Will OA prices ever surpass comic book prices ?

[delekkerste]

They are ALL great covers. However, a big part of how much people pay is how important they are in the world of comics and their own continuity and nostalgia. No one's buying Kirby's "Still Life of Mangoes" for $1 million after all, right?

 

Forget about ASM #1, I wanna know if this Kirby will hit $1 million:

[comix4fun]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

[comix4fun]

And Mitch paid $1,801.25 for that Action 1 in 1973. He was a mad man! But not really paying multiples of guide for the keys was/is a pretty standard thing.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4820642

 

 

[Peter G]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

 

Putting aside your point about all of these OA covers hitting the market at the same time.

 

And putting aside the speculation on whether any of these OA covers could reach 1 million today.

 

Now I am curious, what do you reckon the Dentist copy of Action 1 would be if it were to come to market today ?

 

 

 

[Peter G]

And Mitch paid $1,801.25 for that Action 1 in 1973. He was a mad man! But not really paying multiples of guide for the keys was/is a pretty standard thing.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4820642

 

 

Ok, I stand correct on the $500 amount. Thanks for digging that article up.

 

Regardless, your comment about "paying multiples of guide for the keys was/is a pretty standard thing" really is very insightful on your thought process.

 

I think the OA market of recent has shown that people are entering "crazy numbers" in their bids to be the topper bidder at any cost too.

 

Mitch's own rule from that article is that - "YOU CAN NEVER OVERPAY FOR A MASTERPIECE!"

 

That rule applies to OA too imho

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

 

Putting aside your point about all of these OA covers hitting the market at the same time.

 

And putting aside the speculation on whether any of these OA covers could reach 1 million today.

 

Now I am curious, what do you reckon the Dentist copy of Action 1 would be if it were to come to market today ?

 

 

 

 

Hard to say. I believe he's turned down money far in excess (privately) of what the highest auction results have been. If it's really the best copy that exists (say, a 9.4 compared to the two 9.0's that sold) I can see someone using the auction comps to say the book is $5 million. I could also see an auction house or dealer acquiring it, seeing the PR value of the publicity buying it would bring as a significant additional benefit, and then eventually reselling it.

 

All bets are off if you're talking about the very best copy of the one book that everyone agrees is the grail of the entire hobby.

 

This is going to sound funny but that book is a cultural icon, globally, in a way that every other American comic book and piece of art has decades to go before catching. It's what people discuss as an "Oligarch Book". The kind of thing that pulls money in from outside the country, at absurd numbers, as a trophy of their newly minted wealth. Like the $36 million tea cup.

 

That's the part that's impossible to quantify, the emotion that the piece or book evokes, in those actually in the anticipated realm of buyers.

 

[Peter G]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

 

Putting aside your point about all of these OA covers hitting the market at the same time.

 

And putting aside the speculation on whether any of these OA covers could reach 1 million today.

 

Now I am curious, what do you reckon the Dentist copy of Action 1 would be if it were to come to market today ?

 

 

 

 

Hard to say. I believe he's turned down money far in excess (privately) of what the highest auction results have been. If it's really the best copy that exists (say, a 9.4 compared to the two 9.0's that sold) I can see someone using the auction comps to say the book is $5 million. I could also see an auction house or dealer acquiring it, seeing the PR value of the publicity buying it would bring as a significant additional benefit, and then eventually reselling it.

 

All bets are off if you're talking about the very best copy of the one book that everyone agrees is the grail of the entire hobby.

 

This is going to sound funny but that book is a cultural icon, globally, in a way that every other American comic book and piece of art has decades to go before catching. It's what people discuss as an "Oligarch Book". The kind of thing that pulls money in from outside the country, at absurd numbers, as a trophy of their newly minted wealth. Like the $36 million tea cup.

 

That's the part that's impossible to quantify, the emotion that the piece or book evokes, in those actually in the anticipated realm of buyers.

 

So you can mentally get "there" for comic books but just not OA.

 

Action # 1 is an oligarch book but the cover art to Amazing spider-man # 1 is not

 

I am gonna just have to disagree with you. Not sure why you hate OA so much

 

[comix4fun]

And Mitch paid $1,801.25 for that Action 1 in 1973. He was a mad man! But not really paying multiples of guide for the keys was/is a pretty standard thing.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4820642

 

 

Ok, I stand correct on the $500 amount. Thanks for digging that article up.

 

Regardless, your comment about "paying multiples of guide for the keys was/is a pretty standard thing" really is very insightful on your thought process.

 

I think the OA market of recent has shown that people are entering "crazy numbers" in their bids to be the topper bidder at any cost too.

 

Mitch's own rule from that article is that - "YOU CAN NEVER OVERPAY FOR A MASTERPIECE!"

 

That rule applies to OA too imho

 

 

 

Of course, on that last point I agree.

 

I was just pointing to the depth of the bidding pool getting more and more shallow the higher the prices get.

