Are we experiencing a comic book renaissance? 1 1

[chrisco37]

16 minutes ago, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

I think if the price point of comics were lower it would help get new readers. You would think since Marvel and DC are owned by huge companies profit margin wouldn't be such a big factor.

And why can't we have comics distributed everywhere like in the good old days?

Agree on the price point.    It's just too high for most parents to drop on monthly reads for kids.   And, I think kids would really eat them up.  I've bought my daughter (who wasn't a big reader initially) the series of graphic novels by Raina Telgemier (Smile, Sisters, Drama, Ghosts) and she eats them up.   Her cousins do as well.  But those books are only $14 or so for 100's of pages.   $3.99 for a 22 page half-story just isn't going to pull in lots of younger kids. 

For those of you with younger kids (especially girls), I can't recommend those Raina books enough.   Just fantastic stuff for them. 

[Aweandlorder]

2 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Definetely a bunch of similarities.  People don't have the ability to listen to the records and people seem to have little interest in reading the books.  The prime records go for big money while the rest are $1 a piece at a garage sale. 

Lot of similarities with the collectors of said markets, but not in behavior. Example; vinyl sales are evolving around genres/music styles as opposed to press numbers. So as an example, most obscure, experimental or electronica records which had minuscule press run (500-1000 copies) and were sold out and received some level of recognition in their respected markets have hardly appreciated in price. Whereas other genres like Punk, Italo Disco, have very strong sales numbers

[Artboy99]

I hope there is a resurgence of buyers for collectibles/ Comics as the last year was pretty slow around these parts for sales.

 

[STORMSHADOW_80]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

Many reasons. For one, it would put comic book stores out of business, through which Diamond sells a ton of other stuff.

It's never going back to the old way.

Probably won't go back to the old way. Still comic stores were in business when it wasn't just Diamond. Books for sale in more places = more people buying books. It would be nice to see books on spinner racks again. Can you imagine Wednesday warriors hitting up different convenient stores to get the latest spec books?

[grebal]

The change in Ebay gross sales in Collectibles>Comics year by year, historically, would be very interesting as a metric for overall health of the market, even if you have to adjust for the heritages and upstarts and competitors like cc or clink etc.  Has anyone ever reported such metrics?

[zosocane]

I don't see a bubble.  I think the market is healthy and will remain healthy at least into 2020, if not beyond.  All you have to do it look at the slate of upcoming comic book movies and TV series for the next couple of years.  That is the crystal ball by which to judge the future of the hobby.  That slate of movie and TV projects tells me new buyers will keep coming in.  I don't see "new" collectors that came in 5 years ago because, e.g., the Avengers movie blew them away, suddenly decide now to leave the hobby.  Learning the intricacies of comic book collecting is much easier today than it was 15+ years ago thanks to incredibly useful resources such as these amazing Boards and the predictability and transparency brought by CGC and certain other third party grading services.   As hard as it is for me to grasp sometimes, there is such a broad-based demand in 2017 for the characters we marveled over on pulp paper 30, 40, 50 years ago.  Even when a movie bombs critically (BvS or SS), it still makes a ton of money.  Even the worst comic book movie ever made (FF 2015) was profitable.  I teach a class at my alma mater, and when I'm walking to class you know how many students I see on campus wearing Marvel t-shirts or toting a DC backpack?  Several.  These kids will have purchasing power in the near future.   These new-gen millenials might not have read comics growing up like we did, but comic book culture is a part of their life -- it's everywhere!  I was at a Target over the weekend and in the video/music section they had a display for Marvel and DC movies, posters, t-shirts, mugs, etc.  Posters with Bronze Age covers of Iron Man, Thor, etc.  23-year-olds are buying these and putting them in their apartments because they look 'dope'.  And unlike most of us growing up in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s when we were "in the closet" about our comic book passion, there is an open display of affection across all ages for these characters.  Oh, and lest we forget:  the Mouse owns Marvel.

That being said, buy what you like, but think twice about dropping money into Moderns (which to me is anything post-mid-80s to today).

[Lt. Eckhardt]

4 hours ago, STORMSHADOW_80 said:

I think if the price point of comics were lower it would help get new readers. You would think since Marvel and DC are owned by huge companies profit margin wouldn't be such a big factor.

And why can't we have comics distributed everywhere like in the good old days?

It is mind boggling to me why there isn't a comic book spinner rack as the first thing I see when I walk into Target or Walmart.  Keep in mind these place don't sell comics at all.  I think you would have so many new readers if new books were just mainstream and easily accessible. 

[Readcomix]

2 hours ago, Lt. Eckhardt said:

It is mind boggling to me why there isn't a comic book spinner rack as the first thing I see when I walk into Target or Walmart.  Keep in mind these place don't sell comics at all.  I think you would have so many new readers if new books were just mainstream and easily accessible. 

