1:10, 1:25, 1:50, 1:100 are DISTRIBUTION numbers, not PRINT RUN numbers. 0

[1950's war comics]

22 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Not sure I know what you mean? Is that what Clark Kent goes to the toilet in? 

that answers my question that England probably doesn't care too much for the super bowl (on today) you chaps all like soccer much better !

[IntoAnother]

On 10/13/2016 at 2:54 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

As an FYI to anyone concerned:

 

When a retailer incentive is a "1:25" or "1:100" or "1:5000", those numbers mean one thing, and one thing only: how many copies a retailer must order of the REGULAR copy to obtain (receive OR purchase) ONE copy of the incentive.

 

Other than that, those numbers have no meaning whatsoever..

 

They have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with establishing a "print run", other than helping to set a MINIMUM (which no one but the publisher and Diamond knows) number of the incentive required for DISTRIBUTION.

 

You cannot take "Comichron" numbers (which are, themselves, North American SALES numbers, NOT print numbers and which, by the way, INCLUDE the various incentives and variant sold, so it's impossible to sort them out), apply simple math (that is divide, say, the sales figure by 25 to "arrive" at the "1:25 print run") and come up with a number that has any meaning.

 

If Comichron says "85,234 copies were sold" that does NOT mean 85,234 copies were printed, and it does NOT mean that a 1:100 variant therefore was printed to the tune of 852 copies. Nor is 852 a theoretical "maximum", as some have claimed, because "not all orders qualified." That's absolutely true...but how many stores qualify has no bearing on the amount of incentive copies a publisher might print, other than establishing a MINIMUM that they need to fulfill those orders.

 

In other words, they are just guesses. They aren't even very GOOD guesses. Absent real information, a BAD guess, based on FAULTY reasoning, is NOT better than "no guess at all."

 

Unless the publisher releases the information, no one but the publisher and the printer knows how many of ANY retailer incentive is printed. Be very wary of those saying "well, they printed this many, because it was a 1:75, and Comichron says this, so that's how many there are."

 

Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Get Marwood & I]

2 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

that answers my question that England probably doesn't care too much for the super bowl (on today) you chaps all like soccer much better !

Soccer?

[Get Marwood & I]

4 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

  4 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

4 hours ago, Marwood & I said:

Good looking thread. Not seen it before. Some reading for this evening 

Great thread, very entertaining and informative on a number of levels.

In my green days, I used to think that 1:100 meant for every 1 variant there were 100 regulars, because I never gave it too much thought. It's an easy but false assumption to make, if you don't bother to think beyond superficial logic.

Obviously, it doesn't mean that. If a shop orders 150 regular copies,  they'll get only one 1:100 incentive variant. Etc.

One other variable that I would throw in, is the tendency for things not to go to plan. My shop ordered 50 ASM 667 regulars. Along with them came the 1:100 variant which I purchased with the regular copies for £9.99. I later sold it for £500 and thought it was Christmas. Now, I see that that I could've bought a new car if I'd kept it. Am I bitter? Not really. Life's too short. But I do wonder how my scenario happened, as my shop in theory shouldn't have got it.

I tried to ask this in the other thread, and got mauled by lions.    

 

 

[1webslinger]

sorry you got mauled in the other thread, why can't they just agree to disagree?

[Get Marwood & I]

3 minutes ago, 1webslinger said:

sorry you got mauled in the other thread, why can't they just agree to disagree?

Pride. They're lions, see. 

[1webslinger]

Now I get it.

[Jaydogrules]

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

 

Great thread, very entertaining and informative on a number of levels.

In my green days, I used to think that 1:100 meant for every 1 variant there were 100 regulars, because I never gave it too much thought. It's an easy but false assumption to make, if you don't bother to think beyond superficial logic.

Obviously, it doesn't mean that. If a shop orders 150 regular copies,  they'll get only one 1:100 incentive variant. Etc.

One other variable that I would throw in, is the tendency for things not to go to plan. My shop ordered 50 ASM 667 regulars. Along with them came the 1:100 variant which I purchased with the regular copies for £9.99. I later sold it for £500 and thought it was Christmas. Now, I see that that I could've bought a new car if I'd kept it. Am I bitter? Not really. Life's too short. But I do wonder how my scenario happened, as my shop in theory shouldn't have got it.

I tried to ask this in the other thread, and got mauled by lions.    

 

 

It's precisely what it means:  

https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/819?articleID=110712

Your question was answered (and I didn't "maul" you when I did ). Though when you originally asked it you didn't say anything about your LCS ordering 50 copies of the regular cover.  You originally simply said that your LCS did not usually order 100 copies of ASM.  That being the case, barring a mistake by Diamond (possible, but not likely) they did not receive the 1:100 as an incentive.  Period.  I also told you how a small LCS on a remote Canadian island received the copy of the 1:100 (through a secondary source) that I ultimately was able to acquire-  A more likely scenario for your LCS as well.  You said you sold your copy a long time ago and have no regrets.  If that really is the case, it sounds like it's probably best to move on at this point.  

-J.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Jaydogrules

[Get Marwood & I]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

It's precisely what it means:  

https://www.diamondcomics.com/Home/1/1/3/819?articleID=110712

Your question was answered (and I didn't "maul" you when I did ). Though when you originally asked it you didn't say anything about your LCS ordering 50 copies of the regular cover.  Your originally simply said that your LCS did not usually order 100 copies of ASM.  That being the case, barring a mistake by Diamond (possible, but not likely) they did not receive the 1:100 as an incentive.  Period.  I also told you how a small LCS on a remote Canadian island received the copy of the 1:100 (through a secondary source) that I ultimately was able to acquire-  A more likely scenario for your LCS as well.  You said you sold your copy a long time ago and have no regrets.  If that really is the case, it sounds like it's probably best to move on at this point.  

