What would it REALLY take for the Comic OA market to 'Correct?'

[glendgold]

I don't know that the market is going to "correct" so much as some art will no longer support its current high prices. My impression is that corrections happen when a lot of people need to sell something at once, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds suggests it happens when people are leveraged. If a lot of people are leveraging their net worth to buy the junk we all love, then that's a problem. If a whole bunch of people are putting 5% of their net worth into buying, then there's never going to be a stampede, just disappointment in 20 years when shopping it.

 

(Of course maybe these huge purchases are leveraged to the hilt, in which case ignore all that I say above.)

 

As far as I know, none of us was alive 100 years ago. So art from that era doesn't reflect any personal golden age. But -- 1916 Krazy Kat Sunday? Keeps going up in value. 1916 Happy Hooligan Sunday? Not so much. Each was popular at the time, Happy Hooligan much more so, made it into pop culture and everything. And yet only one of them continues to be collected.

 

Hard to really determine what the 2016 equivalent is, but if something is on the walls of a general audience museum right now, that strikes me as a solid indication that the guardians of immortality are making a pitch for its place in the ever-after sweepstakes.

[AKA Rick]

Again, I didn't say that there are no new, younger collectors.

 

...and to that point, certain artwork will become iconic transcending the comic book medium.

 

So, let's say the pin-up stuff, that's in the "sex sells" category where maybe art collectors may say "who is that character?" and others will retort "I don't care, she's cute and sexy!" moving on to the buy based purely on aesthetics. So, maybe today's pieces from Zenescope titles or by cheesecake artists have good staying power. I don't think they'll go up by leaps and bounds, but I think they could hold their values and increase with a more upside potential and less downside risk than some other artwork.

 

Then you have mainstream crossover characters primarily from DC and Marvel, your Trinity of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman as well as recognizable characters who have been exploited through multi media licenses, as well as your Spider-Man, X-Men (main characters, not Banshee, Havok, Jubilee, etc.), Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, etc who you don't need to be a comic book reader to recognize. I think those will remain iconic to the mainstream and ingrained into pop culture.

 

And you have your characters from 90's Image (WildC.A.T.S., Brigade, Supreme, Shadow Hawk, Savage Dragon, etc.); Top Cow; Aspen; Dark Horse; and the 2nd tier of publishers. Those I think are more unstable unless superseded in popularity by the actual artist's name who is doing the rendering. With exception of a few cult favorites like Hellboy, Spawn and the like, it's easy to fathom much of the artwork of any era (Marvel's 1970's "Red Wolf" for example or DC's "Ragman") being "out of sight, out of mind" forgotten and not sought after nor desired by the masses.

 

But when you talk about the icons, think about a parallel with sports, music, and movies.

 

There are lots of fans of certain historical icons (not fictional characters like on the funny pages, which truth be told has more potential for longevity through reinvention) that have long since passed away like Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, James Dean, and even young people flocking to oldies of their parents generation and before like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, or even recent somewhat retired figures like Van Halen, Guns N Roses, 2Pac, etc.

 

So, I don't think that comic book art needs to be supported by comic books readers. I think there's going to be a perception of prestige, much like how every baseball card collector would love that Honus Wager, a Babe Ruth, 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, etc. yet never seen 'em play and only know them by name, I think the same can be said about a Ditko Spider-Man, Byrne X-Men, Miller Daredevil, Kirby Fantastic Four, etc. - - they'll retain/maintain their values if not feel like blue chip stocks that will go up slowly, but keep increasing in value.

 

 

[suspense39]

I don't know that the market is going to "correct" so much as some art will no longer support its current high prices. My impression is that corrections happen when a lot of people need to sell something at once, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds suggests it happens when people are leveraged. If a lot of people are leveraging their net worth to buy the junk we all love, then that's a problem. If a whole bunch of people are putting 5% of their net worth into buying, then there's never going to be a stampede, just disappointment in 20 years when shopping it.

 

(Of course maybe these huge purchases are leveraged to the hilt, in which case ignore all that I say above.)

