Top 5 Marvel SA keys

[tth2]

Things like historical significance, influence on other characters/titles, and role in evolution of Marvel and comics in general, have no impact?

 

Of course they do... and so does their status and awareness in the real world. Clearly Spider-man's success as a licensing tool and billion dollar film franchise makes his first comic book appearance the #2 book on this list. How could it NOT affect his standing?

I disagree. Even if the Spiderman movies had never come out, or been duds, I would still have picked AF 15 as the 2nd most important Marvel and ranked it along with FF 1 as the two automatic selections for any Top 5 pick. Spider-man more than any other title reflected the difference between Marvel's way of story telling and DC. I didn't, and don't, need the affirmation of a bunch of movie-goers and video game players to tell me that.

 

Similarly, X-Men #1 would have been an automatic Top 5 pick regardless of the success of the movies. The title in the 1970s singlehandedly revitalized Marvel and brought in new generations of fans. It was an important title for comic-related reasons, not because it crossed over into different media and became more popular amongst non-comic readers.

 

Let me put it a different way. Suppose the Punisher movie had been done well and become the biggest grossing movie of all time, and was a household name and every little kid wore Punisher pajamas? Would that elevate ASM #129 into the Top 5 (assuming for a moment that it wasn't a BA book )? Unless the title itself had been more influential from a pure comic perspective, I would say no.

[Silver Surfer]

Granted FF is ultra important because it was the first but I'd still have to give the nod to AF#15 simply because he has dominated the comic industry ever since. Clearly by far the most recognizable superhero in Marvel if not the whole world and this has been the case since the early 60's. Without a doubt he was Marvel's "franchise player" in the 60's, 70's and to this very day. I don't think any single character has even come close to taking his place.

[Aman619]

Things like historical significance, influence on other characters/titles, and role in evolution of Marvel and comics in general, have no impact?

 

Of course they do... and so does their status and awareness in the real world. Clearly Spider-man's success as a licensing tool and billion dollar film franchise makes his first comic book appearance the #2 book on this list. How could it NOT affect his standing?

I disagree. Even if the Spiderman movies had never come out, or been duds, I would still have picked AF 15 as the 2nd most important Marvel and ranked it along with FF 1 as the two automatic selections for any Top 5 pick. Spider-man more than any other title reflected the difference between Marvel's way of story telling and DC. I didn't, and don't, need the affirmation of a bunch of movie-goers and video game players to tell me that.

 

Similarly, X-Men #1 would have been an automatic Top 5 pick regardless of the success of the movies. The title in the 1970s singlehandedly revitalized Marvel and brought in new generations of fans. It was an important title for comic-related reasons, not because it crossed over into different media and became more popular amongst non-comic readers.

 

Let me put it a different way. Suppose the Punisher movie had been done well and become the biggest grossing movie of all time, and was a household name and every little kid wore Punisher pajamas? Would that elevate ASM #129 into the Top 5 (assuming for a moment that it wasn't a BA book )? Unless the title itself had been more influential from a pure comic perspective, I would say no.

 

I agree with everything you say about Spidey's impact when limited to just comics. But then again, Spidey has been a breakout media property for a long time, too... adding to his stature in the comics too. When I think of this list, I include all aspects of a comics influence on Marvel, and that extends to the characters introduced in it and their impact on comics AND beyond. They are inextricably joined - - one feeding off the other. Marvel published more titles about their best selling and most well-known characters.... like Spidey!

 

Maybe we need 2 lists: or three: Top 5 Marvels based on Comics only influence; Top 5 on character importance worldwide; and some other permutation... becaue I get the feeling we are all not using the same ground rules in this discussion.

 

As for the punisher analogy: If that movie did Spiderman numbers and a 200 million budget sequel was opening next summer. I think Punnys stock would rise. Not to the top 5 of course. But there'd be no denying his enhanced influence over Marvel, as he became their most heavily published and crossed-over character.. etc etc

 

I just dont think you can look at Spidey as JUST a comics phnomenon anymore... whereas 99% of the rest of Marvels characters are. The media tie-ins, especially when successful add importance to thei first comic appearances in our minds (most of us anyway!) . Thats all Im saying

[FFB]

So popularity is the only measuring stick?

 

NO

 

Things like historical significance, influence on other characters/titles, and role in evolution of Marvel and comics in general, have no impact?

 

Of course they do... and so does their status and awareness in the real world. Clearly Spider-man's success as a licensing tool and billion dollar film franchise makes his first comic book appearance the #1 book on this list. How could it NOT affect his standing?

 

I agree with everything you said and am not going to engage Tim in a "putting words in my mouth" discussion.

 

Oh, except there's a typo in your second to last sentence. I fixed it for you above.

[uclapeterg]

what are you guys arguing about? No one said top grossing movies are the most important factor in our silly poll. But the handful of Marvel movies has affected the values of many of these books... and enhances their stature against characters without movies and licensing deals to daste. Youd have to ne incredibly stubborn not to agree with that.

 

When you add everythung into the mix, movie success counts just as much as other factors.

 

and by the middle of July, we can add FF to the mix.

[uclapeterg]

Granted FF is ultra important because it was the first but I'd still have to give the nod to AF#15 simply because he has dominated the comic industry ever since. Clearly by far the most recognizable superhero in Marvel if not the whole world and this has been the case since the early 60's. Without a doubt he was Marvel's "franchise player" in the 60's, 70's and to this very day. I don't think any single character has even come close to taking his place.

