Daniel Craig done as James Bond? Who is up next? 2 2

[delekkerste]

Looks like Peter Cushing with Christopher Lee's hair from those outstanding cinematic masterpieces, you mean?

 

[jaybuck43]

I can't remember if she's still alive but in the books 008 was a woman.

 

Given that precedent, it's far easier for me to swallow a female Bond-type than a lot of the other PC reboots we've seen lately.

 

As far as I can see/recall, the only time 008 was alluded to being a woman was in the 1980s James Bond role-playing game (which I fondly remember from my youth!) In both the books and films, 008 is a man.

 

All 5 of the 00s agents referenced in the Fleming novels were male. There were female 00s added in other media later on (the 45 year old mandatory retirement age was unofficially scrapped as well by later authors).

 

Also, different agents have been assigned the same 00 number, thus contradicting this notion that James Bond has always been the codename for whoever is assigned the 007 number. So, I would have a hard time accepting a female 007 - if they want to make a female 00 a key supporting character or even give her a spin-off movie, I'd support that wholeheartedly, but James Bond 007 is a defined, established character and not just a number.

 

You know, I wonder if he had intended some 00 agents to be female. His Bond adventurous are based off his real life experience in the British Military during WW2. During that time, he was the liaison with SOE, which had something like 60+ female special operatives who were spies. But you are correct, every named 00 agent was male.

 

However that doesn't shoot down the "James Bond" theory. I can't recall any Ian Fleming novel where a 00 was named, and replaced with a new named 00.

[Lucky Baru]

That's a great picture. He looks like a cross between Timothy Dalton and Peter Cushing.

 

Like Peter Cushing from those bad vampire movies with Christopher Lee. The receding hair line is harsh in that drawing.

Looks like Peter Cushing with Christopher Lee's hair from those outstanding cinematic masterpieces, you mean?

 

Not sure if that was meant as a joke but I laughed when I read that. That's some funny imagery right there.

 

Count Dooku and Count Dracula in one life time!

[delekkerste]

However that doesn't shoot down the "James Bond" theory. I can't recall any Ian Fleming novel where a 00 was named, and replaced with a new named 00.

 

To paraphrase a line from Mean Girls, "stop trying to make James Bond is just a codename happen. It's not going to happen!"

 

First, let's start with the obvious. Bond is James Bond's family name, born to the Scottish father Andrew Bond and Swiss mother Monique Delacroix. That is Bond's real name.

 

Second, how ridiculous would it be to go around introducing yourself as James Bond to people who already met the last James Bond? Not everyone is in the intelligence biz and knows that someone has assumed Bond's former cover. When the new Bond goes to the restaurant or to M's club and tells the maitre d' that he's James Bond, imagine the unnecessary confusion and attention that would attract (let alone meeting all of Bond's former contacts around the world). Plus, it would make it easy for enemies to impersonate your agents if you were changing faces but not the names.

 

Third, I think it's very much implied in both the books and films that there is no such use of codenames. For one thing, it would be confusing. When M refers to a double-0 as "Fairbanks" or "Trevelyan", he is only referring to one person. Nobody "became" Bill Fairbanks, 002 after he was killed by Scaramanga.

 

Fourth, it's already been established in the film canon that new 00s inherit the number, but not the name. The aforementioned Bill Fairbanks was 002, but a new 002 ("John") died in the opening Gibraltar training exercise sequence in The Living Daylights.

 

Fifth, other media (e.g., comics, videogames) have also given new names to old 00 numbers, further destroying this myth. That makes sense - the names change, but the numbers stay constant so we don't eventually end up with 00214. Keeping the names constant doesn't make sense for anybody other than the SJW crowd.

 

So, no, "James Bond", "Bill Fairbanks", "Alec Trevelyan", "Bill Timothy", etc. are not just codenames. That is just a lame excuse someone invented to justify casting a non-traditional Bond. Terrible idea. If they want to do that, just reboot the series and tweak the origin. Idris Elba gets adopted by Andrew Bond and the like. Having him take over the name James Bond makes zero sense even in the fictional world of 007.

