SUPERMAN #1 SALE?

[sfilosa]

thank you for your opinions,can i get a few more on the action1 9.4 vs 9.6

 

 

9.6. easy.

 

Heck, I don't care about Pressing, I'm sure as heck NOT GOING TO CARE about something that NO LONGER affects the book in ANYWAY.

 

There is absolutely ZERO LOGIC to any argument that says restoration that has been removed should have ANY EFFECT on the value of the book. It's not like a color touch is cancer and can GROW BACK. It's gone and the defect that it was covering up, is still there (and probably a slightly larger defect).

 

And to really sum it up, I DON'T buy RESTORED because there is a STIGMA attached to them. Therefore, I don't have a feel for there current or future value and I don't like that feeling. As I said before, is a 9.4 book with slight color touch, really less like it originally was printed then an 8.0? NO, but the market thinks so I go with the flow.

[Aman619]

so is the stinkgma removed along with the restoration? Or does the book still smell.... "funny"

[Sal]

i would take the 9.6 in less time than it would take to write the check. a 9.6 W absolutely trumps a 9.4 OWW, regardless of what happened to the book before I got it, all other things (QP, gloss, visual appeal, etc) being equal

[Shield]

I think if I were in the position to be able to afford such a book, I'd probably take the 9.6 as well. Those rich guys buy things for bragging rights! Now, personally, if I were to pick between two 9.4's with identical registration, gloss, paper quality, etc. I'd take the 9.4 that had never been touched by anyone.

 

Remember that Marvel Mystery #33 from the Nic Cage collection that went from a 8.0 and a 9.2? Would you rather have another 9.2 that no one would debate anything had ever been removed from, or the Nick Cage 8.0/9.2 copy? I see everyone's point here.

 

FFB - I usually agree 100 percent with you, but I think you're a bit out of line calling Action1kid's opinion a "knee-jerk, hillbilly IQ attitude towards restoration removal". I think he's made some good points here. Also, to add fuel to the "breast" analogy - there would be scarring after the "removal" of the breast augmentation, so it'd never be "exactly" like before.

[FFB]

I think if I were in the position to be able to afford such a book, I'd probably take the 9.6 as well. Those rich guys buy things for bragging rights! Now, personally, if I were to pick between two 9.4's with identical registration, gloss, paper quality, etc. I'd take the 9.4 that had never been touched by anyone.

 

Remember that Marvel Mystery #33 from the Nic Cage collection that went from a 8.0 and a 9.2? Would you rather have another 9.2 that no one would debate anything had ever been removed from, or the Nick Cage 8.0/9.2 copy? I see everyone's point here.

 

Are you saying that the book went from an 8.0 Restored to a 9.2 unrestored? Clearly the restoration removal didn't cause the increase in grade. The book was probably pressed afterward. Pressing is restoration and should be disclosed. On this we agree.

 

The question would be, would you take another 8.0 with a 1/2 inch tear or an 8.0 that used to be a Restored 9.2 with a 1/2 inch tear that was sealed with a piece of archival tape, but then had the tape removed? I would take either one if no trace of the restoration remained and all other things were equal.

 

FFB - I usually agree 100 percent with you, but I think you're a bit out of line calling Action1kid's opinion a "knee-jerk, hillbilly IQ attitude towards restoration removal". I think he's made some good points here.

 

I was talking to Tim and I was kidding.

 

Also, to add fuel to the "breast" analogy - there would be scarring after the "removal" of the breast augmentation, so it'd never be "exactly" like before.

 

It wasn't my analogy anyway. It was Aman's. I was no more satisfied by the analogy than you apparently were.

 

When you reverse certain kinds of restoration, there often won't be any scarring at all (like the archival tape removal example). And when there is "scarring" left over, it is factored into the unrestored grade.

[rob_react]

so it'd never be "exactly" like before.

 

But that's not implied in having restoration removed. Restoration removal is just that, removal of the restoration. It's not a reset button to the magical land of "before."

[FFB]

so it'd never be "exactly" like before.

