Why did Kirby's mid-70's and on work just not look as good?

[RockyMullins]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

[jools&jim]

But around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill.

 

I know...just horribly ugly, with no imagination at all...

 

 

 

 

[jools&jim]

 

But seriously...eye of the beholder and all that.

 

I love Kirby's '70s work for Marvel and DC, which I guess you could say was becoming somewhat more "impressionistic" during that period. To my eyes, Jack's "Fourth World" stuff represents the full-flowering of his "mature" style, before age and failing eyesight got the better of him near the end.

 

I can see why it's not to everyone's taste, but I don't think he went "downhill" as much as he was simply continuing to grow and evolve creatively...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jcjames]

 

The ONLY thing about Kirby's work that I don't like is that - he just can't draw faces. Every male face he draws is virtually the same face! And female faces - oh blech!

 

One thing I also noticed about Kirby faces (male faces) is that almost every male mouth he draws is HIS mouth. Take a look at Kirby's mouth and compare it to Kamandi, Cap, Reed, Thor or any other male he draws - that's KIRBY'S lower lip

 

 

[the blob]

I like the Fourth World stuff for the most part, at least the first year or so of it, but Kirby does start going downhill later in the 70s.

 

He was probably a little burned out as he hit his 60s. The guy was cranking out 3-5 books a month for a long time.

[Bunky Brian]

"auto pilot"

 

He was so great for so long, remember the 40's, 50's prior to the 60's, etc

 

I think he simply got to a point, where he was auto pilot, during the 70's

 

IMHO

 

Bri

[Buzzetta]

Every Kirby face is the same face.

 

The comics world would not see such a thing until John Romita Jr, drew Peter Parker with dark hair, made him frown and dressed him in red and blue tights calling him Superman.

 

[grebal]

Ouch, Buzz. ; )

 

 

Loved the beehive hairdo thing Kirby had going in 60s, Crystal's hair and Sue's were pretty kewpie.

[Buzzetta]

Ouch, Buzz. ; )

 

 

Loved the beehive hairdo thing Kirby had going in 60s, Crystal's hair and Sue's were pretty kewpie.

 

You only say, "Ouch" because it is true.

 

I could create a mock advertisement.

 

Take that Superman face

Put it on a body wearing a new variation of a Spider-man costume

In the advertisement I state, "John Romita Jr is back at Marvel... and so is Ben Reilly" and I guarantee you that people will think it is real.

[Black_Adam]

 

It's been a while since I read it, but I think in Ronin Ro's Kirby biography, Tales to Astonish, he indicates Kirby had become disenchanted with the way he felt he'd been treated by both Marvel and DC and his work in the later Seventies (after his return to Marvel) reflected his lack of passion for the characters and stories he was being given and, basically, the entire comic industry.

 

This is the Kirby I grew up with, it wasn't until later that I discovered his early stuff.

 

[vaillant]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

 

You should be more precise with the timing. I believe the actual problems started more seriously in the late 1970s-early 1980s.

The Fourth World material in general is still qualitatively excellent.

From some point onwards, he suffered from a degenerating eye illness that caused a distortion. That is clearly told in the Mark Evanier biography and can be seen clearly as Captain Victory progresses.

 

Also, I continue to wonder why people reply to a question like this with arbitrary personal taste comments which have nothing to do with the original question.

Kirby's faces were not "all the same" by any means. This just shows you one does know his work enough, along the span of all of his career..

[Bronty]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

 

You should be more precise with the timing. I believe the actual problems started more seriously in the late 1970s-early 1980s.

The Fourth World material in general is still qualitatively excellent.

From some point onwards, he suffered from a degenerating eye illness that caused a distortion. That is clearly told in the Mark Evanier biography and can be seen clearly as Captain Victory progresses.

 

Also, I continue to wonder why people reply to a question like this with arbitrary personal taste comments which have nothing to do with the original question.

Kirby's faces were not "all the same" by any means. This just shows you one does know his work enough, along the span of all of his career..

 

well said

[JazzMan]

I agree. Kirby's later work did not impress me as his earlier work did. You can come up with all the grotesque splash pages but I just don't enjoy it especially the shading. The shade/shadows look like they were just ink blots.

 

I agree that Kirby's faces were different, especially if you compare his work to Ditko's work.