 

As far as I know, none of us was alive 100 years ago. So art from that era doesn't reflect any personal golden age. But -- 1916 Krazy Kat Sunday? Keeps going up in value. 1916 Happy Hooligan Sunday? Not so much. Each was popular at the time, Happy Hooligan much more so, made it into pop culture and everything. And yet only one of them continues to be collected.

 

Hard to really determine what the 2016 equivalent is, but if something is on the walls of a general audience museum right now, that strikes me as a solid indication that the guardians of immortality are making a pitch for its place in the ever-after sweepstakes.

 

I like Happy Hooligan, I'm even looking for one

[delekkerste]

As far as I know, none of us was alive 100 years ago. So art from that era doesn't reflect any personal golden age. But -- 1916 Krazy Kat Sunday? Keeps going up in value. 1916 Happy Hooligan Sunday? Not so much. Each was popular at the time, Happy Hooligan much more so, made it into pop culture and everything. And yet only one of them continues to be collected.

 

I collect Krazy Kat art, but, of course, art from that era does not reflect my personal golden age. That said, if I didn't have a personal golden age that got me into collecting back issue comics and then original art, I would never have discovered Krazy Kat and the other before-my-time art that I have since acquired. I would wager that is true of almost everyone who collects Herriman art, with the implication being that, if people are not introduced to comics and comic art like they used to be, that's fewer people who will eventually broaden their interests to the Herrimans, McCays (or even Kirbys and Ditkos) that came before them, no matter who is championing the material.

[SquareChaos]

Where would I go in your predictions, an outlier? I'm in my early 20's, and started in my late teens. I have some pieces of modern art, but the vast amount of my collection is older from between 70s-90's work. I like many of the earlier stuff also, with just the prices that keep me out of some of the nicer pieces.

 

Again, I didn't say that there are no new, younger collectors. Just that there won't be enough of guys like you to clear all the vintage art out there owned by the Gen Xers at ever-escalating prices that people expect. How many guys like yourself will be required to absorb even one of the 40-60 something BSD's collections? Because, like it or not, mortality will play a role in this hobby; almost every piece of art out there is likely to trade hands at least once over the next, say, 30-40 years, including all the massively appreciated BSD collections out there.

 

 

Is it not possible that more modern work will increase in price in the future, since many of the people from the 80's to present will have those items as their sweet nostalgic spot? With just the older examples going down in price, but still of interest to the younger collectors, that could just not afford them before they were lowered?

 

I think what happens to Modern work is a subject in and of itself; the focus of my argument is on what happens to the pre-1997 vintage art the farther out we go. I'm sure some modern work will increase in price in the future, but, overall, I see many reasons why it won't as a whole. But, again, I think it's a separate topic.

 

I'm just starting to dip my toe into this hobby and I have to say that the cost of entry is shocking if, as people often state, we seek to purchase nostalgia. I've always known comic art was expensive - you can't be a comic book collector and reader for as long as I have been without encountering a good deal of OA - but to actually start digging in and getting direct exposure... it really is shocking, there is no other way to describe it. If you're just starting out, unless you're very young and only interested in quite recent works, this is a rich person's hobby. I'm sure this is not exactly shocking news to anyone here

 

I am not a 20 something, I am closing in on 40 (this still surprises me), and I am a professional with no debt, a very stable career, and a decent amount of expendable income. The divide I experience is not in all cases one of means, but is instead typically one of rationalization. There are cognitive barriers in price that I am not willing to cross for a page of comic book art that, frankly, has little to no worldly value outside of the way it makes me feel. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, I love the medium, I am moved by holding a page of art in hand, and I know that feeling is the "inherent" value of art. I do believe I will continue to find ways to make that feeling possible, however, I do still feel as if I've arrived too late to the game. I know this must also be no shocking revelation as I know many feel the same about comic book collecting, but the point remains... by most measures I'm in the upper bound of US income earners, and I feel this hobby to be out of reach financially. More to the point, I feel it to be out of reach while still managing to feel responsible about my spending.

 

Where does this leave me? This leaves me purchasing modern original art (yes, including Manhattan Projects!) and obtaining commissions. I'm learning to keep my eye out, I'm learning to bide my time and have patience, but at the same time my own exploration of this corner of comic collecting doesn't make me feel like it's a robust, self sustaining marketplace.

