Why I Don't Like The Slab Phenom

[fifties]

Recently, in the thread about the new CGC case, I took some heat, and I thought I might like to explain my position a bit clearer.

 

I buy collectible comic books in order to read them, both for light enjoyment, and to re-live some of that experience I went through in the 1950's.

 

I recognize that slabbing high dollar books does have a value, especially concerning those who spend hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands on what might be considered investments, or certainly luxury level collectibles for those who are relatively well-heeled. They are obviously not purchasing these books to read them, so their endeavor is quite different from mine.

 

To get to my point, here is a book I bought on eBay last year, represented as being G;

 

 

Here is another of the same issue, currently listed;

 

 

My book has brighter inks, and no staining. On the other hand, it has tears, writing, and the cover is loose. In this example, the slabbed copy seems somewhat superior, and comparatively would reduce the grade on mine to perhaps G-, Fa-Gd, or Fa+.

 

Let's go even more so, and suggest that it drops mine by a full grade, to Fa, as compared to the slabbed copies' G. As such, one might expect the price difference to be double, going by Overstreet pricing standards. Mine cost $38, so logically the other should be available for about $76, either as an asking, BIN, or final hammer price.

 

But because it's in that shiny plastic case, the seller is asking $174.00. I know that we should never value based on an asking price, given that completed listings searches on practically anything are full of unsold asking prices, so it's hardly a basis for valuation.

 

The thrust of this is simply that since it is slabbed, the seller automatically deduces that he can get a pile of money more than if it weren't, thereby decreasing the availability of affordable readers. Yes, one copy doesn't mean anything, but the mindset here is the problem.

 

Now someone may come along and post, "yes, but CGC provided an accurate 3rd party grade, and it was obviously tighter than your seller's comparitively overgraded book". They would be missing the point;

 

between those two books, regardless of assigned grade, is there really a valuation spread of $38 to $174? Of course not.

 

 

 

 

[Aman619]

First and foremost, sellers often put silly prices on books. And often, for stabbed books, add their expenses into the sale price. That's the hidden tax on slabbed books: shipping , slab fee, shipping. It adds up. And factor in pressing and. $38 book needs to be priced at much more just to break even.

 

And rightly or wrongly a seller will seek to not lose money when selling so they place a higher sticker price on it. They can always knock 20% off so they want to start high.

[thecopperagekids]

You're paying for an impartial third party grade and a resto check,

 

That is a solid $100-$125 book in 2.0...not $174.The seller does not want to sell the book, or he has the patience to wait an indefinite amount of time til he finds a buyer at above FMV

 

Last sale was in 6/2014...$96.

 

Not that GPA should be read as biblical verse.... but extrapolating on the odd number, my guess is that was an auction sale, not a BIN...which tend to be a bit higher, on these sorts of Fox books.

 

If you break it down to the grading/shipping costs, you would have paid just about as much (or less) for the slabbed 2.0 that sold for $96, as you would have for the raw "GD" copy that you bought last year for $36.

 

Your copy looks to have some heavy spine wear.

 

It would be folly to even try to throw out grades based on the pics posted.

 

That can be done, with *some* accuracy on 9.8 modern candidates with cardstock covers....not GA books with all of the possible issues that 70 year old paper is by nature plagued by, in varying degrees.

 

On your personal copy, I see some tears that look to transverse the spine, beyond the detached cover...which leads me to guess that the structural integrity of the spine is very low.

 

If you were to post up FC,BC scans in addition to lengthwise pics of the book from all angles...

 

Well, even than, the most critically honest assesment anyone could possibly make is "it could be a 1.0 to 2.0....

 

That is not the kind of crapshoot that most collectors care to take.

 

My opinion...or literally, anyone else's opinion, ...in the context of buying or selling a book online is a step removed from being inherently worthless....you never know the grade of a book ( assuming you are a competent grader to begin with),intil you can physically inspect the book.

 

I sure as hell would not have sold that book for $36, raw or not.You got a very good deal on that book.

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat-Man_America]

It all boils down to what you like to collect. If you're a high grade or pedigree collector, there are sound reasons for seeking third party graded books. Oh, and BTW, not every high grade collector views comics strictly as investments. I grew up loving comics in NM/M condition. Admittedly, I was a little obsessive about it and remain so to this day.

