Hepcat Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: What I mean there has not been a increase in value on any other of the top books except for AF15 it seems for the last year or so. I know what you meant. And now you know what I meant too. Edited March 9, 2017 by Hepcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordysnordy Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, zhamlau said: Honestly the only reason he isn't 1 is because of his knees and its impact on shortening of his career. Talent wise no one can argue against him. And that's the great part about debating GOATS - different eras, injuries, length of career etc all play a part in the debate. zhamlau 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hepcat Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 (edited) Two words: Ty Cobb Edited March 9, 2017 by Hepcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAM_NYC Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Who knew the baseball discussion in the silver age comics forum would be better than the baseball thread in the WC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze johnny Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Jordysnordy said: And now he's in Vegas sitting in a mall signing autographed balls saying "hit king" after Ichiro passed his "professional baseball' record of hits. And he's very bitter and salty about that. The man was a very good player - to argue against that would be silly - but his life skills suck. I would even put Thurman Munson ahead of Rose as a fierce competitor in the same era, along with Brett. Despised by many, Munson was respected by most. It's amazing how Rose "apologists" continue to support his belonging in the Hall of Fame. Rose wasn't a victim of circumstances, he knew what would happen if he bet on the game. And he repeatedly lied about it before finally admitting it- an admission that came only after the evidence showed he bet on the games. ComicConnoisseur and zhamlau 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze johnny Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 12 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: The only athlete that anyone can say was the best and will never be surpassed in his sport in Wayne Gretzky in hockey he has 2851 points no other player has even reached 2000 points ever (maybe Jarg will but he will never pass Wayne not even close....he is at 1903 points and is 45 years old). Babe Ruth was great but based on stats alone Hank Aaron had a better career with almost 3800 hits and 755 home runs (never going to be placed as high a Babe because of his skin color and he did not play for the Yankees).....the Babe got less than 2500 hits and 714 home runs (OK he pitched a few years that does not make even a 3000 total hits candidate). All sports (baseball, basketball and football I am not talking about sports outside of these 4) are subjective (I exclude hockey because Gretzky will always be king). I don't want to go to far into sports on a comic book forum. Hank Aaron is the home run king. Oh Henry is also one of the greats. Yes, he compiled more than Ruth overall. Ruth on the other hand is the greatest ball player ever. Did you ever see a scenario where one ball player hit more home runs in one season than the entire league? Another reason why the Babe is the greatest. Amazing! What's wrong with his playing for the Yankees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC22 Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, bronze johnny said: Hank Aaron is the home run king. Oh Henry is also one of the greats. Yes, he compiled more than Ruth overall. Ruth on the other hand is the greatest ball player ever. Did you ever see a scenario where one ball player hit more home runs in one season than the entire league? Another reason why the Babe is the greatest. Amazing! What's wrong with his playing for the Yankees? Nothing wrong with the Yankees but their stars get more respect than say Stan Musial does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bronze johnny Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 9 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Nothing wrong with the Yankees but their stars get more respect than say Stan Musial does. 9 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Nothing wrong with the Yankees but their stars get more respect than say Stan Musial does. 9 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Nothing wrong with the Yankees but their stars get more respect than say Stan Musial does. The Yankees earned that respect by winning with Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle. Stan Musial gets a tremendous amount of respect- ask any Cardinals fan. My guess is that most real baseball fans with a passion for the game and its history (you can't have one without the other in baseball), deeply appreciate all the great players from the pre-steroids day. The shenanigans we've had to see with players juicing up to hit home runs made many of us long for Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Thurman Munson, Carlton Fisk, Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Tony Perez, Willie Stargell, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Ozzie Smith, Catfish Hunter, Roberto Clemente, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, etc... and despite his disgracing himself, Charley Hustle. I think we can all agree on this as a new season dawns upon us and our debates continue on about who's the greatest in this Silver Age Baseball Thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hepcat Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 14 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Nothing wrong with the Yankees but their stars get more respect than say Stan Musial does. I agree. And Stan Musial is way underrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hepcat Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, bronze johnny said: My guess is that most real baseball fans with a passion for the game and its history (you can't have one without the other in baseball), deeply appreciate all the great players from the pre-steroids day. The shenanigans we've had to see with players juicing up to hit home runs made many of us long for Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Johnny Bench, Gary Carter, Thurman Munson, Carlton Fisk, Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, George Brett, Mike Schmidt, Tony Perez, Willie Stargell, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Ozzie Smith, Catfish Hunter, Roberto Clemente, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, etc... and despite his disgracing himself, Charley Hustle. Truth! Edited March 10, 2017 by Hepcat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I click on a thread titled "What about other top SA books?" thinking there is some useful commentary on the SA market, and then I see the OP gets criticized for asking the question on the basis that a collector shouldn't worry about values, only to be followed by two pages of posts related to Rusty Kuntz, Pete Rose and other baseball greats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 On 3/9/2017 at 8:09 AM, zhamlau said: How you define Gretzky as the greatest really depends on how you define "greatest". Statistically of course, he had more assists than anyone else has points. Had he not been credited with scoring ONE goal in his NHL career he would still be the all time points leader. But an