 

But that's not implied in having restoration removed. Restoration removal is just that, removal of the restoration. It's not a reset button to the magical land of "before."

 

Now that you've perfected your Cootie Detection Technology, do you think you could get started on development of a reset button to the magical land of "before"? I need one.

[BradleyX2]

Also, to add fuel to the "breast" analogy - there would be scarring after the "removal" of the breast augmentation, so it'd never be "exactly" like before.

 

It wasn't my analogy anyway. It was Aman's. I was no more satisfied by the analogy than you apparently were.

 

 

Let me try a different anaolgy to explain it to Tim, aman, and the others.

 

You wake up one morning and find that, during the night, someone has TP'd the trees in your yard.

 

Of course, this makes your yard look very unattractive, so you clean up the mess. Once it's cleaned up, is the yard still a mess? Is your house now less desirable because the trees were once covered in toilet paper, even though no one could ever know? When you sell the house years later, will you have to disclose the fact that for one night, there was toilet paper in the trees?

[action1kid]

hi/

im closing this topic finally with this statement.....

if a CGC CERTIFIED BOOK with a small amount of restoration on it has been UNRESTORED back to its original position[since in this case you cannot hide the fact that it has be returned to unrestored condition]it is only ethically correct to list it on the book that this has been done[on the label]....why do this you ask , if you already knew that it was restored originally??

because there are always new people entering into this hobby,both knowledgible,but mostly unknowledgible and they do not have the advantage of knowing[AS WE DO AS SEASONED COLLECTORS]the pros and cons of this particular subject,and they should know these facts so like us they can make up there own minds on this subject..if you want this hobby to grow and gain the confidence of new collectors you had better take full discloser seriously...

so with the unrestoring of the mile high superman 1, i say to you as a new collector to the hobby....is the mile high superman #1 unrestored[you say properly YES]

is the mile high superman#1 totally unrestored? you say properly YES],than i say to you HAS ANY WORK EVER BEEN DONE TO THE BOOK?..... are you gonna say no????THAT IS THE POINT!!!! work has been done to the book!yes,its totally unrestored! but work has been done to the book!! YOU CANNOT TELL THE NEW HOBBIEST THAT WORK HAS NEVER BEEN DONE TO THE BOOK BEFORE if he asks you that[unless you believe in buyer beware[if he dosnt ask, theres nothing wrong with not telling the truth.....if you want to gain the confidence of new collectors in this hobby,so the price of all our books can go up over time,i suggest you consider FULL discloser,not telling them of the unrestoring is PARTIAL DISCLOSER.....

look up the word FULL DISCLOSER..meaning everything that has been done,not most of the things, EVERYTHING...

 

SUBJECT FOR ME IS CLOSED! THANK YOU FOR WELCOMING ME TO THE BOARD

[rob_react]

hi/

im closing this topic finally with this statement.....

 

Closing a topic here on the CGC forums? Good luck with that.

[FFB]

hi/

im closing this topic finally with this statement.....

if a CGC CERTIFIED BOOK with a small amount of restoration on it has been UNRESTORED back to its original position[since in this case you cannot hide the fact that it has be returned to unrestored condition]it is only ethically correct to list it on the book that this has been done[on the label]....why do this you ask , if you already knew that it was restored originally??

because there are always new people entering into this hobby,both knowledgible,but mostly unknowledgible and they do not have the advantage of knowing[AS WE DO AS SEASONED COLLECTORS]the pros and cons of this particular subject,and they should know these facts so like us they can make up there own minds on this subject..if you want this hobby to grow and gain the confidence of new collectors you had better take full discloser seriously...

so with the unrestoring of the mile high superman 1, i say to you as a new collector to the hobby....is the mile high superman #1 unrestored[you say properly YES]

is the mile high superman#1 totally unrestored? you say properly YES],than i say to you HAS ANY WORK EVER BEEN DONE TO THE BOOK?..... are you gonna say no????THAT IS THE POINT!!!! work has been done to the book!yes,its totally unrestored! but work has been done to the book!! YOU CANNOT TELL THE NEW HOBBIEST THAT WORK HAS NEVER BEEN DONE TO THE BOOK BEFORE if he asks you that[unless you believe in buyer beware[if he dosnt ask, theres nothing wrong with not telling the truth.....if you want to gain the confidence of new collectors in this hobby,so the price of all our books can go up over time,i suggest you consider FULL discloser,not telling them of the unrestoring is PARTIAL DISCLOSER.....

look up the word FULL DISCLOSER..meaning everything that has been done,not most of the things, EVERYTHING...

