ASM "Whitman" copies being sold as variants - legal?

[awe4one]

I guess I'll be selling all of my Marvel Whitmans to Jim (awe4one)

 

Do they have Mark Jewelers inserts?

 

Jim

[Darthdiesel]

With a little time and tape...anything's possible

[Tomega]

If you may be referring to me as far as the ASM #173 Whitman "Variant" from a couple of weeks ago, I can give you (for whatever good it will do) the name and location of the drug store I puchased it from around 1978 or so in Edison New Jersey, from a Whitman Bag (with blue Whitman logo on the top flap-part (with little hole to hang)...I knew the owner, and purchased many of these bagged comics, and remember them very very well, as it was when I was just starting to collect and read comic books.

 

Eric

 

PS: I cannot recall seeing "Whitman" stamped anywhere on a Marvel comic like some DCs.

 

 

so apparently you are going to scam again using the same tactic?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6530355447&fromMakeTrack=true

 

I guess I am missing something, that appears to be a Whitman version - no UPC , price/issue box different and the upper right corner has a box that says Spider-man. Of course, Iam comin gin late here and did not read all the posts.

[ASM-completist]

Well then, go back and read all of the previous posts. The copies sold in Whitman bags were simply re-packaged direct editions and are NOT variants. So people buy his stuff thinking it is a variant and pay more than it is worth.

[tay666]

What a lot of people aren't understanding here is that to a huge portion of the collecting hobby, the early direct Marvel comics are considered Whitman's.

That is the only way any of us ever saw a direct copy. In a Whitman 3 pack at one of the local stores.

For years they have been called Whitman's because that is what most of the mail order comic places referred to them as (since they always said they weren't interested in purchasing/trading for them as back then, most people thought they were reprints)

Just because they don't say Whitman, and direct versions were available in a few other places than Whitman 3 packs, does not change that impression for a large portion of the community.

Old habbits die hard.

 

As for them being more valuable. I don't think so. At least for most of them.

Though there are some dealers that are now selling them at a premium.

 

Same goes for later newstand editions. As the direct market took up more of the production, newstand editions got scarce. To the point now, where some dealers/sellers are trying to sell them at higher prices.

 

For some issues, I would be willing to pay slightly more for more recent newstand or early direct Marvels, I can't see paying any kind of multiple of guide.

[Samruby]

There is no scam. There is no "tactic". The book is not a newsstand version/ copy, and many times referred to as a "Whitman" (notice the " "'s), right or wrong. The auction describes that it was originally sold in a 3-pack bag.

 

Yes, looking at the description once again, the only thing that will change in the future is the final sentence not including the word "Whitman 3-pack bags", but rather "3-pack bags" instead. The use of the word or description "Whitman" is semantics to me and that may be a personal choice, but a choice made over 25 years ago, long before I sold one comic, or began my "scam". There is absolutely nothing sinister behind this choice.

 

The fact remains that the comic is still a variant, and whether or not an individual collector infers any additional "premium value" from any variant, promotional comic, mail-away, or other non-newsstand/ (more currently) non-direct comic for that matter, is decided upon by the collector, and the collector only.

 

As far as what constitutes a "variant", Again: It is up to the collector on what he or she wants to collect and consider a variant. It is not up to any one of us to decide that for them. I have received many e-mails and have communicated from hundreds of variant collector's (mostly Spider-Man) from around the world, and many even consider (actual) newsstand versions (with inclusion of the UPC) to be variants presently as opposed to the more common direct editions.

 

Unless you are in someone's head, can read minds, or know for a fact that the seller is "scamming", labelling another seller's auction(s) as a "scam" is irresponsible,

 

Eric

[Samruby]

 

Exactly what I have been trying to say. While many of these variants are not "Whitman" variants, they will continue to be referred to as "Whitmans", for at least the forseeable future.

 

This is neither right nor wrong. Minolta copy machines are still referred to as "Xerox's" by many. Jell-O is still referred to as Jell-O, whether or not Jell-O actually made the product.

 

It is all semantics, and the only true point that is important enough to be conveyed is that the version of the comic is different than what was on the stands in 7-11's, drugstores, and other newsstands,

 

Eric

[Samruby]

So people buy his stuff thinking it is a variant and pay more than it is worth.

 

Always nice to see how just 1 "Whitman" sale (with one current) can be representative of well over 5,000 Spider-Man comics sold on e-bay alone.

 

Also, is your opinion that these comics are not variants gospel?

 

Repackaging of a comic is irrelevant to most hardcore Spider-Man variant collectors. In only limited instances when the package is unopen, will it matter to some. There is a "visual" difference in the comic that makes these variants to many collectors, whether it is a blank UPC, a starburst, a diamond, etc.

 

There are a number of more modern (90's) Spider-Man comic (hard plastic and cardboard) packages, but there is no visual difference in the actual comic itself, sold mostly in Toys R' Us stores and the like.

 

Anything that can differentiate from the acceptible norm (newsstand up to around 1980/ direct since) as far as a comic book goes, can (and will) be considered a variant by many collectors, whether or not you, me, or anyone else views that as right or wrong,

 

Eric

[Samruby]

Same goes for later newstand editions. As the direct market took up more of the production, newstand editions got scarce. To the point now, where some dealers/sellers are trying to sell them at higher prices.

 

For some issues, I would be willing to pay slightly more for more recent newstand or early direct Marvels, I can't see paying any kind of multiple of guide.

 

Like I said in my previous rant, I am receiving more and more inquiries concerning these "variants", each and every month. I honestly do not care (plus it would take forever to re-do all the inventory), but if demand gets to be much greater, I may have to re-think that decision,

 

About a year ago, I had one collector insist that these were indeed variants, and argued quite loudly about it...Time will only tell for these "variants",

 

Eric

[FFB]

Same goes for later newstand editions. As the direct market took up more of the production, newstand editions got scarce. To the point now, where some dealers/sellers are trying to sell them at higher prices.

 

For some issues, I would be willing to pay slightly more for more recent newstand or early direct Marvels, I can't see paying any kind of multiple of guide.

 

Like I said in my previous rant, I am receiving more and more inquiries concerning these "variants", each and every month. I honestly do not care (plus it would take forever to re-do all the inventory), but if demand gets to be much greater, I may have to re-think that decision,

 

About a year ago, I had one collector insist that these were indeed variants, and argued quite loudly about it...Time will only tell for these "variants",

 

Eric

 

Time HAS told. They aren't variants. They are regular direct market copies that were heat sealed by distributors into Whitman bags. It is dishonest for you to claim that they are somehow different from any other regular direct market copy.

[Darthdiesel]

But the are different. They were heat sealed in bags

[Samruby]

While these comics are (and I have been agreeing to this all along) direct market versions, "Whitmans" are markedly different from your usual comic-store direct market versions of today. According to my own experiences that happens to agree with the web-site from http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/Direct/index.htm detailing "Whitmans" and the true direct market (comic-shop) individual issue's history: Western Publishing distributed specifically modified comics (for a non-returnable basis) in Whitman 3-Packs from 1977 to 1979, but in May of 1979, Marvel began to include these modified comics in their subscription program. This is where things got a little more confusing to some.

 

"Whitmans" were sold in 3-pack bags, and yes, many of the post-5/79 unsold issues were sealed up and sold in a similar fashion as their "predecessors" by many retailers, and distributors. The main difference? Pre - May 1979 direct market issues were not sold outside of these 3-packs (retail-wise), and I never seen one, or even heard of one sold in this manner. Yes, there were those who used to break open the bags (me included) to purchase only the issues they were interested in, but Non-UPC, "starburst", line-through-UPC, diamond, and all the other versions of these comics were not sold in 7-11's in New Jersey, newsstands in NYC, on spinner-racks anywhere at convienance stores in Vermont, Florida, Pennsylvannia, and various other states. They were sold in 3-packs in toy stores, grocery stores, and department stores. Even the relative few comic dealers of the day from Englishtown and the Route US 1 flea market's (very well known in NJ, NY and tri-state area) even sold a few as they came that way.

 

I stopped seeing the 3-packs in stores around ASM #190 or so, and it is pretty interesting to note that the grids on the above mentioned site indicate at this time (March and April of 1979) had only two titles with entries: Shogun Warriors & Micronauts, both of which I remember seeing 3-packs with the first three issues of each title back then. It is quite apparant that were was some sort of "transition" in these two months, before the May 1979 "true" direct market began.

 

I was there collecting in the late 1970's. I bought "regular" newsstand comics. I bought these direct/ Whitman/ 3-packs comics. They (obviously) varied by the look of the comic, therefore making them a variant. I collected them as variants (and later gave them away to a friend) because I personally did not like the "look" of the "Whitmans". I later went back and collected them once again for personal reasons. These comics stuck out like a sore thumb back then, when compared to the norm, which was the newsstand copy.

 

Again, whether you, or anyone else would like to think that the importance of this variance is enough to warrant labelling the comic as a variant is not for you or anyone else to say. It is up to the personal collector. This really should not be too difficult to understand. These comics are different, and if they were not, this discussion would not be taking place. Either that, or maybe you would like to call the "Variant Police" for us "dishonest" people,

 

Eric

[spidey_geek-migration]

That does it, I am going to seal, in bags, my older direct editions and sell them as "Spidey Variants". Of course, I will obviously put "limited edition" stickers on the bags. Wait, maybe it is better if I simply sell my old direct editions as "Whitman variants". Yes, that is much easier, I have tons of them, and can get many more cheaply. I will be able to take advantage of people recognizing the term, Whitman, from their earlier years. Ebay will not have the knowledge to accuse me of keyword (Whitman) spamming so my listings will not get pulled as they should. There might be a select few that accuse me of scamming but I can simply state that I was the original buyer of these comics in their bags and just removed them. Of course, I will not have any proof and there are no distinguishing marks from the direct editions to make them variants. Oh well, that is irrelevent because what makes a comic a variant is up to the collector on what he or she wants to collect and consider a variant. Hmmm, I wonder if CGC or another professional grading company would ever put "Whitman variant" on the label of these ASM issues. I know they do it for certain other Whitman copies but they all have distinguishing marks on them. I am guessing no but perhaps one of my future buyers will get one graded and correct me. Even Overstreet does not recognize the existence of an ASM Whitman variant which is odd because they are generally considered an authority on comic history/grading. I will just hope that buyers will think OS's mention of certain ASM issues being sold in Whitman 3 packs equates to them as being variants. I never thought of it but since I have my own ASM WWW site and obviously have a direct knowledge of ASM history, buyers will even moreso think my variants are legit. Even popular WWW comic database sites claim they are variants. If anyone still disbelieves me after questioning me, I can point them to those sites as more proof. I will make hundreds of dollars from unknowing individuals. My feedback is great so even if the neg me, it won't affect it enough.

 

Yea, this is gonna be easy.

[Samruby]

Wow, that was a pleasure to read, and so eloquently stated,

 

1. If you have "tons" of them, you are in the vast minority since they had a lower print run, and are currently more difficult to find.

 

2. As it is with many of the "Comic-Hypochondriacs", it is a shame that if they cannot spend as much time and effort in searching for "keyword spammers" and the like, as they would (and could) in more important matters in life than a 1 in 5,000 sale from a very reputable dealer. I have never scammed anyone, and if I did, I doubt very much that I would garner a rating and sales that I presently do. I know I am not alone here.

 

If anyone would like to point out any other auction that they feel is intentionally fraudelent, feel free to do so...I am very "robotic" in my auctions, with very little hype or fanfare.

 

3. Concerning your statement that "I will not have any proof and there are no distinguishing marks from the direct editions to make them variants"...The "Whitman" comics from 1977 to 1979 are obviously different from the newsstand versions, and one would have to be brain dead to see otherwise.

 

4. The use of the term "Whitman" is an acceptible term (from talking to many collectors from around the world, and from just viewing the search of these boards for the word "Whitman") in a description of these comics, and is obviously not used literally, especially when one notices the " "'s.

 

5. Yes, OS is an authority on variants...I have a standing offer to buy every ASM 35 cent variant for full price guide, and everyone knows that the 30 cent variants are harder to obtain since they have a higher value in their recent price guide.

 

6. Feel free to make hundreds of dollars, since everyone knows I became so rich from a sale of exactly one of these sales on e-bay,

 

An absolute "P" in the ocean, yet people complain. People on these boards argue about anything and everything just to be "right". Even those who just registered. This is one reason why I do not talk much on this forum (whether anyone truly cares or not). I stand back, keep my mouth shut, and try to learn about this hobby from the less argumentive and more informative posters.

 

If anyone buys anything from me that they feel is not truly described properly in this "Whitmans" fashion, feel free to return the comic(s) for a full refund. I doubt very much that the many collectors that have inquired about "Whitmans" from me over the last couple of years were influenced by me or my site in any way since I (at least presently) do not refer to them as variants on the comic/ cover gallery, nor do I have/ had them for sale as such in my back issue section,

 

Eric

[howardhallis]

Sorry to promote my own auction, but I figure folks who read this thread might be interested in checking out what I put in Comics Marketplace:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=809128&an=0&page=0#809128

[ASM-completist]

People better hurry and bid on these "Whitman variant" auctioins too. After a very QUICK search, the following popped up.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=6529680731&rd=1 - 5 of them

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=6529636550&rd=1 - another 5

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=6530725915&rd=1

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=6530726151&rd=1 - 2 of them

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=6530954773&rd=1 - 3 of them

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33819&item=2281242041&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V - blank box, better buy this variant ASAP

 

 

They are in great condition and the prices are fabulous, especially for being Whitman variants!!!! Why don't the sellers mention tham as being Whitmans?

[howardhallis]

But besides the last one, all the other auctions had regular UPC boxes. I'm telling you, THAT is the sign of a Whitman variant!

[ASM-completist]

Give me proof. That is all I want. I am dying to know the truth and would love to be corrected by someone that has proof. If your so-called Whitman's had blank UPC boxes, then what did the direct editions have? Show me a direct edition WITHOUT a blank cover box, and I will start to believe you. Betcha' can't find one.

 

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35765&item=6523066760&rd=1&ssPageName=WD1V

 

Here is an ASM 174 "Whitman" too.

[Tomega]

Does anybody know of any X-Men Whitman "variants?"

[THE_BEYONDER]

Show me a direct edition WITHOUT a blank cover box, and I will start to believe you. Betcha' can't find one.

 

 

How much?