argument can also be made that his game was seriously lacking in a physical element. I'm not just saying fighting (think he only had 2 fights in his life), but overall physical play and checking which is a major part of the game he wasn't very good at. He just didn't do it. He had other guys like Semenko and McSorley basically protecting him and roughing up anyone who managed to even check him hard. That entire team was designed to give him every opportunity to score without interference. It was a good move they won 4 cups with him and that model, but it also really helped to inflate his offensive numbers. He only scored 50 goals one time after leaving Edmonton in the prime of his career. He scored a lot, but he had a LOT of help getting there in the highest overall scoring era the sport has ever seen. Hell Jimmy Carson and Craig Simpson had 50 goals seasons in that era (and oddly both played on Edmonton too at one point in their careers). Everyone was scoring in the 80s (hey now!). Offense was nuts when he played, no one touched the guy allowing him to score or set up goals at will, and the entire team was stacked with talent making his life easier. When he left that team his numbers came back down to earth (good but inline with other great players of the era). HE WAS STILL AWESOME and easily 2nd best of all time...but if talking entire game he wasn't number 1. I would say the best overall player in the NHL was Gordie Howe. IF you want I can go into his numbers and how in the ERA he played in his prime even having being a 50 goal scorer in the league was rare at times. I will just say this...He played NHL hockey in 5 different Decades...and every year he played he was either the best or one of the best. That fact alone to makes it hard for me to not say he was the best. Consistent total game performance during 5 different decades...mind blowing. Gordie Howe was not the best overall player. As I have seen old time writers have put it, hockey in the 50s is equivalent to Midget AAA (or a bit lower) today. It was much slower and less skilled than it was in the 70s, let alone 80s onward. Howe's greatest characteristic was his longevity. If you are looking at that type of player as the best overall, then I would argue that Messier was well ahead of Howe. Higher level of skill, faster, and just as brutally physical (or dirty) when he needed to be. I would put the list as Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux as top 3 in that order right now. Sure, the 80s had a ton of offense (thanks to the big jump in skilled play due to the European influence of the late 70s), but Gretzky was still a cut above anyone else due to his skill, vision and anticipation/hockey sense. His shot was sneaky and accurate as well. He scored 92 the one season, but he basically realized that he was more valuable setting up his teammates to score than potting the goals himself so he focused on that the rest of the way. He also did this with teams employing a shadow player (or two in some cases) that could clutch, grab, impede him all game (or until someone took care of them lol). As great as Lemieux was, he did not top 200 points. Gretzky did it Going forward, Connor McDavid has a shot at being the new best overall. He is a combination of Gretzky (vision, hands) and Orr (skating and agility), with decent size, good strength, and shutdown defender ability mixed in when he wants to. McDavid has the best stick I have seen defensively/offensively - watch the subtle little poke checks and stick lifts he does and when he does it. The way he positions players with his body is amazing to watch as well. McDavid needs to work on shooting in stride and if he masters that I can see him being a consistent 40+/year goal scorer. If the Oilers can provide him with a top end finisher I can also see him being able to top 150 points - he creates that many good to great scoring chances per game for his linemates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot6 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, kimik said: I would put the list as Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux as top 3 in that order right now. I feel that Maurice Richard needs to be in there probably at the expense of Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC22 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 19 minutes ago, Patriot6 said: I feel that Maurice Richard needs to be in there probably at the expense of Orr I would list my top 3 as Gretzky, Lemieux and Howe. Orr would be in my top 5....Richard somewhere in my top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntboy Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) Hands down, Babe Ruth Was/Is the greatest Baseball Player of all time. BA -HR -RBI are all world class but 90+ wins as a Pitcher puts him in another category all together. Simply unapproachable...IMHO. Edited March 11, 2017 by burntboy added stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC22 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, burntboy said: Hands down, Babe Ruth Was/Is the greatest Baseball Player of all time. BA -HR -RBI are all world class but 90+ wins as a Pitcher puts him in another category all together. Simply unapproachable...IMHO. Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. Edited March 11, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591 Text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisco37 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, burntboy said: Hands down, Babe Ruth Was/Is the greatest Baseball Player of all time. BA -HR -RBI are all world class but 90+ wins as a Pitcher puts him in another category all together. Simply unapproachable...IMHO. Wow! Harry!!! Good to see you still around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC22 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, chrisco37 said: Wow! Harry!!! Good to see you still around! Baseball brings people out.....gotta love the sport no matter who was the best!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burntboy Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 52 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. 47 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown 50 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. 50 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. 51 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. 52 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said: Great player for sure but I don't believe he was better than Cobb with his .366 or .367 life time average + almost 900 stolen bases + almost 4200 hits + 12 AL batting titles + AL homerun leader 1909 triple crown winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. winner + 1911 AL MVP. What hurts Cobb in any way is having not won a World Series ring. Ruth has a .342 life time average + 714 homeruns + 2873 hits + 12 time all time AL home run leader + 7 world series rings. Excellent points to be sure, but it doesn't tell the Babe Ruth pitching saga. He had a .671 winning percentage with a .228 ERA in 160+ appearances. he had a .87 ERA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC22 Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 1 hour ago, burntboy said: Excellent points to be sure, but it doesn't tell the Babe Ruth pitching saga. He had a .671 winning percentage with a .228 ERA in 160+ appearances. he had a .87 ERA Yes he pitched but who was the better batter....Cobb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