 

My newbie layman's opinion on the future of OA collecting aside, I've enjoyed reading this thread (and generally lurking in this forum) since I generally can't consider my collecting habits without wondering about the economics of it.

[AKA Rick]

I generally can't consider my collecting habits without wondering about the economics of it.

 

Agreed, in that whenever you drop a significant amount of money into a non-essential luxury item, be it a watch, sports cards, collector's automobiles, jewelry, comic books or artwork, you have to see it as a degree as an investment as well.

 

Collecting OA is much like collecting Automobiles. The vast majority of cars you buy today depreciate off the lot, but there's a sector of collector's cars which commands high values, but the price of entry into getting something worthwhile is high. Sure, you can get a fixer upper and DIY it, but if you're looking for prestige, you have to sink significant money into it. If it's out of passion, you can restore a clunker, build a replica or get into something that's not about the money knowing it'll never had good resale value, but you'll enjoy it nonetheless.

 

So with art, just appreciate the image, look at the beauty, but don't obsess over ownership (as we all are temporary custodians of material goods anyway, as when we all eventually die, we can't take it with us anyway) and buy what you like, and "right click" what you can't afford.

[Mr. Machismo]

Great discussion and thoughtful contributions.

 

I'm mid-20s, only been collecting for two years, the first of which was exclusively commissions. I tend to have expensive taste as far as modern artwork goes (Capullo, Bermejo, Dell'Otto, etc.), so I can understand the 'priced-out' sentiment, as that's recently hit me after what's been a significant year of purchases.

 

My question to you guys is: what price would you consider reasonable for nice artwork featuring popular characters from a mid-range title, illustrated by a mid-range big-two artist? For me, there's plenty of nice covers in the $1-$2K range, which I consider to be quite affordable. That said, I have no idea what the hobby *was* like.

 

Personally, I don't see such a price-point being a huge deterrent for my generation if that collector is introduced via more affordable pieces, such as convention sketches or commissions. Even though it may be out of their means, I feel the snowball effect will occur: if I purchase this piece for $X amount, suddenly $XX doesn't seem so crazy...and eventually you're purchasing 4-5 figure pieces. Rationale? No. But how many young people are nowadays with their finances?

 

 

 

[jjonahjameson1]

It would take several several people saying the sky is falling, and several more believing them en masse.

 

 

[Nexus]

Where does this leave me? This leaves me purchasing modern original art (yes, including Manhattan Projects!) and obtaining commissions.

 

It also leaves you in some fairly exclusive company!

 

 

 

[Weird Paper]

I don't know that the market is going to "correct" so much as some art will no longer support its current high prices. My impression is that corrections happen when a lot of people need to sell something at once, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds suggests it happens when people are leveraged. If a lot of people are leveraging their net worth to buy the junk we all love, then that's a problem. If a whole bunch of people are putting 5% of their net worth into buying, then there's never going to be a stampede, just disappointment in 20 years when shopping it.

 

(Of course maybe these huge purchases are leveraged to the hilt, in which case ignore all that I say above.)

 

As far as I know, none of us was alive 100 years ago. So art from that era doesn't reflect any personal golden age. But -- 1916 Krazy Kat Sunday? Keeps going up in value. 1916 Happy Hooligan Sunday? Not so much. Each was popular at the time, Happy Hooligan much more so, made it into pop culture and everything. And yet only one of them continues to be collected.

 

Hard to really determine what the 2016 equivalent is, but if something is on the walls of a general audience museum right now, that strikes me as a solid indication that the guardians of immortality are making a pitch for its place in the ever-after sweepstakes.

 

I like Happy Hooligan, I'm even looking for one

You can't have mine.

[SquareChaos]

Where does this leave me? This leaves me purchasing modern original art (yes, including Manhattan Projects!) and obtaining commissions.

 

It also leaves you in some fairly exclusive company!

 

 

 

No wonder I can't find the pages from Nick that I want

 

I'm surprised that some of Ryan's incredible work is still available.

[suspense39]

I don't know that the market is going to "correct" so much as some art will no longer support its current high prices. My impression is that corrections happen when a lot of people need to sell something at once, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds suggests it happens when people are leveraged. If a lot of people are leveraging their net worth to buy the junk we all love, then that's a problem. If a whole bunch of people are putting 5% of their net worth into buying, then there's never going to be a stampede, just disappointment in 20 years when shopping it.