 

With that in mind, there are lots of alternatives for reading pleasure, from buying low grade under-copies and HC archive editions to (perish the thought!) PD photocopies sold on eBay for $8 to $10 a pop that are perfectly satisfactory (the only thing missing is the pulp paper feel and smell, ...who knows, for comic fans with allergies that might be a blessing).

 

I'm not saying that my POV on collecting ...or anyone else's for that matter... invalidates your own perspective (which I respect), but it comes down to different strokes for different folks. Whatever cranks your engine will drive your passion. Collecting can run on cheap gas, rocket fuel, or any mixture in between.

[fifties]

First and foremost, sellers often put silly prices on books. And often, for stabbed books, add their expenses into the sale price. That's the hidden tax on slabbed books: shipping , slab fee, shipping. It adds up. And factor in pressing and. $38 book needs to be priced at much more just to break even.

 

And rightly or wrongly a seller will seek to not lose money when selling so they place a higher sticker price on it. They can always knock 20% off so they want to start high.

Thank you for providing the fact that valid costs cause a slabbed book to have to be offered for more, so as not to lose money.

 

However that simply adds to my point that slabbed books are less affordable than those in the raw that are similar, regardless of the reason.

 

You're paying for an impartial third party grade and a resto check,

 

That is a solid $100-$125 book in 2.0...not $174.

 

If you break it down to the grading/shipping costs, you would have paid just about as much (or less) for the slabbed 2.0 that sold for $96, as you would have for the raw "GD" copy that you bought last year for $36.

 

Your copy looks to have some heavy spine wear.

 

On your personal copy, I see some tears that look to transverse the spine, beyond the detached cover...which leads me to guess that the structural integrity of the spine is very low.

 

Well, even than, the most critically honest assesment anyone could possibly make is "it could be a 1.0 to 2.0....

Forgive me for truncating your post, but to answer, why would one need an impartial third party grade and a resto check on a reader grade book? And why have to pay the CGC layer of cost for it? And as I had stated, I would be willing to grade my book as a Fa, a full grade lower than his, but a difference of $136 between them, it is not.

 

With that in mind, there are lots of alternatives for reading pleasure, from buying low grade under-copies and HC archive editions to (perish the thought!) PD photocopies sold on eBay

There are no alternatives for someone who wants to re-live experiences he had in the '50's, my friend; none.

 

Have you personally ever smelled the interior of an EC comic book fresh off the news stand? If not, and with all respect, you may not understand (by that example) the drift here.

[Cat-Man_America]

 

With that in mind, there are lots of alternatives for reading pleasure, from buying low grade under-copies and HC archive editions to (perish the thought!) PD photocopies sold on eBay

There are no alternatives for someone who wants to re-live experiences he had in the '50's, my friend; none.

 

Have you personally ever smelled the interior of an EC comic book fresh off the news stand? If not, and with all respect, you may not understand (by that example) the drift here.

 

Sorry, most of my ECs are lowly Gaines File Copies, too protected to receive a proper newsstand education.

 

You obviously know a lot less about me than I know about you from your response. That's fine, I still respect your choices. Carry on, old chap.

[jimbo_707]

In my mind it doesn't make sense to slab a copy of any book in the GOOD range unless it's a key. Maybe the seller of that book was hoping for a much higher grade.

I've seen plenty of $300 books on eBay priced at $3,000, so it's fairly normal for eBay sellers to think their books are worth much more than they actually are.

[drbanner]

Holy time-warp Batman, it's like the ebay comics chat board in 1999!

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

Some very interesting points in this thread, and food for thought.

Personally (and I've said this before) I like to read 'em, smell 'em, hold 'em. I do own slabs (not many) but I buy a fair few and crack'em. For me raw is always king. Could not care less about investment. I only sell books to fund other purchases.

For me comic books are a passion, a friend and something to be cherished.

[nearmint]

I think you're looking at it backwards. Your raw copy is devalued at auction because potential buyers don't know if it's complete and unrestored. The hammer price on the slabbed copy is the true market value because the buyer is informed. A buyer who is uncertain of the product they are bidding on will always bid less.

 

True market value should always be based on an informed customer base.