 

you Spidey lover!

[Aces]

what are you guys arguing about? No one said top grossing movies are the most important factor in our silly poll. But the handful of Marvel movies has affected the values of many of these books... and enhances their stature against characters without movies and licensing deals to daste. Youd have to ne incredibly stubborn not to agree with that.

 

When you add everythung into the mix, movie success counts just as much as other factors.

 

and by the middle of July, we can add FF to the mix.

 

Mega Hit!

 

I got some FFs to sell!

[Silver Surfer]

Granted FF is ultra important because it was the first but I'd still have to give the nod to AF#15 simply because he has dominated the comic industry ever since. Clearly by far the most recognizable superhero in Marvel if not the whole world and this has been the case since the early 60's. Without a doubt he was Marvel's "franchise player" in the 60's, 70's and to this very day. I don't think any single character has even come close to taking his place.

 

you Spidey lover!

 

Hey I don't even buy his current stuff you FF apologist.

[uclapeterg]

what are you guys arguing about? No one said top grossing movies are the most important factor in our silly poll. But the handful of Marvel movies has affected the values of many of these books... and enhances their stature against characters without movies and licensing deals to daste. Youd have to ne incredibly stubborn not to agree with that.

 

When you add everythung into the mix, movie success counts just as much as other factors.

 

and by the middle of July, we can add FF to the mix.

 

Mega Hit!

 

I got some FFs to sell!

 

My feeling is that this movie will be huge. the LA Times printed a rating by the movie trailer posse (I guess a random group of kids - I didn't read the article ) and they rated Star Wars 3 No.1. They rated FF No. 4, Batman Begins No. 7 and War of the Worlds No. 11.

[Moondog]

SS:

 

If you reference my original list, I have AF 15 and ASM 1 second and third behind FF 1. It's clear that I respect Spidey's popularity and position today as the top Marvel super-hero by giving him 2 spots in the top 5.

 

That still doesn't mean that FF 1 is not the most important silver-age Marvel...

 

--Gary

[Silver Surfer]

SS:

 

If you reference my original list, I have AF 15 and ASM 1 second and third behind FF 1. It's clear that I respect Spidey's popularity and position today as the top Marvel super-hero by giving him 2 spots in the top 5.

 

That still doesn't mean that FF 1 is not the most important silver-age Marvel...

 

--Gary

 

Is such a toss up but 100 years from now Spidey will still be the main man. Probably should be a tie since we as he is obviously the single most important character in the Marvel universe.

[uclapeterg]

No! Without FF 1, there would have been no AF 15.

 

If FF makes $250 million, will that change anyone's opinions?

[FFB]

No! Without FF 1, there would have been no AF 15.

 

If FF makes $250 million, will that change anyone's opinions?

 

No. Should it? The first Spider-Man movie made almost twice that much domestically three years ago when the average movie price was lower. It set an opening weekend record that still stands. FF won't come close to Spidey's box office figure, nor will it ever come close to Spidey in popularity.

 

In my mind, the measure of what is the bigger "key" is ultimately collector demand. As to which of the two is in more demand, there is no question. It's AF#15 hands down.

[uclapeterg]

It just depends on what your requirements for being no.1. Is it popularity? Is it something else? I just think that Fantastic Four was more important to the Marvel universe than Spidey and you can't convince me otherwise. We agree to disagree. And it's not like we are in huge disagreement anyways. I, as well as probably most of the people arguring for the FF, put AF 15 No. 2.

[FFB]

It just depends on what your requirements for being no.1. Is it popularity? Is it something else? I just think that Fantastic Four was more important to the Marvel universe than Spidey and you can't convince me otherwise.

 

With proper training in brainwashing, I could.

[burntboy]

It just depends on what your requirements for being no.1. Is it popularity? Is it something else? I just think that Fantastic Four was more important to the Marvel universe than Spidey and you can't convince me otherwise.

 

With proper training in brainwashing, I could.

 

from one who was there when they both debuted on the newstands, and still has his original copies of each, FF#1 is number one and AF#15 is number two IMHO........

 

AF#15 was the first comic book to feature what was to become Marvels greatest success, but FF#1 got the whole ball rolling. without it's success there may well have been no Marvel universe. when AF#15 hit the stands, THE WORLD'S GREATEST COMIC MAGAZINE, was about to release it's 6th issue and because of it's popularity, go monthly.................everything else followed in many ways.......

 

since the poll has those two issues virtually tied for first place, i can understand the debate, and understand the viewpoint of the spidey fans, but this question was not structured as a "who's your favorite"....................

[Aman619]

I agree Burnt, but Im not so solid behind the whole "If this didnt happenned, that wouldnt either" arguments that come up. In "our reality" as the comics writers put it, FF1 led directly to AF15. But had Goodman seen dismal numbers for FF1, he might still have given Stan and Jack another few chances to get it right before throwing in the towel. The faliure of the Hulk didnt stop them from halting the line at FF..

 

IMO, as long as DC was making new sales with superhero books, Goodman was determined to give it a go.

[drbanner]

The faliure of the Hulk didnt stop them from halting the line at FF..

 

HULK NOT FAIL!! HULK ONLY REST!!

 

[Aman619]

[Mithril Man]

I just read the Stan Lee bio. I think if you asked Stan; he would list FF #1 at the top. I think AF #15 is second. I think Hulk #1 is third. X-Men #1 fourth (begrudgingly because I am a big X-Men fan and not so big a Hulk fan); followed by TOS #39.