-J.

Shove it J.

[Lazyboy]

13 minutes ago, 1webslinger said:

sorry you got mauled in the other thread, why can't they just agree to disagree?

Because that doesn't protect their investments. They need to keep repeating the same old B.S. and shouting down any rational arguments against their made-up numbers.

10 minutes ago, Marwood & I said:

Pride. They're lions, see. 

Good job setting up that reply.

[Lazyboy]

7 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Your question was answered (and I didn't "maul" you when I did ). Though when you originally asked it you didn't say anything about your LCS ordering 50 copies of the regular cover.  You originally simply said that your LCS did not usually order 100 copies of ASM.  That being the case, barring a mistake by Diamond (possible, but not likely) they did not receive the 1:100 as an incentive.  Period.  I also told you how a small LCS on a remote Canadian island received the copy of the 1:100 (through a secondary source) that I ultimately was able to acquire-  A more likely scenario for your LCS as well.  You said you sold your copy a long time ago and have no regrets.  If that really is the case, it sounds like it's probably best to move on at this point.  

-J.

But you've claimed multiple times that it was nearly impossible to acquire any copies of the 667 variant right from the beginning. Now the story is that it was easy for small shops to get them through the secondary market?

[Jaydogrules]

2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

But you've claimed multiple times that it was nearly impossible to acquire any copies of the 667 variant right from the beginning. Now the story is that it was easy for small shops to get them through the secondary market?

I never claimed that anywhere.  Like most people I didn't even know the book existed until well after the fact.  

-J.

[Get Marwood & I]

5 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

But you've claimed multiple times that it was nearly impossible to acquire any copies of the 667 variant right from the beginning. Now the story is that it was easy for small shops to get them through the secondary market?

My shop got it the same time as the regulars. His delivery arrived. It had 50 regulars in it. And 1 variant.  He put them aside for me as he did all Spidey variants. I bought them. That's how I come to own 90% of my spidey variants. I picked them up from my LCS the same week I picked up the regular copies. Same with 678 and the rest. The only one he didn't get was 700. 

I often went to the shop and helped him open the boxes. That ensured I got the variants. I was a completist. The only thing that mattered was having a copy of everything. What it would come to be worth was of no interest to me at the time. To me, it was just another great variant. I really don't get all this bickering over numbers. There aren't many about. It's clearly rare. But to this day, I've seen no evidence of actual numbers. What does it matter? It's rare, and sells for a bomb to the right buyers. Great! Can't we leave it at that?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

28 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

1 hour ago, 1webslinger said:

sorry you got mauled in the other thread, why can't they just agree to disagree?

Because that doesn't protect their investments. They need to keep repeating the same old B.S. and shouting down any rational arguments against their made-up numbers.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, Marwood & I said:

In my green days, I used to think that 1:100 meant for every 1 variant there were 100 regulars, because I never gave it too much thought. It's an easy but false assumption to make, if you don't bother to think beyond superficial logic.

 

[Jaydogrules]

12 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

So let's talk about some real numbers then:

32- Copies on census after 6 1/2 years (a small fraction of multiple other rare variants/reprints from the era, including WD 100 red foil  (250 announced print run), Saga 1 DRS third printing (rumoured 500 print run) , Siege 3, Campbell (rumoured print run 400), Batman 608RRP (rumoured print run 400).

9- Slabs of any grade sold publicly in 6 1/2 years.  

3- Raw copies sold publicly in 3 1/2 years.  

1- 9.8 copies sold publicly in five years

0- Copies on eBay now.  

You should probably move on too, Don Quixote.  

-J.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Jaydogrules

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

[darkstar]

31 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So let's talk about some real numbers then:

32- Copies on census after 6 1/2 years (a small fraction of multiple other rare variants/reprints from the era, including WD 100 red foil  (250 announced print run), Saga 1 DRS third printing (rumoured 500 print run) , Siege 3, Campbell (rumoured print run 400), Batman 608RRP (rumoured print run 400).

9- Slabs of any grade sold publicly in 6 1/2 years.  

3- Raw copies sold publicly in 3 1/2 years.  

1- 9.8 copies sold publicly in five years

0- Copies on eBay now.  

You should probably move on too, Don Quixote.  

-J.

You understand that there are markets outside ebay, yes?

[darkstar]

32 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So let's talk about some real numbers then:

32- Copies on census after 6 1/2 years (a small fraction of multiple other rare variants/reprints from the era, including WD 100 red foil  (250 announced print run), Saga 1 DRS third printing (rumoured 500 print run) , Siege 3, Campbell (rumoured print run 400), Batman 608RRP (rumoured print run 400).

9- Slabs of any grade sold publicly in 6 1/2 years.  

3- Raw copies sold publicly in 3 1/2 years.  

1- 9.8 copies sold publicly in five years

0- Copies on eBay now.  

You should probably move on too, Don Quixote.  

-J.

Also you have routinely scoffed at the rumored Saga 1 variant print run. How odd that in this context you are perfectly fine using it to support your argument. You can't even pick a lane.

[RockMyAmadeus]

41 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

So let's talk about some real numbers then:

32- Copies on census after 6 1/2 years (a small fraction of multiple other rare variants/reprints from the era, including WD 100 red foil  (250 announced print run), Saga 1 DRS third printing (rumoured 500 print run) , Siege 3, Campbell (rumoured print run 400), Batman 608RRP (rumoured print run 400).

9- Slabs of any grade sold publicly in 6 1/2 years.  

3- Raw copies sold publicly in 3 1/2 years.  

1- 9.8 copies sold publicly in five years

0- Copies on eBay now.  

You should probably move on too, Don Quixote.  

-J.