 

(Of course maybe these huge purchases are leveraged to the hilt, in which case ignore all that I say above.)

 

As far as I know, none of us was alive 100 years ago. So art from that era doesn't reflect any personal golden age. But -- 1916 Krazy Kat Sunday? Keeps going up in value. 1916 Happy Hooligan Sunday? Not so much. Each was popular at the time, Happy Hooligan much more so, made it into pop culture and everything. And yet only one of them continues to be collected.

 

Hard to really determine what the 2016 equivalent is, but if something is on the walls of a general audience museum right now, that strikes me as a solid indication that the guardians of immortality are making a pitch for its place in the ever-after sweepstakes.

 

I like Happy Hooligan, I'm even looking for one

You can't have mine.

 

but i can still look

[Nexus]

No wonder I can't find the pages from Nick that I want

 

It's not *just* Millennials who are buying modern art!

 

But it might only be fellow old guys buying vintage art...

[JadeGiant]

Fun conversation. I don’t see a correction in terms of a bubble crash but more of a price leveling out as the more likely scenario. But who knows, it could keep going up as the hobby hasn’t really matured IMHO. I think we tend to look at “today” as the mature point in the market but we don’t really know that and we are likely still on the upward swing as more seem to be finding the hobby. I think there is a prevailing notion of nostalgia = reading comics in terms of what creates the “nostalgia demand” in the hobby. Sure, that is what it has been in the past and I keep hearing that comics are going to decrease (at least physical copies) and thus the art hobby will be impacted. Even if physical comics (or the creation thereof) decrease, I see nostalgia being as strong as ever. My son is a HUGE Marvel fan and he is building nostalgia in buckets through movies, video games, cartoons, etc. and I am sure he will love the characters in the future as much as I do now. From nostalgia of the characters … not necessarily from the reading of a comic. Nostalgia will always exist for the blue chip characters. What nostalgia drives you to is another factor. If you have it and like to collect I think you may end up in the same place as those reading the comics. I loved baseball growing up and found myself chasing player cards of guys that had retired before my time. I have Mickey Mantle cards and I have zero nostalgia for him – never saw him play.

[rocket1312]

I'm just starting to dip my toe into this hobby and I have to say that the cost of entry is shocking if, as people often state, we seek to purchase nostalgia. I've always known comic art was expensive - you can't be a comic book collector and reader for as long as I have been without encountering a good deal of OA - but to actually start digging in and getting direct exposure... it really is shocking, there is no other way to describe it. If you're just starting out, unless you're very young and only interested in quite recent works, this is a rich person's hobby. I'm sure this is not exactly shocking news to anyone here

 

I am not a 20 something, I am closing in on 40 (this still surprises me), and I am a professional with no debt, a very stable career, and a decent amount of expendable income. The divide I experience is not in all cases one of means, but is instead typically one of rationalization. There are cognitive barriers in price that I am not willing to cross for a page of comic book art that, frankly, has little to no worldly value outside of the way it makes me feel. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, I love the medium, I am moved by holding a page of art in hand, and I know that feeling is the "inherent" value of art. I do believe I will continue to find ways to make that feeling possible, however, I do still feel as if I've arrived too late to the game. I know this must also be no shocking revelation as I know many feel the same about comic book collecting, but the point remains... by most measures I'm in the upper bound of US income earners, and I feel this hobby to be out of reach financially. More to the point, I feel it to be out of reach while still managing to feel responsible about my spending.

 

Where does this leave me? This leaves me purchasing modern original art (yes, including Manhattan Projects!) and obtaining commissions. I'm learning to keep my eye out, I'm learning to bide my time and have patience, but at the same time my own exploration of this corner of comic collecting doesn't make me feel like it's a robust, self sustaining marketplace.

 

My newbie layman's opinion on the future of OA collecting aside, I've enjoyed reading this thread (and generally lurking in this forum) since I generally can't consider my collecting habits without wondering about the economics of it.