[woowoo]

Recently, in the thread about the new CGC case, I took some heat, and I thought I might like to explain my position a bit clearer.

 

I buy collectible comic books in order to read them, both for light enjoyment, and to re-live some of that experience I went through in the 1950's.

 

I recognize that slabbing high dollar books does have a value, especially concerning those who spend hundreds/thousands/tens of thousands on what might be considered investments, or certainly luxury level collectibles for those who are relatively well-heeled. They are obviously not purchasing these books to read them, so their endeavor is quite different from mine.

 

To get to my point, here is a book I bought on eBay last year, represented as being G;

 

 

Here is another of the same issue, currently listed;

 

 

My book has brighter inks, and no staining. On the other hand, it has tears, writing, and the cover is loose. In this example, the slabbed copy seems somewhat superior, and comparatively would reduce the grade on mine to perhaps G-, Fa-Gd, or Fa+.

 

Let's go even more so, and suggest that it drops mine by a full grade, to Fa, as compared to the slabbed copies' G. As such, one might expect the price difference to be double, going by Overstreet pricing standards. Mine cost $38, so logically the other should be available for about $76, either as an asking, BIN, or final hammer price.

 

But because it's in that shiny plastic case, the seller is asking $174.00. I know that we should never value based on an asking price, given that completed listings searches on practically anything are full of unsold asking prices, so it's hardly a basis for valuation.

 

The thrust of this is simply that since it is slabbed, the seller automatically deduces that he can get a pile of money more than if it weren't, thereby decreasing the availability of affordable readers. Yes, one copy doesn't mean anything, but the mindset here is the problem.

 

Now someone may come along and post, "yes, but CGC provided an accurate 3rd party grade, and it was obviously tighter than your seller's comparitively overgraded book". They would be missing the point;

 

between those two books, regardless of assigned grade, is there really a valuation spread of $38 to $174? Of course not.

 

 

 

 

I give you 58.00 and than i can smell that great smell.

[Mr. Lady Luck]

I think "that old comic book smell" should be taken into account when grading books.

[Paul © ® ⚽️💙™]

I think "that old comic book smell" should be taken into account when grading books.

 

I agree, it's a pity you can't bottle it

[IngelsFan]

As a collector who has been at this for over 30 years at the "serious" level, and another 10 before that as a reader/casual collector, I was against the concept of slabbing at the outset. Didn't make sense to me. I also collected coins when I was younger, and I "got" slabbing coins, since there is no inside content, and therefore you see the entire coin in the slab, but didn't think that the practice would transfer well to this hobby.

 

I too LOVE the smell of old comics. My first loves were Moldoff Flash covers and midgrade ECs. This is before the Gaines file copies were available for sale, and to a country kid in Alabama I was happy with ANY GA comic I could get my hands on.

 

I started buying on eBay in 1999. I loved that I could be on a ship on deployment in the middle of nowhere and still buy comics that would be waiting for me when I got home. After getting burned more times than I care to count in those early days, I shifted almost exclusively to original art, where condition is much less of an issue since each page or cover is one of a kind.

 

Last year, after buying a few slabs here and there, I decided to take a "break" from original art and get back into comics. I have in that short time purchased around 100 GA books, a lot of which were slabbed. Buying online is cheaper and less hassle than going to a con, less pressure than going to a store, and slabbing adds an extra level of security that makes it easier to decide whether to pull the trigger. It makes it easier to negotiate price, because you have your "comps" even on rare books that with few slabbed copies (which in itself can be an indicator of scarcity in certain instances and can help in factoring what I'm willing to pay).

 

I really don't "get" slabbing a book that you know will grade less than a 3.0, except for a resto check, but to each their own.

 

My point? I was a pretty big skeptic of slabbing when it first rolled out, but as this hobby has evolved, and with Internet sales now being such a huge part of the hobby, I think that it is a welcome and even needed asset.

 

Oh, but smelling those old pages on a raw book is still pure bliss for me!

[Cat-Man_America]

Holy time-warp Batman, it's like the ebay comics chat board in 1999!

 

Alas, fifties still parties like it's 1999 while ignoring the fact that Prince has been slabbed for months.

