General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[faster friends]

Just remember, CGC is firmly 100% on my side this time.

 

Bring it on!

 

I don't understand why any seller would be worried about 3% on a transaction. Far cheaper to sell here than anywhere else. Yes, this is a small marketplace, but sellers can list a book for free and name their price and if priced at market have a fair chance of selling. Heaven compared to ebay.

 

+1

 

Granted I only sell $30 to $300 books, But I'm not gonna cry over a $1 to $10 fee when I am getting paid instantly. Please.

[thehumantorch]

Just remember, CGC is firmly 100% on my side this time.

 

Bring it on!

 

I don't understand why any seller would be worried about 3% on a transaction. Far cheaper to sell here than anywhere else. Yes, this is a small marketplace, but sellers can list a book for free and name their price and if priced at market have a fair chance of selling. Heaven compared to ebay.

 

+1

 

Granted I only sell $30 to $300 books, But I'm not gonna cry over a $1 to $10 fee when I am getting paid instantly. Please.

 

And I paid you paypal personal....

[faster friends]

Just remember, CGC is firmly 100% on my side this time.

 

Bring it on!

 

I don't understand why any seller would be worried about 3% on a transaction. Far cheaper to sell here than anywhere else. Yes, this is a small marketplace, but sellers can list a book for free and name their price and if priced at market have a fair chance of selling. Heaven compared to ebay.

 

+1

 

Granted I only sell $30 to $300 books, But I'm not gonna cry over a $1 to $10 fee when I am getting paid instantly. Please.

 

And I paid you paypal personal....

 

SSSSHHHHH!!!!

[Bosco685]

[Mac Man]

For what it's worth John, the moderators often yank threads altogether when they see there are violations to guidelines. Also, I noticed other threads had similar postings like this so you certainly weren't be singled out. It just happens that your thread somehow became the conversational "dog pile" for members--and maybe that's the problem?

 

I typically don't even use the Personal Payment even with people whom I implicitly trust; instead, I opt to cover the fees myself. It's just a good rule of thumb to follow. And while I certainly do not sell in volume or frequency like you or others do, it's not that hard just to factor the 3% fee into your sale price, no questions asked.

 

Could just be me, but this is an easy rule to abide by and still not actually harm one's bottom line. :shrug:

[comix4fun]

Has anyone mentioned WHY Pay Pal created this option in the first place?

 

I didn't want to rehash if it had been.....umm.....hashed.

[Bosco685]

[Mac Man]

Has anyone mentioned WHY Pay Pal created this option in the first place?

 

I didn't want to rehash if it had been.....umm.....hashed.

 

I think it had something to do with the fact that they were going to be considered a bank-like entity if they continued with their previous model of business and this option allowed them to circumvent that (very resource-demanding) approach.

[Green]

Has anyone mentioned WHY Pay Pal created this option in the first place?

 

I didn't want to rehash if it had been.....umm.....hashed.

To dodge being regulated as a bank? JC is gonna need a bigger soapbox for that.

[asteroid-comix]

This board is full of shifty farks trying to get over on someone.

 

I didn't really have a problem with using paypal personal for board transactions as I figured sooner or later Paypal would halt the practice and, for the most part, I trust the people I buy from on these boards.

 

That trust is quickly eroding after the last few days and weeks of questionable behavior displayed.

 

I for one will not use the Personal Payment option for board transactions anymore as it is now a violation of the boards policy. Its all in my sig line.

 

 

I really don't think they said you can't use the personal option. What they said was you can not ask someone to pay you in that way. Why is everyone making this hard. Just stop advertising it and everyone will keep using it anyway

 

Right on the money (literally). Here's how it plays out going forward.

 

1. Paypal gets listed as an option, minus the personal option.

2. Seller states the price he wants for his drek.

3. Buyer pm's low-ball-totally-unreasonable offer to seller.

4. Seller counters with a pm of a more realistic price.

5. Buyer responds with another low-ball offer (no longer totally-unreasonable) and offers payment via paypal personal to save the seller 3%.

6. Seller agrees and buyer posts "takeit"

7. Buyer gets drek a week later and swears never to buy drek in a drunken stupor again.

 

(alternate/variant version of this timeline has seller responding back to buyer's low-ball-totally-unreasonable offer with more realistic price and payment via paypal personal)

 

 

[fantastic_four]

If folks are not willing to pay the price you require to do a sale, then maybe it is time to find another sales venue. But trying to cut corners that could jeopardize others on here being allowed to use PayPal could backfire in a big way if CGC is sent a "cease and desist" letter from PayPal for supporting unauthorized payment practices.

 

Unauthorized payment practices? That only applies if you accepted the PayPal terms of service, it doesn't apply to everyone everywhere in the world, and all it means is they'll cancel your PayPal account if you violate the terms. PayPal doesn't set market rules for everyone living anywhere on the planet. How are the CGC forums affected by the PayPal terms of service?

[comicdonna]

If folks are not willing to pay the price you require to do a sale, then maybe it is time to find another sales venue. But trying to cut corners that could jeopardize others on here being allowed to use PayPal could backfire in a big way if CGC is sent a "cease and desist" letter from PayPal for supporting unauthorized payment practices.

 

Unauthorized payment practices? That only applies if you accepted the PayPal terms of service, it doesn't apply to everyone everywhere in the world, and all it means is they'll cancel your PayPal account if you violate the terms. PayPal doesn't set market rules for everyone living anywhere on the planet. How are the CGC forums affected by the PayPal terms of service?

Isn't everyone required to accept the terms of service if they want to use paypal?