 

Your situation/feelings mirror mine almost exactly. (Although I don't own any Manhattan Projects art. Sorry Felix.) My wife and I may not be 1%ers, but we're a heck of a lot closer than most people in the US, and yet I find the price of most of the art I'm interested in to be a complete non-starter. That isn't sour grapes, it's just the reality I live in. So when Gene asks who's going to be buying up all of the great Silver and Bronze Age art when the older collectors start selling in the next 10-20 years, I can proclaim with much authority that it won't be me. And that's coming from someone with both the interest and some semblance of means.

 

 

[delekkerste]

My son is a HUGE Marvel fan and he is building nostalgia in buckets through movies, video games, cartoons, etc. and I am sure he will love the characters in the future as much as I do now. From nostalgia of the characters … not necessarily from the reading of a comic. Nostalgia will always exist for the blue chip characters. What nostalgia drives you to is another factor. If you have it and like to collect I think you may end up in the same place as those reading the comics. I loved baseball growing up and found myself chasing player cards of guys that had retired before my time. I have Mickey Mantle cards and I have zero nostalgia for him – never saw him play.

 

Well, this is just like my Krazy Kat example. I collect Krazy Kat, which is obviously before my time, but only because I read/collected comics and nostalgia brought me back to collecting back issues and then original art as a young professional (and my interests branched out over time). Likewise, you found yourself chasing Mickey Mantle cards - but only because you got into cards in the first place. If you were a teenager today, you're probably not collecting cards - you're more likely to be playing Fantasy Baseball, watching classic baseball games on one of the thousand cable channels out there, looking up stats and video clips online, etc. If you're even watching baseball at all - 60% of the baseball TV viewing audience is over the age of 55 I recently read!! :whatthe:

 

Similarly, it's clear that the youth generation is getting their comics/hero fix mostly through film, TV, videogames, merchandising, cosplay, social media and other non-comics media these days. It's simply not the same. When you read the source material (the comics), you get every nuance of the stories, you admire the different artistic styles, you see how everything is interconnected. And, even so, the conversion rate of comics collector to OA collector is pretty low. It's only logical that the conversion rate of superhero movie viewer to OA collector is going to be absolutely minuscule. In fact, it's more likely that you'll have to convert people first to the source material and then to OA (as has been the traditional path).

 

I just don't see a natural progression from movie fan to OA collector - how would you even know who the artists are, what the key issues and storylines are, how to even begin looking for the stuff, etc.? It won't make sense unless you become indoctrinated into the comics first. And, so, if movies/TV/other media are the new gateway, then there has to be a conversion to the source material and then another one to OA - the extra step is going to mean a lot of potential collectors never making it to that point. Certainly not enough to make up for the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, who largely DID grow up with comics, with a good number of us making the conversion to OA collecting.

[JadeGiant]

My son is a HUGE Marvel fan and he is building nostalgia in buckets through movies, video games, cartoons, etc. and I am sure he will love the characters in the future as much as I do now. From nostalgia of the characters … not necessarily from the reading of a comic. Nostalgia will always exist for the blue chip characters. What nostalgia drives you to is another factor. If you have it and like to collect I think you may end up in the same place as those reading the comics. I loved baseball growing up and found myself chasing player cards of guys that had retired before my time. I have Mickey Mantle cards and I have zero nostalgia for him – never saw him play.

 

Well, this is just like my Krazy Kat example. I collect Krazy Kat, which is obviously before my time, but only because I read/collected comics and nostalgia brought me back to collecting back issues and then original art as a young professional (and my interests branched out over time). Likewise, you found yourself chasing Mickey Mantle cards - but only because you got into cards in the first place. If you were a teenager today, you're probably not collecting cards - you're more likely to be playing Fantasy Baseball, watching classic baseball games on one of the thousand cable channels out there, looking up stats and video clips online, etc. If you're even watching baseball at all - 60% of the baseball TV viewing audience is over the age of 55 I recently read!! :whatthe:

 

Similarly, it's clear that the youth generation is getting their comics/hero fix mostly through film, TV, videogames, merchandising, cosplay, social media and other non-comics media these days. It's simply not the same. When you read the source material (the comics), you get every nuance of the stories, you admire the different artistic styles, you see how everything is interconnected. And, even so, the conversion rate of comics collector to OA collector is pretty low. It's only logical that the conversion rate of superhero movie viewer to OA collector is going to be absolutely minuscule. In fact, it's more likely that you'll have to convert people first to the source material and then to OA (as has been the traditional path).