[Cat-Man_America]

As a collector who has been at this for over 30 years at the "serious" level, and another 10 before that as a reader/casual collector, I was against the concept of slabbing at the outset. Didn't make sense to me. I also collected coins when I was younger, and I "got" slabbing coins, since there is no inside content, and therefore you see the entire coin in the slab, but didn't think that the practice would transfer well to this hobby.

 

I too LOVE the smell of old comics. My first loves were Moldoff Flash covers and midgrade ECs. This is before the Gaines file copies were available for sale, and to a country kid in Alabama I was happy with ANY GA comic I could get my hands on.

 

I started buying on eBay in 1999. I loved that I could be on a ship on deployment in the middle of nowhere and still buy comics that would be waiting for me when I got home. After getting burned more times than I care to count in those early days, I shifted almost exclusively to original art, where condition is much less of an issue since each page or cover is one of a kind.

 

Last year, after buying a few slabs here and there, I decided to take a "break" from original art and get back into comics. I have in that short time purchased around 100 GA books, a lot of which were slabbed. Buying online is cheaper and less hassle than going to a con, less pressure than going to a store, and slabbing adds an extra level of security that makes it easier to decide whether to pull the trigger. It makes it easier to negotiate price, because you have your "comps" even on rare books that with few slabbed copies (which in itself can be an indicator of scarcity in certain instances and can help in factoring what I'm willing to pay).

 

I really don't "get" slabbing a book that you know will grade less than a 3.0, except for a resto check, but to each their own.

 

My point? I was a pretty big skeptic of slabbing when it first rolled out, but as this hobby has evolved, and with Internet sales now being such a huge part of the hobby, I think that it is a welcome and even needed asset.

 

Oh, but smelling those old pages on a raw book is still pure bliss for me!

 

Agree with everything you've stated.

[jimjum12]

As a collector who has been at this for over 30 years at the "serious" level, and another 10 before that as a reader/casual collector, I was against the concept of slabbing at the outset. Didn't make sense to me. I also collected coins when I was younger, and I "got" slabbing coins, since there is no inside content, and therefore you see the entire coin in the slab, but didn't think that the practice would transfer well to this hobby.

 

I too LOVE the smell of old comics. My first loves were Moldoff Flash covers and midgrade ECs. This is before the Gaines file copies were available for sale, and to a country kid in Alabama I was happy with ANY GA comic I could get my hands on.

 

I started buying on eBay in 1999. I loved that I could be on a ship on deployment in the middle of nowhere and still buy comics that would be waiting for me when I got home. After getting burned more times than I care to count in those early days, I shifted almost exclusively to original art, where condition is much less of an issue since each page or cover is one of a kind.

 

Last year, after buying a few slabs here and there, I decided to take a "break" from original art and get back into comics. I have in that short time purchased around 100 GA books, a lot of which were slabbed. Buying online is cheaper and less hassle than going to a con, less pressure than going to a store, and slabbing adds an extra level of security that makes it easier to decide whether to pull the trigger. It makes it easier to negotiate price, because you have your "comps" even on rare books that with few slabbed copies (which in itself can be an indicator of scarcity in certain instances and can help in factoring what I'm willing to pay).

 

I really don't "get" slabbing a book that you know will grade less than a 3.0, except for a resto check, but to each their own.

 

My point? I was a pretty big skeptic of slabbing when it first rolled out, but as this hobby has evolved, and with Internet sales now being such a huge part of the hobby, I think that it is a welcome and even needed asset.

 

Oh, but smelling those old pages on a raw book is still pure bliss for me!

 

..... and those who prefer raw can always deslab. As a collector who prefers raw, I personally have no problem with getting a raw copy cheaper, however. I think Fifties started the thread to explain his personal position, as I have seen him confronted and insulted a few times when he touts his preference for raws. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[29dukedog]

I think "that old comic book smell" should be taken into account when grading books.

 

Once CGC figured out how to quantify odor, they could even include that rating on the label. "Musky 7.5".

[Cat-Man_America]

I think "that old comic book smell" should be taken into account when grading books.

 

It's addictive alright. Perhaps it should be investigated as a controlled substance by the FDA.

[N e r V]

Having grown up haunting old book stores the smell has never bothered me but I do know some collectors of books/comics who dislike that smell.

 

Either way you should always be aware of your surroundings when stopping to smell things.

 

Just sayin' ...