 

There are a thousands of regular collectors who can pay $1,000 for a $250 piece if they so choose.

 

There are hundreds of regular collectors who can pay $20,000 for a $5,000 piece if they so choose.

 

There are dozens of regular collectors who can pay $100,000 for a $25,000 piece if they so choose.

 

That's about the time the air gets thin.

 

You start getting into the single digits right around $300k, at least those who are ready to roll at a moment's notice and are motivated to actually spend. Then we start to see they are not all interested in the same artists, titles, eras. The competition wanes. The competition that makes it so simple for a $250 piece to jump to $1,000.

 

My discussion was to make it more tangible and tied to who can pay and is willing to pay and not so much if the piece holds cultural weight enough to justify the price.

[comix4fun]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

 

Putting aside your point about all of these OA covers hitting the market at the same time.

 

And putting aside the speculation on whether any of these OA covers could reach 1 million today.

 

Now I am curious, what do you reckon the Dentist copy of Action 1 would be if it were to come to market today ?

 

 

 

 

Hard to say. I believe he's turned down money far in excess (privately) of what the highest auction results have been. If it's really the best copy that exists (say, a 9.4 compared to the two 9.0's that sold) I can see someone using the auction comps to say the book is $5 million. I could also see an auction house or dealer acquiring it, seeing the PR value of the publicity buying it would bring as a significant additional benefit, and then eventually reselling it.

 

All bets are off if you're talking about the very best copy of the one book that everyone agrees is the grail of the entire hobby.

 

This is going to sound funny but that book is a cultural icon, globally, in a way that every other American comic book and piece of art has decades to go before catching. It's what people discuss as an "Oligarch Book". The kind of thing that pulls money in from outside the country, at absurd numbers, as a trophy of their newly minted wealth. Like the $36 million tea cup.

 

That's the part that's impossible to quantify, the emotion that the piece or book evokes, in those actually in the anticipated realm of buyers.

 

So you can mentally get "there" for comic books but just not OA.

 

Action # 1 is an oligarch book but the cover art to Amazing spider-man # 1 is not

 

I am gonna just have to disagree with you. Not sure why you hate OA so much

 

 

 

 

I can get there because...comps.

Several examples and a 50 year+ history of that specific book is all grades and conditions selling for various figures, over time, and over various venues. etc.

 

There's an established market at seven figures already for that book.

 

Action 1 is precisely the type of book that a newly rich, trophy hunting, no nostalgia, little knowledge of the hobby, a-hole is going to go crazy for. He's seen that exact image of that cover on the news, heard the talk, seen the hype, knows the auction results and that book will get him all the oohs and ahhs back home when he's showing it off to his friends while sitting in JFK's rocking chair, resting on top of a carpet made from Elvis' haircut clippings, and eating a defrosted piece of Marylin Monroe's wedding cake (The Joe D. wedding).

 

A black and white piece of comic art takes a lot more explanation at the cocktail party....so it's just not there yet.

 

Unless, of course, he can get Steve Oliff to color it!

[Peter G]

I agree that there's been appreciation for 70 years.

 

I agree that there's room to grow.

 

I agree that if there are any pieces from the Silver Age that should be worth 7 figures it's those (for the most part).

 

I think it's possible someone would go to seven figures of valuation in a private deal, with the right terms, for some of those pieces.

 

I just don't think we're at a point where everything on that list would go to public auction and break $1million right now.

 

Lots of variable and details and timing and unknowns between the "should be" and "will"...not the least of which having willing and ready buyers at those numbers, for all the pieces.

 

I am not dismissing anything, I am just not seeing where anything we've seen points to that entire list selling, today, for $1 million....especially at auction.

 

In the future, anything is possible.

 

Putting aside your point about all of these OA covers hitting the market at the same time.

 

And putting aside the speculation on whether any of these OA covers could reach 1 million today.

 

Now I am curious, what do you reckon the Dentist copy of Action 1 would be if it were to come to market today ?

 

 

 

 

Hard to say. I believe he's turned down money far in excess (privately) of what the highest auction results have been. If it's really the best copy that exists (say, a 9.4 compared to the two 9.0's that sold) I can see someone using the auction comps to say the book is $5 million. I could also see an auction house or dealer acquiring it, seeing the PR value of the publicity buying it would bring as a significant additional benefit, and then eventually reselling it.

 

All bets are off if you're talking about the very best copy of the one book that everyone agrees is the grail of the entire hobby.

 

This is going to sound funny but that book is a cultural icon, globally, in a way that every other American comic book and piece of art has decades to go before catching. It's what people discuss as an "Oligarch Book". The kind of thing that pulls money in from outside the country, at absurd numbers, as a trophy of their newly minted wealth. Like the $36 million tea cup.

 

That's the part that's impossible to quantify, the emotion that the piece or book evokes, in those actually in the anticipated realm of buyers.

 

So you can mentally get "there" for comic books but just not OA.