 

I just don't see a natural progression from movie fan to OA collector - how would you even know who the artists are, what the key issues and storylines are, how to even begin looking for the stuff, etc.? It won't make sense unless you become indoctrinated into the comics first. And, so, if movies/TV/other media are the new gateway, then there has to be a conversion to the source material and then another one to OA - the extra step is going to mean a lot of potential collectors never making it to that point. Certainly not enough to make up for the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, who largely DID grow up with comics, with a good number of us making the conversion to OA collecting.

 

Your logic is sound and I agree with a lot of this in theory. I feel that we tend to comprise the equation for determining futures way to simplistically. It sounds so linear and mathematical but it doesn’t feel like that is how it works. Art collectors seem to have a wide confluence of drivers that contribute to them being in the hobby. For me it is nostalgia for sure but it is also that damn collector “gene” (no pun intended) that I have that makes me always want/need to accumulate multiples of something. It is also my deep intrinsic appreciation of art in many forms that really drives this for me. For some it might be the need for kudos, atta-boys that drive them. Or maybe the investment perspective is a key driver. I agree that movie fans to art collectors in not a natural progression but that is just a piece of the picture when factoring the future collectors. Art collecting feel more art (once again no pun intended) than science and we are struggling to define the parameters and I think it is impossible. I just watched the first Jurassic Park with my kids over the weekend and I recall the Jeff Goldblum scene where he illustrates that life always finds a way … I think that comic art will always find a way to remain relevant and will not have a major regression for any quality art from any era. IMHO.

[Carlo M]

This is a fascinating topic, and moreover is very relevant, considering the amount of money some of us have invested (either in cash or because of the appreciation) in these pages

 

I am afraid I side with Gene on the demographics being just too strong a factor in the long term.

 

I would love if comic OA were to cross over into main stream art, because that would provide longer term value to our pieces. I think we should all collectively aim to help the transition, trying to highlight as much as possible the intrinsic artistic value of our treasured masterpieces (contributing pieces to mainstream modern art exhibitions, blogs, articles, what have you).

 

However, I fear this will be an almost impossible task. Context plays too big a role into the value of one OA piece, and it would be impossible to transfer context into the eyes of a non comic fan beholder. My wife does not read comics and has an above average knowledge and appreciation of modern art. With no context awareness to guide her through my collection, the only pieces of my collection she really likes are Jae Lee Inhumans (and I have Adams, Kirby, Steranko, Romita, Byrne, John and Sal Buscema, Lee, Colan, BWS....). I jave always found this a source for a lot of pondering on intrinsic aesthetic value vs. context.

 

An interesting, separate thread could be : "pick the piece in your collection that would draw the most attention of non comic book readers". I am not sure mine would necessarily be the most expensive....

 

Carlo

[Peter G]

My son is a HUGE Marvel fan and he is building nostalgia in buckets through movies, video games, cartoons, etc. and I am sure he will love the characters in the future as much as I do now. From nostalgia of the characters … not necessarily from the reading of a comic. Nostalgia will always exist for the blue chip characters. What nostalgia drives you to is another factor. If you have it and like to collect I think you may end up in the same place as those reading the comics. I loved baseball growing up and found myself chasing player cards of guys that had retired before my time. I have Mickey Mantle cards and I have zero nostalgia for him – never saw him play.

 

Well, this is just like my Krazy Kat example. I collect Krazy Kat, which is obviously before my time, but only because I read/collected comics and nostalgia brought me back to collecting back issues and then original art as a young professional (and my interests branched out over time). Likewise, you found yourself chasing Mickey Mantle cards - but only because you got into cards in the first place. If you were a teenager today, you're probably not collecting cards - you're more likely to be playing Fantasy Baseball, watching classic baseball games on one of the thousand cable channels out there, looking up stats and video clips online, etc. If you're even watching baseball at all - 60% of the baseball TV viewing audience is over the age of 55 I recently read!! :whatthe:

 

Similarly, it's clear that the youth generation is getting their comics/hero fix mostly through film, TV, videogames, merchandising, cosplay, social media and other non-comics media these days. It's simply not the same. When you read the source material (the comics), you get every nuance of the stories, you admire the different artistic styles, you see how everything is interconnected. And, even so, the conversion rate of comics collector to OA collector is pretty low. It's only logical that the conversion rate of superhero movie viewer to OA collector is going to be absolutely minuscule. In fact, it's more likely that you'll have to convert people first to the source material and then to OA (as has been the traditional path).