[RockyMullins]

What got me thinking about this was thumbing through the captain America return around 1976. Looking at cap in the 60s, and how he looked by 76 are so different to me. I still love and respect his work, just those latter years get me. Couldn't really tell if it was something outside of Kirby I couldn't put my finger on.

[the blob]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

 

You should be more precise with the timing. I believe the actual problems started more seriously in the late 1970s-early 1980s.

The Fourth World material in general is still qualitatively excellent.

From some point onwards, he suffered from a degenerating eye illness that caused a distortion. That is clearly told in the Mark Evanier biography and can be seen clearly as Captain Victory progresses.

 

Also, I continue to wonder why people reply to a question like this with arbitrary personal taste comments which have nothing to do with the original question.

Kirby's faces were not "all the same" by any means. This just shows you one does know his work enough, along the span of all of his career..

 

This is America gosh darnit. My ancestors fought and died for our right to answer whatever question however we feel like, regardless of whether anyone actually asked it.

 

In any event, the OP asks "Anyone feel the same way", which is an invitation for opinion statements.

[exitmusicblue]

I prefer a sober Bill Everett.

[jcjames]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

 

You should be more precise with the timing. I believe the actual problems started more seriously in the late 1970s-early 1980s.

The Fourth World material in general is still qualitatively excellent.

From some point onwards, he suffered from a degenerating eye illness that caused a distortion. That is clearly told in the Mark Evanier biography and can be seen clearly as Captain Victory progresses.

 

Also, I continue to wonder why people reply to a question like this with arbitrary personal taste comments which have nothing to do with the original question.

Kirby's faces were not "all the same" by any means. This just shows you one does know his work enough, along the span of all of his career..

Don't make me give you the Kirby Face Test!

 

 

 

[Aman619]

its the inking. his pencils were a bit looser, and the inking even looser. More slick. Following Kirblys flow rather than trying to look realistic. Ayers, Sinnott, even Coletta all tried to take Kirbys exaggerated lines and keep a semblance of realism, allowing for the perspective effects Kirby pencilled for power.

 

Also, back in early Marvel days, it was more "serious" business... building a comics company against mainstay DC. a decade later with Marvel formally on top in sales, and a new generation of artists and writers, plus Kirbys passed off attitude, I bet they were pretty hands off Old Jack. Aside from hiring and firing him off books, who at Marvel in the 70s could tell him what and how to draw??

 

 

[thehumantorch]

Every time I look at the Kirby stuff from the 40's, 50's, 60's, and some of the early 70's, I just love it...but around the time he went to DC, it just went downhill. I'm wondering if the issue was Jack, or the inking style, maybe the newer coloring techniques and paper? Anyone feel the same way?

 

You should be more precise with the timing. I believe the actual problems started more seriously in the late 1970s-early 1980s.

The Fourth World material in general is still qualitatively excellent.

From some point onwards, he suffered from a degenerating eye illness that caused a distortion. That is clearly told in the Mark Evanier biography and can be seen clearly as Captain Victory progresses.

 

Also, I continue to wonder why people reply to a question like this with arbitrary personal taste comments which have nothing to do with the original question.

Kirby's faces were not "all the same" by any means. This just shows you one does know his work enough, along the span of all of his career..

 

Agreed, loved his mid 70s art for DC. Writing, not so much.

 

Pretty well anyone in their 60s or older is gonna start having vision problems. I'd imagine all those years working late to meet deadlines and straining his eyes didn't help.

 

He did often draw the same crowd faces from issue to issue but I think that was his form of shorthand to pump out pages. I don't believe there's ever been a more productive artist in comic history.

 

 

[FatComicMafia]

But seriously...eye of the beholder and all that.

 

I love Kirby's '70s work for Marvel and DC, which I guess you could say was becoming somewhat more "impressionistic" during that period. To my eyes, Jack's "Fourth World" stuff represents the full-flowering of his "mature" style, before age and failing eyesight got the better of him near the end.

 

I can see why it's not to everyone's taste, but I don't think he went "downhill" as much as he was simply continuing to grow and evolve creatively...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Kirby's early to mid 1970s work is actually quite prime. Kirby's use of form, abstraction, and composition are fantastic. Pair him up with Mike Royer and you have plenty of master-works. Take a close look at Kirby's Devil Dinosaur, dynamic and highly underrated.