[delekkerste]

You know, I wonder if he had intended some 00 agents to be female. His Bond adventurous are based off his real life experience in the British Military during WW2. During that time, he was the liaison with SOE, which had something like 60+ female special operatives who were spies. But you are correct, every named 00 agent was male.

 

Just because there were female agents doesn't mean they were 00s, especially not back in Fleming's era. Though, it would make perfect sense for MI6 to have developed them later as roles for men and women became less stratified over time.

[jaybuck43]

The James Bond is a Code Name theory has nothing to do with being able to cast a non traditional Bond. Here is a great explanation of it from Cracked a few years back.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-that-actually-make-great-movies-better/

 

#6. "James Bond" Is Not a Man, But a Code Name

 

When the 007 franchise launched in 1962, Sean Connery was 32 when he received his license to kill. That was almost 50-years ago, and James Bond has aged like a fine Beaujolais spiked with antifreeze. How is the same 30-something special agent who fought the Cold War-era Russians now taking on post-9/11 terrorism?

 

The Theory:

 

There has been a theory among fans that there is no one single James Bond, but that "James Bond" is a codename passed on from one agent to the next as each retires (just as the titles of M and Q pinball from agent to agent). The theory explains the agelessness of Bond--note that Daniel Craig's Bond became 11 years younger whereas Judi Dench's M aged by four years.

 

This also explains how James Bond's personality changes dramatically from actor to actor. For example, in one film you have Timothy Dalton's Bond burning a man alive (around the 9:00 mark). Pop in another DVD and you see Roger Moore's Bond is doddering around in a clown costume.

 

The more you look into it, the more it makes sense. George Lazenby's Bond had his wife murdered in the last film he appeared in, so fans could assume that his 007 retired out of grief. Timothy Dalton's Bond went rogue and was kicked out of MI6. Pierce Brosnan's final outing ended with Bond being abandoned by British intelligence. Next movie, there's a new Bond in the tuxedo and the old one is presumably on a beach somewhere collecting a government pension.

 

Hell, even the guy who directed Die Another Day believed this theory. Wait, that was the Bond movie with the invisible car, right? Spoon that guy.

 

Why Does it Make the Film Better?

 

We like the realism that this theory gives the Bond franchise, particularly since 007 movies have the propensity to fly off the rails every few years (see: Moonraker, Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist, that invisible car).

 

On the downside, it throws a real monkey wrench in Cracked's patent pending "James Bond Immortality Diet," in which we advise you to hydrate solely with Gordon's and Lillet and to bed at least three secretaries daily.

[Gatsby77]

Hah - maybe it was the James Bond role playing game, then. As that was definitely in my role-playing rotation in middle school.

 

And the Q Manual for the game was amazing - a decent encyclopedia of cars and their various attributes, guns & their various attributes, etc.

 

At the end of the day, I'm not nearly the literary purist you are, given that I think Fleming wasn't that great a writer (for instance, the 80s novels by Gardner easily put his to shame).

 

Also, the Cold War's over -- no reason not to update Bond for the times.

 

Hell, today's MI:6 agents are probably more likely forensic accountants and/or computer hackers than assassins.

 

And I also think the film and book universes are different - so an Idris Elba reboot, for example, wouldn't be as out-of-place for me on film.

 

Biggest example of shock I recall was seeing The Living Daylights when I was 11 years old, and he meets up with Felix Leiter to parachute into the wedding.

 

I'd read Live and Let Die already, and knew that Leiter lost an arm & a leg in that story -- so how could he have all his limbs in The Living Daylights?

