which included an illegal element which was known to both you and the seller.

Seller knowingly agreed to terms, including the illegal element.

Seller thinks about it more, gets cold feet, wants to back out citing the illegality as his reasoning, asks to make it legal.

You accepted.

Seller thinks about it more, wondering if one should even sell comics to someone who will willingly violate the law and asks others to do so. Then seller backs out.

 

I don't feel like he's trying to screw the OP, but I think there might be SOME concern about whether customs checks or holds ALL packages going to the OP in the event some malfeasance is discovered in OTHER packages. Or that the OP is willing to break the law over a few bucks (and ask others to do so) screw over the government, what if they're willing to break the law to screw over a seller over a few bucks?

 

Should the prospective seller have thought things over more carefully initially? Probably. But I personally think its reasonable to have doubts and back out.

 

Note: I don't think any of us are perfect buyers or sellers, and at some point in life EVERYONE has tried to cut a corner or too, with mixed or blurry ethical considerations. But I hope most people can understand how the overtness of the actions here would make someone else uncomfortable to the point of backing out of a sale completely.

 

 

 

That sounds rational. Thanks for the input. It's annoying but no harm done.

 

I hope it helps.

 

For better or for worse, there's a pretty wide range of opinions about customs declarations, paypal fees, media mail, and how strictly adhered to the rules are or should be.

 

To me the wife excuse sounds a bit lame (albeit plausible), but that doesn't mean the reasoning behind those concerns lack legitimacy or are inherently untrue

 

Indeed it does. As soon as he brought his wife into the conversation I started to roll my eyes. Aside from all this he does sound like a nice guy so what you're saying does make sense.

 

 

Just FYI: Value declaration.

 

You should request to fully declare the proper value of your shipped item.

Why?

1. Insurance. Insurance only covers the declared value. If something bad happens like the parcel gets damaged/ lost you are screwed unless the full value was declared.

2. Legal. it is against the law to falsify information, you don't want to mess with Canada Customs. Canada Customs can FORCE you to provide proof of purchase before they release your item, especially if they open it to inspect and find something they know is worth more than declared value.

[RockMyAmadeus]

For better or for worse, there's a pretty wide range of opinions about customs declarations, paypal fees, media mail, and how strictly adhered to the rules are or should be.

 

 

Customs declarations are the law. Not paying your legally required customs is theft. Do people have a "wide range of opinions" about theft? Of course. Does that wide range make it not theft? Nope.

 

Paypal is a for-profit corporation that operates a service for a fee. Using that service means you pay that fee, under their terms. Circumventing those fees contrary to their terms is theft.

 

There's no grey areas, here, you either pay what you're supposed to, or don't. It's like being sort of pregnant. You either are, or you are not.

 

Media mail, on the other hand, is subject to USPS DMM regulations that remain officially unclarified. There is a reasonable argument to be made in this situation.

 

It's like I'm a big ol' tabby, and you just tossed a sexy ball of catnip across the floor.

 

 

[Doohickamabob]

You seem to be getting admonished from some board members because you are trying to *gasp* do something illegal. Screw 'em, it's your hard-earned money; if they wanna be such goodie-goodies, let them send you the difference to pay the higher customs rate (bet you get no takers).

It's also unethical -- you're asking somebody to deliberately lie on a form. Many people who enter a transaction are uncomfortable being asked to lie as part of the transaction. Even if it's considered an inconsequential lie (to some), it's still lying, and believe it or not there are people who try to go through life being honest in their words and deeds. I don't think that makes anybody a "goodie-goodie" (shouldn't that term have been retired from your vocabulary when you were a teenager?), it just means they prefer to be able to walk away from a transaction without feeling they've compromised themselves somehow.

[LordRahl]

I'm not sure why but people seem to be glossing over the fact that the seller did in fact do something that is against board rules and usually is probation list worthy.