Agreed

[Readcomix]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

+1

This phenomenon is clearly evident as most buyers are chasing after only the keys and classic covers, while ignoring the non-key run books. 

Focus is definitely on buying more for investing and future resale, as opposed to buying for reading and retaining in your collection. 

I'm sure this is true in many cases, but I suspect (with myself as an N of 1) that some collectors are merely hitting a point in life where they've got a couple dozen or more long boxes of 40-plus year-old run books and minor keys and thinking, "If I unlock all the $10 bills in here tied up in books I don't remember or care about anymore, I can get a few of my grails." That's what I have been doing: downsizing lower price point items I long ago lost love for, and putting the money back into things I've always wanted. I still have plenty or run books, but a lot fewer, and none of the ones I knew I was never going back to. And more keys, cool covers and other pricey obscurities I've always wanted. From that outside, my curating can look a lot like the flippers, I e's probably more of them, but also probably more than just me curating in this way.

[Lt. Eckhardt]

From a clutter standpoint, I myself would prefer to a few really nice pieces as opposed to just long boxes of that I can't liquidate in an emergency.

[FineCollector]

My problem with collectors downsizing is treating everything that hasn't broken out in the guide as a run book.  Had Stan Lee not said Fantastic Four 51 was his favorite comic of all time, would that still be considered a great story, or would that get discarded with the rest?

We need more kids buying all the gems that you guys are tossing out in the hunt for bigger price tags.  Anyone think the big companies should be giving out those manga-sized compilations to elementary school libraries to prime kids to read their heroes?  I remember reading Spider-Man in the Electric Company, and seeing Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends on Saturday mornings, and no surprise, I started as a Marvel Zombie.

[ComicConnoisseur]

21 hours ago, 1Cool said:

Definetely a bunch of similarities.  People don't have the ability to listen to the records and people seem to have little interest in reading the books.  The prime records go for big money while the rest are $1 a piece at a garage sale. 

Actually you can make money with $1 collectibles/comics. Find 2 similar $1 comics and bundle them together and than flip them for $4, repeat process. It adds up quick. You could actually get 5 books for $5,than turn it into a bundle than sell for $10,than take it to another level with 10 to bundle to sell for $20. Keep upping the process. Not just for comics,but action figures,cards,records and video games.  Lot a work to it though. Soon as I mention the word work people lose interest. 

They all want to find that $1 comic/collectible and flip it for $500.

[1Cool]

I'm gong to go out on a limb and say we will never see another physical comic book renaissance that comes close to comparing to the 60 - 90s.  Comic books sold millions of copies of books like Donald Duck and X-Men to kids who quite frankly had very little entertainment at their finger tips.  Unless there is a massive EMP attack that destroys all electronic devices, the comic book industry will be designated as a niche collectible with hopefully a small loyal following of die hard fans.  And we will all be along for the ride so lets hope its a fun one.

[ComicConnoisseur]

43 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

My problem with collectors downsizing is treating everything that hasn't broken out in the guide as a run book.  Had Stan Lee not said Fantastic Four 51 was his favorite comic of all time, would that still be considered a great story, or would that get discarded with the rest?

We need more kids buying all the gems that you guys are tossing out in the hunt for bigger price tags.  Anyone think the big companies should be giving out those manga-sized compilations to elementary school libraries to prime kids to read their heroes?  I remember reading Spider-Man in the Electric Company, and seeing Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends on Saturday mornings, and no surprise, I started as a Marvel Zombie.

Some books have just more demand than others. The market dictates that Incredible Hulk#181 is more desirable than owning a run of Incredible Hulk #183 to #220.  I get what you are saying that people should show more respect for their other comics as well as their keys. With that I recommend that  Incredible Hulk #183 to #220 is a good read.  I also think that these bronze age/copper age run comics that collectors like you say got rid of to downsized will actually go up in value,not to the extant of mega keys,but a good little bump.

Edited February 24, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

7 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I'm gong to go out on a limb and say we will never see another physical comic book renaissance that comes close to comparing to the 60 - 90s.  Comic books sold millions of copies of books like Donald Duck and X-Men to kids who quite frankly had very little entertainment at their finger tips.  Unless there is a massive EMP attack that destroys all electronic devices, the comic book industry will be designated as a niche collectible with hopefully a small loyal following of die hard fans.  And we will all be along for the ride so lets hope its a fun one.

I agree with that. I am glad you said  physical comic book renaissance because the next real comic book renaissance that comes close to comparing to the 60 - 90s will be on the electronic devices(tablets,iPads).  I know myself I am reading  more comics,especially modern comics now than ever with Comixology and Marvel Unlimited. I am trying comics I would have never tried before thanks to the new technology,similar to Spotify with music. 