[delekkerste]

The James Bond is a Code Name theory has nothing to do with being able to cast a non traditional Bond. Here is a great explanation of it from Cracked a few years back.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-that-actually-make-great-movies-better/

 

#6. "James Bond" Is Not a Man, But a Code Name

 

When the 007 franchise launched in 1962, Sean Connery was 32 when he received his license to kill. That was almost 50-years ago, and James Bond has aged like a fine Beaujolais spiked with antifreeze. How is the same 30-something special agent who fought the Cold War-era Russians now taking on post-9/11 terrorism?

 

The Theory:

 

There has been a theory among fans that there is no one single James Bond, but that "James Bond" is a codename passed on from one agent to the next as each retires (just as the titles of M and Q pinball from agent to agent). The theory explains the agelessness of Bond--note that Daniel Craig's Bond became 11 years younger whereas Judi Dench's M aged by four years.

 

This also explains how James Bond's personality changes dramatically from actor to actor. For example, in one film you have Timothy Dalton's Bond burning a man alive (around the 9:00 mark). Pop in another DVD and you see Roger Moore's Bond is doddering around in a clown costume.

 

The more you look into it, the more it makes sense. George Lazenby's Bond had his wife murdered in the last film he appeared in, so fans could assume that his 007 retired out of grief. Timothy Dalton's Bond went rogue and was kicked out of MI6. Pierce Brosnan's final outing ended with Bond being abandoned by British intelligence. Next movie, there's a new Bond in the tuxedo and the old one is presumably on a beach somewhere collecting a government pension.

 

Hell, even the guy who directed Die Another Day believed this theory. Wait, that was the Bond movie with the invisible car, right? Spoon that guy.

 

Why Does it Make the Film Better?

 

We like the realism that this theory gives the Bond franchise, particularly since 007 movies have the propensity to fly off the rails every few years (see: Moonraker, Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist, that invisible car).

 

On the downside, it throws a real monkey wrench in Cracked's patent pending "James Bond Immortality Diet," in which we advise you to hydrate solely with Gordon's and Lillet and to bed at least three secretaries daily.

 

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

 

I read this article a while back and forgot how stupid it was. :doh:

 

First, James Bond is still young for the same reason Peter Parker and Vietnam vet Flash Thompson aren't collecting Social Security. It's fiction.

 

Second, different actors play James Bond; that name doesn't get taken over by a younger actor. What, George Lazenby retired and then Sean Connery's Bond came back? And then went on an unsanctioned revenge mission to kill Blofeld at the beginning of Diamonds are Forever? Why, if it wasn't "his" wife that died? And why did Roger Moore's Bond visit Tracy's grave at the beginning of For Your Eyes Only (and the KGB's Bond file - not files - said that he was married once and his wife was killed in The Spy Who Loved Me)? And how about when Felix Leiter's bride Della throws her garter at James in License to Kill and says he's next, at which point Timothy Dalton's Bond declines, and Felix alludes to Tracy's death? Tracy is not named, but alluded to in two of the Brosnan films as well.

 

THE ONLY PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION IS THAT THEY'RE ALL THE SAME BOND.

 

Third, I suppose that "Felix Leiter" is just a codename as well since he has been played by numerous different actors? "Moneypenny" too? Clearly it's different actors playing the different roles, not different characters altogether assuming old names. What about Blofeld in SPECTRE? Obviously the Craig films are a reboot with a new Blofeld that has no relation to the old one - it's not just a young guy assuming the James Bond mantle and another guy assuming the Blofeld mantle.

 

Fourth, this still has everything to do with setting the stage to cast a non-traditional Bond.

 

JAY, I'M AFRAID YOUR LICENSE TO KILL HAS BEEN REVOKED!!

[jaybuck43]

As a peace offering, wanna go halvsies on a Palm Springs vacation home? The house from Diamonds are Forever hit the market. Just can't tell the wives about Bambi and Tumper...

[delekkerste]

As a peace offering, wanna go halvsies on a Palm Springs vacation home? The house from Diamonds are Forever hit the market. Just can't tell the wives about Bambi and Tumper...

 

 

Got a link to the Palm Springs home?