 

SUBJECT FOR ME IS CLOSED! THANK YOU FOR WELCOMING ME TO THE BOARD

 

No one is saying that it's ok to LIE about the fact that the book was once restored. If someone asks about a book having been restored before, I think the right thing to do is say "Yes, but all of the restoration was completely reversed and is gone now." My point is that once the restoration has been completely removed and the book is sitting in a blue LABEL slab, the seller does not have an affirmative obligation to disclose the fact that it once had some restoration but no longer does.

[action1kid]

YOU KNOW,,THERE ARE AN AWEFUL LOT OF MILE HIGH KEY BOOKS WITH SMALL AMOUNTS OF RESTORATION ON EM[sUPS1,MORE FUN 52,BAT1,ADV40,ALL STAR 3,,ETC,ETC,BUT I GUESS IN A YEAR OR TWO ALL 22000 OF THE BOOKS WILL ALL BE UNRESTORED AGAIN BACK TO THERE ORIGINAL CONDITION,,,,SO WE WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE RESTORATION ISSUE ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE RESTORED BOOKs IN THE MARKET ,EVERYONE WILL HAVE UNRESTORED BOOKS.....I CANT WAIT TO UNRESTORE MY DETECTIVE 1 GOOD PLUS WITH HEAVY RESTORATION BACK TO AN UNRESTORED BOOK ,AND YOU THINK NO ONE IS GONNA WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT..DARN WELL THEY WILL..

 

END OF SUBJECT.......

[FFB]

YOU KNOW,,THERE ARE AN AWEFUL LOT OF MILE HIGH KEY BOOKS WITH SMALL AMOUNTS OF RESTORATION ON EM[sUPS1,MORE FUN 52,BAT1,ADV40,ALL STAR 3,,ETC,ETC,BUT I GUESS IN A YEAR OR TWO ALL 22000 OF THE BOOKS WILL ALL BE UNRESTORED AGAIN BACK TO THERE ORIGINAL CONDITION,,,,SO WE WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE RESTORATION ISSUE ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE RESTORED BOOKs IN THE MARKET ,EVERYONE WILL HAVE UNRESTORED BOOKS.....I CANT WAIT TO UNRESTORE MY DETECTIVE 1 GOOD PLUS WITH HEAVY RESTORATION BACK TO AN UNRESTORED BOOK ,AND YOU THINK NO ONE IS GONNA WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT..DARN WELL THEY WILL..

 

END OF SUBJECT.......

 

Turn off your caps lock key. Sheesh.

[FFB]

By the way, if you really own a Detective #1 with extensive restoration, there is no way you can "unrestore" it. The book has been taken apart and probably cleaned. It has certainly been pressed while disassembled. Sorry, but that one's not a candidate for restoration removal.

[action1kid]

darn,,id love to answer that, but i promised to end the subject!

[rob_react]

YOU KNOW,,THERE ARE AN AWEFUL LOT OF MILE HIGH KEY BOOKS WITH SMALL AMOUNTS OF RESTORATION ON EM[sUPS1,MORE FUN 52,BAT1,ADV40,ALL STAR 3,,ETC,ETC,BUT I GUESS IN A YEAR OR TWO ALL 22000 OF THE BOOKS WILL ALL BE UNRESTORED AGAIN BACK TO THERE ORIGINAL CONDITION,,,,SO WE WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE RESTORATION ISSUE ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MORE RESTORED BOOKs IN THE MARKET ,EVERYONE WILL HAVE UNRESTORED BOOKS.....I CANT WAIT TO UNRESTORE MY DETECTIVE 1 GOOD PLUS WITH HEAVY RESTORATION BACK TO AN UNRESTORED BOOK ,AND YOU THINK NO ONE IS GONNA WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THAT..DARN WELL THEY WILL..