 

[NP_Gresham]

Bubble

When it bursts, the usual suspects will be wringing their hands and bemoaning that " How could anyone have seen this coming".

I almost wish it would happen sooner than later, to give it a softer landing.  But as long as you have the cheer leaders hailing the latest and greatest 'variant' cover, you will continue to see the balloon inflate.

It is unfortunate, but it has always been so, and so it must always be.  

[chrisco37]

58 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

Actually you can make money with $1 collectibles/comics. Find 2 similar $1 comics and bundle them together and than flip them for $4, repeat process. It adds up quick. You could actually get 5 books for $5,than turn it into a bundle than sell for $10,than take it to another level with 10 to bundle to sell for $20. Keep upping the process. Not just for comics,but action figures,cards,records and video games.  Lot a work to it though. Soon as I mention the word work people lose interest. 

They all want to find that $1 comic/collectible and flip it for $500.

Yep.   Takes more time to do it that way, but there's money to be made doing it.   Last show I set up at, I was selling common Jim Lee Batman issues for $5/pop.   Near the end of the show, I went over to another dealers table, pulled out about 7-8 copies of Jim Lee Batman's from his $1 box and refilled my stock to sell at a future show. 

[comicwiz]

Some interesting perspectives. Here's what I've noticed in 70's/80's toys and comics mostly, and watching several social media platforms being used in conjunction with free online classifieds and auction sites (both well known and less known venues).

Sites like Facebook, and to some degree Instagram, have created this unconventional platform for reselling that has formed around a concept of striking while the iron is hot.

Groups and hashtags are being used by people to move product in an atmosphere where the buyer and seller may both be willing participants, but they aren't always entering into a transaction that puts each at a level playing field. This is partly to do with the "groupthink" and "herd" mentalities that thrive in these communities, where an item is sold within minutes of it being listed. Most peculiar is the pattern of seing outrageous and obscene priced items selling just as quick and sometimes faster than those more sensibly priced.

This reminds me so much of the early days of the forum marketplace here, and a lot of the kinks got ironed out over time with rules and best practices, but many of them continue to fester in these communities with sellers who are fast and loose with disclosure, or are doing other unethical things. The incident recently discussed over at the Tec 28 thread illustrates one such issue, where someone asks for a collector price, and quickly turns to Facebook groups to flip it. And often it is stuff being resold from recently ended auctions on eBay, or lesser followed venues, but it's when the items are more valuable, less unique, that the community begins to get their backs up about people's practices.

And regardless of whether we agree on the "bubble-like" market tendencies, the issue is when people who have no business selling decide to enlist themselves to the duty. I'm talking amateur hour activities that range from bait and switch schemes, to plain laziness and ineptitude when fulfilling on their end of the transactional obligation.

These are familiar issues that sound like a bad rerun being played out in "new" venues to feed collectors addictions, but the thing that isn't familiar is the absolute cluelessness driving people's spending. In all my years collecting and selling PT, I have never had more people asing me if what they paid for an item is a "good price." 9 out of 10 times, they already purchased it. I know there's a strong correlation to this type of activity with newbies, but I'm talking about people who have been collecting for years also doing it. I've never seen people driving-up prices on things in such a short space of time like I have in the last two years of collecting. I'm not even as bothered that these markets are pricing out the sane and rational, but that someone is actually paying twenty years from now prices today!

Whether it's the new selling environments, everyone becoming a dealer, or a generation of people with more disposable income, the amount of people overextending themselves and overpaying will inevitably catch-up with all the hobbies experiencing this buyer frenzy. A credit crunch will of course be far worse at market correction than a situation where impulsive, short-sighted buying is moderated by gradual familiarization with concepts of price resistance. The fact it hasn't relented at all for this stretch of time leads me to believe collectors are gluttons for crash scenarios.

Edited March 6, 2017 by comicwiz

[Ken Aldred]

3 hours ago, FineCollector said:

Had Stan Lee not said Fantastic Four 51 was his favorite comic of all time, would that still be considered a great story, or would that get discarded with the rest?

I think it would be.  Regarded by so many FF fans as one of the true highlights of the Lee / Kirby run. A great SA comic book.

Edited February 24, 2017 by Ken Aldred

[LordRahl]

3 hours ago, NP_Gresham said:

Bubble

When it bursts, the usual suspects will be wringing their hands and bemoaning that " How could anyone have seen this coming".

I almost wish it would happen sooner than later, to give it a softer landing.  But as long as you have the cheer leaders hailing the latest and greatest 'variant' cover, you will continue to see the balloon inflate.

It is unfortunate, but it has always been so, and so it must always be.  

Gene (delekerste) was telling us all this in 2002 when I joined these boards. How's that worked out so far?