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Why did Kirby's mid-70's and on work just not look as good?

Started by RockyMullins,

74 posts in this topic

Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted

I think a big part of what separates interest in his work from his Marvel to DC is the way Stan handed his stories.

 

Stan held a reader's hand through those Marvel stories (which helped grow the interest in comics), so it wasn't as necessary to let the art guide you (even though it DID). Left alone without that narration, a primarily Marvel reading comic fan might not have as easy of a time making his way through some of the big ideas Kirby brought with him to DC.

 

It may be difficult for fans who grew up primarily reading Marvel house stories with their heavy vernacular, but once you adapt to Kirby's unique syntax, both in art and dialogue, you're amazed at the style, power, and depth of those Fourth World Stories.

 

No way was he on auto-pilot then.

 

 

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F For Fake

F For Fake

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I adore Kirby's 70's stuff, and I think the New Gods run is among the strongest of his career. I don't see a dip in quality at all, in fact, I think it was a very inspired run. I'm also a big fan of his 70's Marvel return work, the wackier stuff like Eternals, Machine Man, 2001, and Devil Dino. I mean this mess is mind blowing:

 

8ygw12.jpg

 

I think 70's Kirby was among the best stuff of his career.

 

Now, in the 80's you can definitely see the decline, through Super Powers, Silver Star, and all of that stuff. But, I mean, he was OLD. He'd been working his hands and eyes to death for decades. So I tend to be a little forgiving of that stuff.

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mosconi

mosconi

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I agree with the OP. Kirby's 60's work was unbelievable but his mid 70's stuff and later just doesn't do anything for me. Maybe it was the inking or change in style, or as many have pointed, just plain old age. Same thing happened to one of my all-time favorite artists Steve Ditko

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

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That Ron Dude

That Ron Dude

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Part of it is taste. One friend, a Marvel and DC penciller from years gone by, thinks of the work at DC inked by Royer as his best.

 

I don't.

 

What people said at the time was he had no editor and if anyone told him anything negative the response would be, "I've been doing this for thirty years [so I know what I am doing]".

 

People said a bit later that the fans were expecting something similar to the Marvel work but without the hokeyness that Stan Lee added. We got something entirely different and weren't ready for it.

 

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dpiercy

dpiercy

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Was this story finished? Did it see publication? As I recall, it was part of an autobiographical story but all I have ever seen is this piece.

 

I am not sure on either count. I think it was inked and finished and was a commissioned piece and, yes, autobiographical. Many of the panels and the awesome 2 page splash are in Evanier's "King of Comics" book.

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jools&jim

jools&jim

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Was this story finished? Did it see publication? As I recall, it was part of an autobiographical story but all I have ever seen is this piece.

I am not sure on either count. I think it was inked and finished and was a commissioned piece and, yes, autobiographical. Many of the panels and the awesome 2 page splash are in Evanier's "King of Comics" book.

Street Code

 

 

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jools&jim

jools&jim

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I think of the seventies as the pinnacle of Jack's career. For a fan it's pure uncensored awesomeness, passion and fun and has long been the central focus of my collection.

(thumbs u

 

For better (for fans like us) or worse, it's about as close as the comics audience ever got to seeing "pure Kirby" unleashed...

 

 

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MedicAR

MedicAR

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It took me a long time to come around to the New Gods and other Fourth Wolrd books. I don't recall the contemporary Kirby that introduced me to him but I remember the clerk at the store making cracks about Kirby's "cinder blocks with ears." I found his early Marvel work in the boxes in the store, buying a couple of old issues for the price of a single new comic so despite being 20 years too late, I still came up on 60s Marvels.

 

The comment about Stan Lee holding the hand of the reader is pretty accurate. I do recall The Hunger Dogs being released and how lost I was trying to read it. Without knowledge of the New Gods, it was a jumbled mess and even after picking up on the New Gods, it was still borderline coherent for me. I went back to them a few years ago and re-read them and absolutely loved it! He dialogue could have used some polishing but otherwise it was an incredible offering.