 

Did the OP do something unethical by asking to forge official documents? Yes. However, first the seller agreed to that forging. Then after reconsidering (which was probably wise) he backed out of the deal. However the OP decided to still buy the book with the correct customs value, the seller is still backing out. At the end of the day, the seller agreed to the OP's terms and should go through with the sale, especially given that his concerns over doing something illegal were alleviated.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I often ask if the seller is able to indicate a low value to help with customs. Seller will reply yay or nay, at which point, I may or may not continue with the purchase.

 

I recently contacted a board seller and negotiated some terms. I asked if he could include the shipping in the asking price and if he could help mark down the book. We went back and forth a bit but in the end he AGREED, so I sent payment.

 

Soon after, he refunded the payment saying that he couldn't go through with the transaction because his wife was upset about doing something dishonest. Yes... the wife excuse again. He also said that he would proceed if he could indicate the full value of the book. So I thought about it and since I was partly invested in this deal I said okay, let's proceed. But now he has reneged on the deal again saying that his wife is all stress out about it.

 

 

I haven't sold to international buyers on eBay for awhile, but it seemed to be common practice for a third or so of them asking for me to indicate a lower value than what the true sale was for. NP here, it's their country & customs.

 

In fact, some eBay sellers would provide a disclaimer stating that they would not alter customs values, in their item description.

 

You seem to be getting admonished from some board members because you are trying to *gasp* do something illegal. Screw 'em, it's your hard-earned money; if they wanna be such goodie-goodies, let them send you the difference to pay the higher customs rate (bet you get no takers).

 

 

Orrrrr....he can mannup and pay the taxes that enable him to benefit from the nation of which he is a citizen.

 

Why would anyone pay his fees that he is legally obligated to pay?

 

Don't get me wrong...I'm not condemning anyone, here. If defrauding customs, and, by extension, your fellow citizens, is your thing, just own it. Be transparent about it, so people can make up their own minds about whether and how they want to deal with you.

 

That's reasonable, right...?

 

 

 

[revat]

For better or for worse, there's a pretty wide range of opinions about customs declarations, paypal fees, media mail, and how strictly adhered to the rules are or should be.

 

 

Customs declarations are the law. Not paying your legally required customs is theft. Do people have a "wide range of opinions" about theft? Of course. Does that wide range make it not theft? Nope.

 

Paypal is a for-profit corporation that operates a service for a fee. Using that service means you pay that fee, under their terms. Circumventing those fees contrary to their terms is theft.

 

There's no grey areas, here, you either pay what you're supposed to, or don't. It's like being sort of pregnant. You either are, or you are not.

 

Media mail, on the other hand, is subject to USPS DMM regulations that remain officially unclarified. There is a reasonable argument to be made in this situation.

 

It's like I'm a big ol' tabby, and you just tossed a sexy ball of catnip across the floor.

 

 

haha we just needed to make sure you hit your quarterly quota.

 

I generally follow the rules, not because I think they're right, or morality, or that I'm scared of whatever penalties, its just because I don't want the hassle. Between watching Curb Your Enthusiasm reruns and playoff hockey (Go Sharks!), I don't have time to take calls from ultra polite Canadian customs agents or go to the post office to pickup rejected media mail.

[thehumantorch]

The seller agreed to a deal - twice. The second deal was entirely legal and the seller should complete the transaction.

[Vger7]

I'm not sure why but people seem to be glossing over the fact that the seller did in fact do something that is against board rules and usually is probation list worthy.

 

Did the OP do something unethical by asking to forge official documents? Yes. However, first the seller agreed to that forging. Then after reconsidering (which was probably wise) he backed out of the deal. However the OP decided to still buy the book with the correct customs value, the seller is still backing out. At the end of the day, the seller agreed to the OP's terms and should go through with the sale, especially given that his concerns over doing something illegal were alleviated.

 

There's no argument about the legalities of my request. I fully respect that some people are not comfortable with it. Everyone has their own code that they live by... so to each his own.

 

I'm also not pushing for the seller to be put on any “list”. I was feeling frustrated by the situation and I just wanted to get some input. I think Revat has it right and I'm satisfied with that.