 

Action # 1 is an oligarch book but the cover art to Amazing spider-man # 1 is not

 

I am gonna just have to disagree with you. Not sure why you hate OA so much

 

 

 

 

I can get there because...comps.

Several examples and a 50 year+ history of that specific book is all grades and conditions selling for various figures, over time, and over various venues. etc.

 

There's an established market at seven figures already for that book.

 

Going full circle now to my first post on this thread, I see the comps in the database supporting a million dollar piece today. I think when the right piece comes along, it is going to blow wayyyy past the million dollar mark. Amazing Spiderman # 1 would be just such a cover, if it existed that is. (Which I am not certain it does.)

 

Guess it depends on how you look at the comps. It is an art, not a science. Especially with so few datapoints it does get harder to extrapolate.

[zhamlau]

ASM 1 goes for a million, pretty easy. I don't have it like that, but If someone offered me it for a million on the sly, I would take out any loan needed to buy it, just for flip alone.

 

That goes to auction, its on USA today and the CBS evening news. When you say "The cover to Spider-man 1" it would turn heads of speculators who know little to nothing about it.

 

You want to see a Russian oligarch buy a piece of comic art, it would be this piece. It probably sells on name alone for 3-4 million.

 

 

 

[JadeGiant]

Good conversation. I think all of the art listed are in the 1M category and I do think that the ST 110, FF 48, ASM 1/14 books might struggle to get there but I don’t think it would be far off and would not be surprised to see them pass that mark. The fact that there seems to be consensus on many of the books eclipsing 1M and the others being close seems to hold up the posit that these books would usher in a new high water mark for artwork. I think the cream of the crop would blow right by 1M and keep going and would ring the bell for a much wider audience to take notice for comic art. I do think the books on the lower rungs of this list might need some of the bigger ones to sell ahead of the higher ones to move the benchmark upward.

[DocR]

The only one i see maybe not going for a million is the DD #1 cover and I'm not sure.

[vodou]

Mitch's own rule from that article is that - "YOU CAN NEVER OVERPAY FOR A MASTERPIECE!"

Yah, unless it's At The Earth's Core .

[vodou]

There are dozens of regular collectors who can pay $100,000 for a $25,000 piece if they so choose.

Are we feeling pretty good about this? (Everybody, not just Chris.) I can't say with authority, but dozens seems large to me.

[comix4fun]

Mitch's own rule from that article is that - "YOU CAN NEVER OVERPAY FOR A MASTERPIECE!"

Yah, unless it's At The Earth's Core .

 

 

 

 

[Terry Doyle]

 

The cover art to ASM 1 would be priceless to me and I assure you if it exists and anybody reading this thread wants to privately offer me the cover, I will gladly pay 1 million, confident in the knowledge that I just made a bargain of a life time. It is Amazing Spider-man # 1 !

 

 

You have that kind of spare cash at your disposal? Wow, I'm impressed, you must have an amazing collection already.

 

 

[Peter G]

 

The cover art to ASM 1 would be priceless to me and I assure you if it exists and anybody reading this thread wants to privately offer me the cover, I will gladly pay 1 million, confident in the knowledge that I just made a bargain of a life time. It is Amazing Spider-man # 1 !

 

 

You have that kind of spare cash at your disposal? Wow, I'm impressed, you must have an amazing collection already.

 

 

 

I wouldn't exactly call 1 million dollars "spare cash" (your sarcasm noted) but I could somewhat "easily" scratch up the money if the opportunity arose. Not bragging. Just stating. I don't think it's an ungodly sum.

[Terry Doyle]

 

The cover art to ASM 1 would be priceless to me and I assure you if it exists and anybody reading this thread wants to privately offer me the cover, I will gladly pay 1 million, confident in the knowledge that I just made a bargain of a life time. It is Amazing Spider-man # 1 !

 

 

You have that kind of spare cash at your disposal? Wow, I'm impressed, you must have an amazing collection already.

 

 

 

I wouldn't exactly call 1 million dollars "spare cash" (your sarcasm noted) but I could somewhat "easily" scratch up the money if the opportunity arose. Not bragging. Just stating. I don't think it's an ungodly sum.

 

No sarcasm intended.

 

Link to you art collection?

[comix4fun]

 

The cover art to ASM 1 would be priceless to me and I assure you if it exists and anybody reading this thread wants to privately offer me the cover, I will gladly pay 1 million, confident in the knowledge that I just made a bargain of a life time. It is Amazing Spider-man # 1 !

 

 

You have that kind of spare cash at your disposal? Wow, I'm impressed, you must have an amazing collection already.

 

 

 

I wouldn't exactly call 1 million dollars "spare cash" (your sarcasm noted) but I could somewhat "easily" scratch up the money if the opportunity arose. Not bragging. Just stating. I don't think it's an ungodly sum.

 

 

 

I knew it!!!

 

I've always wanted to ask you this....

 

 

Do you still get any royalties from your time with Genesis?