 

 

[Lucky Baru]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/04/12/palm-springs-home-that-appeared-in-james-bond-film-goes-on-sale/

 

10.5 Million

[jaybuck43]

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/pad-717605-elrod-ultimate.html

 

Enjoy the slideshow Bank owns it. I bet our negotiation skills combined, we can do a lot better than their asking price.

[jaybuck43]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/04/12/palm-springs-home-that-appeared-in-james-bond-film-goes-on-sale/

 

10.5 Million

 

Naw Bank has it now, it's listed for 8 million currently.

[Lucky Baru]

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016/04/12/palm-springs-home-that-appeared-in-james-bond-film-goes-on-sale/

 

10.5 Million

 

Naw Bank has it now, it's listed for 8 million currently.

 

You should jump on it. What a deal!

[delekkerste]

That is a beautiful house.

[delekkerste]

Also, the Cold War's over -- no reason not to update Bond for the times.

 

And I also think the film and book universes are different - so an Idris Elba reboot, for example, wouldn't be as out-of-place for me on film.

 

Biggest example of shock I recall was seeing The Living Daylights when I was 11 years old, and he meets up with Felix Leiter to parachute into the wedding.

 

I'd read Live and Let Die already, and knew that Leiter lost an arm & a leg in that story -- so how could he have all his limbs in The Living Daylights?

 

I was fine with the way Bond was updated through the years, much as Peter Parker/Spider-Man have been updated despite his character being tied to key events in the distant past. In any case, they did a hard reboot with Casino Royale, which I was fine with in principle (heck, I wish Marvel would do a true hard reboot on its convoluted universe as well); I just objected that they left out/downplayed so many of the key elements of the other films to the point that it just looked like a British Bourne rip-off at times.

 

The film and book universes are clearly different, and I'm fine with each actor bringing their own strengths to the table in interpreting the character. Roger Moore's Bond rarely showed the traits of Fleming's Bond (though, he wasn't always the lightweight joker that some make him out to be - remember how he ruthlessly dispatches with the guy on the roof in TSWLM and how he man-handles Scaramanga's mistress in TMWTGG, for example) and I still like most of his films nonetheless. I probably wouldn't have objected as much to Craig if the last three films didn't suck so badly! I thought he was fine overall in the excellent Casino Royale as an updated, Ultimate-universe version of 007 - it's the other films that have spoiled my overall view of his tenure as Bond.

 

I've only read 2 of the Gardner novels that I can remember (Licence Renewed and For Special Services). The latter I read in the 2000s (not so long that I don't remember) and I was pretty underwhelmed by it. Any better ones that you would recommend? I did read Kingsley Amis' Colonel Sun from 1968 and a couple of the more recent novels - Devil May Care and Solo, which I thought were all decent. Anyone read Carte Blanche from a few years ago? It's apparently features a very updated version of James Bond, but, like the recent Bond films, reads like a generic action novel as opposed to being very Bond-like from what I've heard. I'll probably check it out eventually regardless, though.

 

Live and Let Die was my favorite of the Bond novels; the film version...not so much. At least they were able to utilize some of the book elements in License to Kill, though.

[Lucky Baru]

 

Live and Let Die was my favorite of the Bond novels; the film version...not so much. At least they were able to utilize some of the book elements in License to Kill, though.

 

Come on, that movie has JW Pepper in it. The boat chase and the scene around the 2:18 mark make that movie :

 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Lucky Baru

[jaybuck43]

 

Best Bond Boat Chase, hands down.

[Lucky Baru]

 

Best Bond Boat Chase, hands down.

 

Maybe but no JW Pepper. A secret agent? For whose side? Makes me laugh every time I view that movie.

[delekkerste]

Come on, that movie has JW Pepper in it.

 

JW Pepper. :doh:

 

He makes an unwelcome cameo in The Man With the Golden Gun as well. :doh: :doh:

 

Mr. Big's death scene (where they clearly used an inflatable doll) in LALD has got to be one of the more ridiculous ones in the series: