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Where is the cut-off point?

Started by Ssantoss,

41 posts in this topic

Ssantoss

Ssantoss

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Posted

I was looking at the sales figures (or is it distribution figures) for december and noticed that the numbers for some titles are quite low. Scarlet Witch (which I enjoy) are around 12000+, Cage! (which I cant stand because of the artwork) hovers below 20000, and Insexts are as far down as 2800-and change issues. The last is not a marvel title, sure, but that still sounds awfully low.

 

Even stronger characters like Daredevil and Deadpool is around 40000, which sounds low in my ears. Where is the cut-off line where a company will deem a title unprofitable and end it? I would hazard a guess that it is way lower for a small company than for giants like Marvel and DC?

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Series seem to be made in shorter anthology series types of runs.

The last incarnation of Eternal Warrior went 15 issues. The run before that went 8 issues. This is perfect when putting together trade paperbacks.

 

The comic companies seem to be putting together seasons of comic titles and once the story has run its course its time to reprint and start up again.

 

As the Smiths said,

"Re-issue! Re-package! Re-package!

Re-evaluate the songs

Double-pack with a photograph

Extra track (and a tacky badge)"

 

Paint a Vulgar Picture

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bababooey

bababooey

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I was looking at the sales figures (or is it distribution figures) for december and noticed that the numbers for some titles are quite low. Scarlet Witch (which I enjoy) are around 12000+, Cage! (which I cant stand because of the artwork) hovers below 20000, and Insexts are as far down as 2800-and change issues. The last is not a marvel title, sure, but that still sounds awfully low.

 

Even stronger characters like Daredevil and Deadpool is around 40000, which sounds low in my ears. Where is the cut-off line where a company will deem a title unprofitable and end it? I would hazard a guess that it is way lower for a small company than for giants like Marvel and DC?

 

For Marvel if you can think of a few series that got cancelled outright (not rebooted nor intentionally ended) then you can look at some of the www.comichron.com historical NA sales figures to try and get an idea of when the hammer might drop by researching sales figures of those cancelled titles.

 

There are other variables that might affect cancellation positively or negatively such as talent moving on leading to premature cancellation or Marvel might continue a poorly selling title if they've got plans for character development.

 

Having said all that, you could just wait for Hado to post here, he's a Spider-woman fan so he probably knows the exact number.

:baiting:

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Ssantoss

Ssantoss

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This got me googling like a neurotic squirrel, seems like many marvel titles will be getting the axe while others being re-branded, re-nnumbered and re-whatever. *sigh*

 

It looks like 18000 is the magical number for Marvel. At least this gives me a general indication of what I'm going to tell my local dealer to discontinue sending my way (no more of that atrocious "Cage!" stuff), time to focus on older parts of the collection again. (and keep dreaming of those legendary dollar-bins that I see being mentioned here on the boards from time to time).

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shadroch

shadroch

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Thirty years ago, 130,000 sales or less would put a Marvel into bi-monthly status. At that point, it had a couple of issues to recover or be canceled.

Just a point of reference to show how far the market has fallen.

Then again, the market wasn't as fragmented.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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Thirty years ago, 130,000 sales or less would put a Marvel into bi-monthly status. At that point, it had a couple of issues to recover or be canceled.

Just a point of reference to show how far the market has fallen.

Then again, the market wasn't as fragmented.

 

Yeah, but then they had to print 250,000 copies to get those sales and trash half the print run. Now, without that significant waste and with other changes, the threshold can be a lot lower.

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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It still astonishes me that after almost ten years I STILL... repeat STILL have a free subscription to Rolling Stone magazine that I have never paid for. Ticketmaster or a band's website gave me a free trial subscription that has never ended. Every now and then they tell me that my subscription is about to end... and they continue to send me a copy anyway.

 

I've brought that up before and you all suggested that it was to maintain numbers for advertisers. I wonder if it is the same with comics in a way.

 

If today's comics are no longer reaching the same publication numbers as issues from 20 years ago, then perhaps allowing more titles published in smaller numbers reach print satisfies certain contractual agreements with publishers.

 

That way a book only reaching 20,000 is still part of a bigger whole under the newer contracts so long as Marvel or DC or whoever is still publishing an overall 'X' amount of books each month.

 

Just a thought as to why certain books are allowed to see print even when not heavily ordered. This is speculation on my part.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

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Thirty years ago, 130,000 sales or less would put a Marvel into bi-monthly status. At that point, it had a couple of issues to recover or be canceled.

Just a point of reference to show how far the market has fallen.

Then again, the market wasn't as fragmented.

 

Yeah, but then they had to print 250,000 copies to get those sales and trash half the print run. Now, without that significant waste and with other changes, the threshold can be a lot lower.

 

30 years ago, neither Marvel or DC were trashing half the print runs. The direct market was well on its way to becoming the dominant distribution point by then. Some titles were not even distributed to newsstands.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

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Thirty years ago, 130,000 sales or less would put a Marvel into bi-monthly status. At that point, it had a couple of issues to recover or be canceled.

Just a point of reference to show how far the market has fallen.

Then again, the market wasn't as fragmented.

 

Yeah, but then they had to print 250,000 copies to get those sales and trash half the print run. Now, without that significant waste and with other changes, the threshold can be a lot lower.

 

30 years ago, neither Marvel or DC were trashing half the print runs.

 

From the SoOs covering 86/87:

 

Adventures of Superman - Print Avg. 307,033 Dist. Avg. 162,838 (53% distributed)

Batman - Print Avg. 294,779 Dist. Avg. 193,980 (65.8% distributed)

Incredible Hulk - Print Avg. 320,673 Dist. Avg. 153,826 (48% distributed)

Web of Spider-Man - Print Avg. 437,255 Dist. Avg. 243,007 (55.6% distributed)

X-Factor - Print Avg. 568,382 Dist. Avg. 340,982 (60% distributed)

 

(shrug)

 

The direct market was well on its way to becoming the dominant distribution point by then.

 

Sure, and the (distribution %) numbers were generally improving.

 

Some titles were not even distributed to newsstands.

 

Marvel/DC titles without newsstand distribution were definitely the exception.

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F For Fake

F For Fake

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This got me googling like a neurotic squirrel.

 

Squirrels know how to use Google? That's it, I'm heading to my bunker, the end is nigh!

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ComicConnoisseur

ComicConnoisseur

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Thirty years ago, 130,000 sales or less would put a Marvel into bi-monthly status. At that point, it had a couple of issues to recover or be canceled.

Just a point of reference to show how far the market has fallen.

Then again, the market wasn't as fragmented.

All the markets have fallen since 30 years ago.

Lower TV ratings for hit shows.

Lower music sales for top artists.

Comic books are just following the same pattern.

It`s about niche now or fragmented as you say.

 

Also comics were like .50 cents back then, so .50 cents seems a lot easier to move in higher volume numbers than the $2.99 to $3.99 copies we have today.

 

 

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F For Fake

F For Fake

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This got me googling like a neurotic squirrel.

 

Squirrels know how to use Google? That's it, I'm heading to my bunker, the end is nigh!

 

No wonder they keep making Terminator movies...it was never the machines!

 

IT. WAS. THE. SQUIRELLS.

 

:ohnoez:

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valiantman

valiantman

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More relaunches means more #1s means more "collectible" variants means more suckers buying.

 

Bring on "The Incontinent Iron Man"!

 

Inexcusable Hulk

Unintelligible X-Men

 

 

 

Superfluous Spider-Man

 

I was also thinking of titles that would probably sell poorly as a result of frustrated fans.

 

Example:

 

Parka Power Girl

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Ssantoss

Ssantoss

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This got me googling like a neurotic squirrel.

 

Squirrels know how to use Google? That's it, I'm heading to my bunker, the end is nigh!

 

No wonder they keep making Terminator movies...it was never the machines!

 

IT. WAS. THE. SQUIRELLS.

 

What, you thought Squirrel Girl was fiction? :grin:

 

 

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