 

Once again, here's his career stats:

 

Career Totals

  • 20,318 pages of art
  • 679 pages of layouts
  • 1,385 covers
  • 22 cover layouts

Career Averages

  • 376 pages per year
  • 31 pages per month
  • 1 page per day
  • 26 covers per year
  • 2.2 covers per month

Most Pages In A Single Year

  • 1158 pages in 1962 (just over 3 pages per day)

 

Most Pages In A Single Month

  • 142 pages in 1947

Most Covers In A Single Year

  • 102 in 1964

 

Most Covers In A Single Month

  • 11 covers in October 1976 and January 1977

Longest Uniterrupted Period Of Publication

  • July 1958 to January 1978
  • 19 years 7 months
  • 13,133 pages
  • 1,013 covers

 

All information comes courtesy of the "Art of Jack Kirby" by Ray Wyman Jr., Blue Rose Press, 1994

 

Looking at these numbers, I can see the auto-pilot theory but I don't agree with it. I think years at the drawing table, failing eye sight, and the public's changing tastes left him obsolete. I hate to use that term in referring to Kirby given his output for decades prior, but I think of the late 70s were generally a wasteland in the comics world. In the early 80s, the independent movement rose to prominence with a grittier, less polished art style sweeping the industry but Kirby's art was somehow neither old school nor did it fit the new style. Following the Dark Knight and Watchmen, the stories became darker as well and these simply did not fit Kirby's narrative style which was still grand and cosmic in scale.

 

Without a doubt he did decline late in his career, but the perception of that decline is enhanced by changing tastes in the readership. I may have to see if I ever picked up all of Silver Star and go through it...

hm

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MedicAR

MedicAR

Posted
Posted

Was this story finished? Did it see publication? As I recall, it was part of an autobiographical story but all I have ever seen is this piece.

I am not sure on either count. I think it was inked and finished and was a commissioned piece and, yes, autobiographical. Many of the panels and the awesome 2 page splash are in Evanier's "King of Comics" book.

Street Code

 

 

You'll have to excuse me, I"m off to eBay! :banana:

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the blob

the blob

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He's having more fun, more abstract, in that 70s stuff. Didn't he do some FFs in the late 70s? Those were kind of bleh.

 

The cosmic stuff works in that abstract style. Men in tights, not as much.

 

I sort of regret selling my only Kirby OA page a couple of years back even though it was a 600% flip after 6 years. Sure, it was only a captain victory page, but you take what you can get.

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F For Fake

F For Fake

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Posted

I think of the seventies as the pinnacle of Jack's career. For a fan it's pure uncensored awesomeness, passion and fun and has long been the central focus of my collection.

(thumbs u

 

For better (for fans like us) or worse, it's about as close as the comics audience ever got to seeing "pure Kirby" unleashed...

 

 

Absolutely. His imagination was totally set free. It's probably blasphemy to many, but I prefer his 70's output (taken as a whole, from New Gods to his Marvel return) over the 60's stuff. It's just so unhinged, I love it.

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the blob

the blob

Posted
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Career Totals

 

20,318 pages of art

679 pages of layouts

1,385 covers

22 cover layouts

 

Career Averages

 

376 pages per year

31 pages per month

1 page per day

26 covers per year

2.2 covers per month

 

Most Pages In A Single Year

 

1158 pages in 1962 (just over 3 pages per day)

 

Most Pages In A Single Month

 

142 pages in 1947

 

Most Covers In A Single Year

 

102 in 1964

 

Most Covers In A Single Month

 

11 covers in October 1976 and January 1977

 

Longest Uniterrupted Period Of Publication

 

July 1958 to January 1978

19 years 7 months

13,133 pages

1,013 covers

 

All information comes courtesy of the "Art of Jack Kirby" by Ray Wyman Jr., Blue Rose Press, 1994

 

----

 

I actually thought the totals might be a little more as it sure "seemed" like there were so many stretches where he was doing 3-5 books a month, but I guess those were only a few stretches, or maybe some of those were just covers or bi-monthly books? I mean, when he cam back to marvel in the 70s he was frigging 60 and he was doing Captain America, Black Panther, Devil Dino, Machine Man, 2001, the Eternals and various coveers, but I guess not everything was in the same month.

 

The man was productive!

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