 

I just don't see a natural progression from movie fan to OA collector - how would you even know who the artists are, what the key issues and storylines are, how to even begin looking for the stuff, etc.? It won't make sense unless you become indoctrinated into the comics first. And, so, if movies/TV/other media are the new gateway, then there has to be a conversion to the source material and then another one to OA - the extra step is going to mean a lot of potential collectors never making it to that point. Certainly not enough to make up for the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, who largely DID grow up with comics, with a good number of us making the conversion to OA collecting.

 

Your logic is sound and I agree with a lot of this in theory. I feel that we tend to comprise the equation for determining futures way to simplistically. It sounds so linear and mathematical but it doesn’t feel like that is how it works. Art collectors seem to have a wide confluence of drivers that contribute to them being in the hobby. For me it is nostalgia for sure but it is also that damn collector “gene” (no pun intended) that I have that makes me always want/need to accumulate multiples of something. It is also my deep intrinsic appreciation of art in many forms that really drives this for me. For some it might be the need for kudos, atta-boys that drive them. Or maybe the investment perspective is a key driver. I agree that movie fans to art collectors in not a natural progression but that is just a piece of the picture when factoring the future collectors. Art collecting feel more art (once again no pun intended) than science and we are struggling to define the parameters and I think it is impossible. I just watched the first Jurassic Park with my kids over the weekend and I recall the Jeff Goldblum scene where he illustrates that life always finds a way … I think that comic art will always find a way to remain relevant and will not have a major regression for any quality art from any era. IMHO.

 

+1

 

People seek out that which they find interesting. I did not have to be born in ancient Egypt to be fascinated by the Egyptian gods Horus and Osiris and appreciate the mythology and art form.

 

I think people can appreciate comic books and comic OA even if exposure to actual comic books is initially limited.

 

 

 

 

[AKA Rick]

I just don't see a natural progression from movie fan to OA collector - how would you even know who the artists are, what the key issues and storylines are, how to even begin looking for the stuff, etc.? It won't make sense unless you become indoctrinated into the comics first. And, so, if movies/TV/other media are the new gateway, then there has to be a conversion to the source material and then another one to OA - the extra step is going to mean a lot of potential collectors never making it to that point. Certainly not enough to make up for the Baby Boomers and Gen Xers, who largely DID grow up with comics, with a good number of us making the conversion to OA collecting.

 

I am going to make a really bizarre stretch speculation, but I think one day in future generations to come, certain "grail" comic art will be featured in museums as historical documents of sort, much like the Declaration of Independence that will have people traveling to visit and see.

 

By "grail" it's not the loosely overused self-indulgent definition of what individuals feel are great such as a random Adam Hughes cover that's the best piece in their collection or something they paid $5-10k+ for, but more true "grail" pieces of historical significance to the mythology behind comics featuring the 1st appearance or a remarkable storyline beyond being simply a pretty picture or pin-up.

 

I feel comic book OA will be held to a higher standard and elevated in status getting the respect it deserves shoulder to shoulder with the "fine" arts as well as "classics" in that way.

 

I could be wrong 'tho and it may be hundreds if not thousands of years from today.

 

Interestingly, a friend of mine who collects comics, made an odd statement that if the world's population were to turn over completely and all that was left were comic books and a new civilization were to emerge knowing nothing of the past occupants, that if they used comic books as resource material and treated them as history books, then the comic books might be considered "the bible" of the future and an entire culture would be build around the books... I'm not sure if he is an oddball or got that from a Twilight Zone type episode or not... But, I do think as we continue to look back at some of the comics, art and creators, we do grow a fond appreciation towards what they build as a foundation in pop culture.