[fantastic_four]

If folks are not willing to pay the price you require to do a sale, then maybe it is time to find another sales venue. But trying to cut corners that could jeopardize others on here being allowed to use PayPal could backfire in a big way if CGC is sent a "cease and desist" letter from PayPal for supporting unauthorized payment practices.

 

Unauthorized payment practices? That only applies if you accepted the PayPal terms of service, it doesn't apply to everyone everywhere in the world, and all it means is they'll cancel your PayPal account if you violate the terms. PayPal doesn't set market rules for everyone living anywhere on the planet. How are the CGC forums affected by the PayPal terms of service?

Isn't everyone required to accept the terms of service if they want to use paypal?

 

Yes...but that's all on the buyer and seller. I don't see how it affects CGC enough to motivate them to care one way or the other, it's the seller who's at risk and only to his own PayPal account. The buyer would only be incurring the exact same risk they'd already incur by paying with check or money order, which is that the seller could choose to not give them their item.

[joe_collector]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists, as well as CGC being viewed as aiding users in contravening the Paypal TOS.

 

The way I look at it, there are only downsides to CGC allowing Paypal personal payments, and since CGC doesn't make a penny off board transactions, there is absolutely no upside.

[fantastic_four]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists

 

How? PayPal affords no protection to off-ebay purchases other than the lame complaint system, which at worst would only end up with the same penalty that asking people to pay with the personal option would--suspension of the seller's PayPal account. Scam artists have the same capacity to scam whether they offer any flavor of PayPal payment or not.

[Snake Eyes]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists

 

How? PayPal affords no protection to off-ebay purchases other than the lame complaint system, which at worst would only end up with the same penalty that asking people to pay with the personal option would--suspension of the seller's PayPal account. Scam artists have the same capacity to scam whether they offer any flavor of PayPal payment or not.

 

This is not entirely true. While paypal itself offers no protection here, if you operate your account off of a credit card only you retain the protection offered by the card. Therefore, while you as an individual may not run a business and accept credit cards, by accepting my paypal payment you can. This allows me to initiate fraud and/or chargeback processes if some sort of scam or misrepresentation is being run.

 

SE

[comix4fun]

Most of the CGC risk would be in terms of public relations, as allowing this is just opening up the door for scam artists, as well as CGC being viewed as aiding users in contravening the Paypal TOS.

 

The way I look at it, there are only downsides to CGC allowing Paypal personal payments, and since CGC doesn't make a penny off board transactions, there is absolutely no upside.

 

 

 

I agree to an extent. However, Pay Pal's terms of service don't say anything about accepting personal payments as a violation. Their only violation is a seller "demanding" or "asking for" personal payments. Unless a buyer complains about being forced to pay personal they don't have a recourse against it.

 

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments but if buyers want to offer to pay in that manner there's not much they can do about it.

 

 

Pay Pal NEEDS to have personal payments as an option, that's why they have such loose restrictions on it. They make far more money on the interest in their accounts on a daily basis than they lose off of personal payments. Without these personal payments they are considered a bank by the federal government. The cost of restructuring and the cost of oversight and the loss of various revenue streams they would lose under government oversight are FAR MORE than they lose on personal payments.

 

I don't feel sorry for Pay Pal, they know exactly what they are doing. The weighed the cost of becoming a bank over allowing personal payments and they chose the option that makes them the most money. They aren't getting hurt here.

[fantastic_four]

This is not entirely true. While paypal itself offers no protection here, if you operate your account off of a credit card only you retain the protection offered by the card. Therefore, while you as an individual may not run a business and accept credit cards, by accepting my paypal payment you can. This allows me to initiate fraud and/or chargeback processes if some sort of scam or misrepresentation is being run.

 

Still don't see the point of explicitly banning PayPal personal payments. It's not to ensure credit card chargebacks since there's no requirement for sellers to allow credit card payments in the first place.

[fantastic_four]

CGC should follow Pay Pal's requirements to the letter. They should not allow sellers to DEMAND personal payments

 

CGC shouldn't care one way or the other. The potential for fraud with PayPal personal is exactly the same as it is with check or money order.

[Snake Eyes]

This is not entirely true. While paypal itself offers no protection here, if you operate your account off of a credit card only you retain the protection offered by the card. Therefore, while you as an individual may not run a business and accept credit cards, by accepting my paypal payment you can. This allows me to initiate fraud and/or chargeback processes if some sort of scam or misrepresentation is being run.

 

Still don't see the point of explicitly banning PayPal personal payments. It's not to ensure credit card chargebacks since there's no requirement for sellers to allow them in the first place.

 

Changed gears on your argument a bit there...only commenting that there is a protective element to using your credit card to pay via paypal. As for explicitly banning payments, I do not think this is what the board has done (unless I missed something). Instead, it seems to me they have banned it as a requirement and banned the use of advertising it in a commercial/sales thread. Both moves make some sense to me...as mentioned in the discussion a few weeks/couple weeks ago I skipped threads that demanded personal payment (found it mildly insulting and put me off on the sellers that did...seemed to be a number of boardies who felt similarly and took business to other threads). That is just a personal reason though...without speaking to them (and therefore talking out my butt ) I assume CGC ended the public and required use of it due to the legal reasons noted above. They were putting themselves at legal risk (debatable if they would have been nailed, but risk was present nonetheless) for absolutely no gain on their end. Seems a no-brainer to me :shrug: Also, as moderators that do not intervene is specific sales a blanket ban like they issued would certainly make more sense and save them headaches down the road (complaints and exceptions and case by case basis issues...all areas they have no desire to delve into in my estimation).

 

SE