 

END OF SUBJECT.......

 

By the way, you're just being silly here since you obviously know as well as any of us that not EVERY book that is restored can have the work removed safely. Trying to "end the subject" when making such an obviously exaggerated statement isn't going to get you very far.

[action1kid]

the detective 1 i have has considerble touch up along the spine,, which i certainly consider extensive,,that is the only resto on the intire book,but its all along the spine but in a consolidated area and i certainly consider that extensive, i think its possible to reverse that...IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE INTIRE BOOK TO BE EXTENSIVE RESTORATION...you are incorrect! a chunk can be missing just out of the cover alone and fixing that is EXTENSIVE RESTORATION,while the rest of the book is fine...an example of that would be the action 1 good 2.5 sold in the heritage auction last year,it was unrestored,,the book was good but a big chunk was missing out of the cover alone,,if that chunk were fixed that would certainly be an extensive job,,it certainly isnt moderate..

[FFB]

the detective 1 i have has considerble touch up along the spine,, which i certainly consider extensive,,that is the only resto on the intire book,but its all along the spine but in a consolidated area and i certainly consider that extensive, i think its possible to reverse that...IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THE INTIRE BOOK TO BE EXTENSIVE RESTORATION...you are incorrect! a chunk can be missing just out of the cover alone and fixing that is EXTENSIVE RESTORATION,while the rest of the book is fine...an example of that would be the action 1 good 2.5 sold in the heritage auction last year,it was unrestored,,the book was good but a big chunk was missing out of the cover alone,,if that chunk were fixed that would certainly be an extensive job,,it certainly isnt moderate..

 

I feel as though you're either not paying attention to what people are saying to you or you just don't understand the issue completely. Or perhaps you just enjoy making up straw man arguments so that you can proclaim them "incorrect" and then tear them down.

 

No one said that restoration has to be the entire book to be extensive. We aren't discussing the difference between extensive/moderate/slight restoration. We are talking about reversibility.

 

As to your Detective #1 -- is it slabbed? If so, what do the notes say about the restoration?

 

If it is not slabbed, do you have the restoration certificate showing that your book was not taken apart? What does the restoration report say? Was there any support added to the staples or other parts of the spine? I doubt that color touch is all that was done to your book if they had to go over a good portion of the spine.

[tth2]

And there is no Cootie Shot for a comic that has been restored. Once it's been restored, it's always got the filthy, demonic stench of restoration emanating from its very pages and no removal is ever going to change that.

 

Of course, I heard that handling restored comics is one way to transmit Ebola and the danger doesn't go away once the restoration has been removed. That's definitely something to consider.

See now Rob, you're just engaging in reverse snobbery on the whole restoration issue. Some of us don't like restoration (setting aside the de-restoration issue for the moment). It's just a personal preference, although there are some rational reasons behind it. If you want to depict us as irrational elitists, then so be it. But it's funny to hear this from you since you were the one always repeating the mantra of "What I've got is cool and what you've got sucks".

[FFB]

And there is no Cootie Shot for a comic that has been restored. Once it's been restored, it's always got the filthy, demonic stench of restoration emanating from its very pages and no removal is ever going to change that.

 

Of course, I heard that handling restored comics is one way to transmit Ebola and the danger doesn't go away once the restoration has been removed. That's definitely something to consider.

See now Rob, you're just engaging in reverse snobbery on the whole restoration issue. Some of us don't like restoration (setting aside the de-restoration issue for the moment). It's just a personal preference, although there are some rational reasons behind it. If you want to depict us as irrational elitists, then so be it. But it's funny to hear this from you since you were the one always repeating the mantra of "What I've got is cool and what you've got sucks".

 

Hey, don't be trying to drive away one of my collaborators with your guilt-trip tactics!