General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[joe_collector]

what issue of x-men would you use as cutoff between bronze and copper to comply with FS forums? thanks

 

X-Men 143

[EC ed]

...it's your seat and you can give it up to who you want.

 

And like I said, this "do a favor and give up the book to someone else" has been an unwritten board rule for some time

Let's push this discussion a little further (recall a few pages back I commented that both the issues of the "rights" of the initial taker AND the "rights" of the second taker were potentially thorny issues worthy of further discussion...):

 

Suppose the OP has a rule in their sales thread that they won't sell to someone on the PL/HOS. Then, the first taker of a book in that thread is best buds with someone on the PL, and wants to give up the book to that PL'er. Can they do so, if they want to?

[crassus]

...it's your seat and you can give it up to who you want.

 

And like I said, this "do a favor and give up the book to someone else" has been an unwritten board rule for some time

Let's push this discussion a little further (recall a few pages back I commented that both the issues of the "rights" of the initial taker AND the "rights" of the second taker were potentially thorny issues worthy of further discussion...):

 

Suppose the OP has a rule in their sales thread that they won't sell to someone on the PL/HOS. Then, the first taker of a book in that thread is best buds with someone on the PL, and wants to give up the book to that PL'er. Can they do so, if they want to?

 

I think most would answer "no", and I think that the rights of the buyer who planted the flag are conditional on pending payment. If you decided you don't want the book (which means you are no longer planning on paying for it) the rights revert back to the seller.

 

I think on a common sense level, most of the time, a seller is not going to care where a book goes so long as they are paid, and nobody cries foul and injustice. In most cases there will be no controversy, but I think that if there is a controversy it is obviously only the seller that determines the outcome. Until a book is paid for the book still belongs to the seller.

 

 

[seanfingh]

Is it just me or are all the sales threads about to get threadkrapped in hilarious ways?

 

I'm assuming the J Scott Campbell SSM 29 will be next, followed by the impending ECCC DC presale threads.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7523968&fpart=1

 

This one might be next, not threadkrapping IMO, but pointing out something that obviously should have been disclosed.

 

I'm selling a variant, but won't say who's it is... then CBT posts this:

 

If by not official you mean not approved by Image Comics, it is. I have no control over info at Image and don't know if or when they may choose to talk about variants

 

And no, I did not pay to produce this. I don't even know who the other retailers are. But I wish I had, I really love the cover!

 

k, well, thread is closed now anyway, but you are still being vague and choosing akward wording in your response.

 

Anyway, I got the info now:

 

 

You could have just said, "Menace produced the book, yes its a Home Brew variant solicited by a group of people, and I am pre-selling for them."

 

regardless of anything else, people have a right to know what they are buying. Full disclosure is necessary for sales threads to run smoothly. Love the cover on this book, but I'll stick to official variants.

 

Look's like the exclusive was/is Jake's (Menace / Mercenary Art Studios) and Troy actually seems to have known the whole time as well since he posted in the Facebook thread.

 

Proxy selling?

 

Considering that Menace's reputation is still being crushed by the weight of the Angel Medina debacle, proxy selling is quite likely.

[EC ed]

I think on a common sense level, most of the time, a seller is not going to care where a book goes so long as they are paid, and nobody cries foul and injustice. In most cases there will be no controversy, but I think that if there is a controversy it is obviously only the seller that determines the outcome. Until a book is paid for the book still belongs to the seller.

I agree. The only "right" the first taker has is to receive the book if and when they pay for it. Until that time, they control nothing.

 

If the first taker wants to pass along the book to a bud, it's completely up to the seller whether or not to allow that, period. I agree, in most cases it seems there would be no objection by the seller, it's all cool, and things run along smoothly. If my hypothetical scenario comes to pass and the first taker wants to pass the book to a PL'er, the seller simply says "Absolutely not, I won't allow that. If you want the book to go to that PL bud of yours, feel free to sell it to him yourself after you've paid me and you have the book in your own hands." Right? In other words, the first taker technically has no "rights" other than to receive the taken book when paid for...then, and only then, do they have control over the fate of the book. Has to be this way, no?

[comix4fun]

Is it just me or are all the sales threads about to get threadkrapped in hilarious ways?

 

I'm assuming the J Scott Campbell SSM 29 will be next, followed by the impending ECCC DC presale threads.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7523968&fpart=1

 

This one might be next, not threadkrapping IMO, but pointing out something that obviously should have been disclosed.

 

I'm selling a variant, but won't say who's it is... then CBT posts this:

 

If by not official you mean not approved by Image Comics, it is. I have no control over info at Image and don't know if or when they may choose to talk about variants

 

And no, I did not pay to produce this. I don't even know who the other retailers are. But I wish I had, I really love the cover!

 

k, well, thread is closed now anyway, but you are still being vague and choosing akward wording in your response.

 

Anyway, I got the info now:

 

 

You could have just said, "Menace produced the book, yes its a Home Brew variant solicited by a group of people, and I am pre-selling for them."

 

regardless of anything else, people have a right to know what they are buying. Full disclosure is necessary for sales threads to run smoothly. Love the cover on this book, but I'll stick to official variants.

 

Look's like the exclusive was/is Jake's (Menace / Mercenary Art Studios) and Troy actually seems to have known the whole time as well since he posted in the Facebook thread.

 

Proxy selling?

 

Considering that Menace's reputation is still being crushed by the weight of the Angel Medina debacle, proxy selling is quite likely.

 

 

 

This is your face

 

 

 

This is your face under the "Angel Medina Debacle"

[bababooey]

I think on a common sense level, most of the time, a seller is not going to care where a book goes so long as they are paid, and nobody cries foul and injustice. In most cases there will be no controversy, but I think that if there is a controversy it is obviously only the seller that determines the outcome. Until a book is paid for the book still belongs to the seller.

I agree. The only "right" the first taker has is to receive the book if and when they pay for it. Until that time, they control nothing.

 

If the first taker wants to pass along the book to a bud, it's completely up to the seller whether or not to allow that, period. I agree, in most cases it seems there would be no objection by the seller, it's all cool, and things run along smoothly. If my hypothetical scenario comes to pass and the first taker wants to pass the book to a PL'er, the seller simply says "Absolutely not, I won't allow that. If you want the book to go to that PL bud of yours, feel free to sell it to him yourself after you've paid me and you have the book in your own hands." Right? In other words, the first taker technically has no "rights" other than to receive the taken book when paid for...then, and only then, do they have control over the fate of the book. Has to be this way, no?

By posting the first he's secured the 'right to purchase' for 30 days according to the rules.

I agree that any of this deferring should only be done if the seller obliges.

I think the second takeit is meaningless as it relates to rights to a book if the seller says first wins.

 

I like the Joe's bus stop analogy, it seems to fit the scenario where someone who claims a book specifically redirects the rights to purchase a book.

[joe_collector]

Suppose the OP has a rule in their sales thread that they won't sell to someone on the PL/HOS. Then, the first taker of a book in that thread is best buds with someone on the PL, and wants to give up the book to that PL'er. Can they do so, if they want to?

 

No

[joe_collector]

If the first taker wants to pass along the book to a bud, it's completely up to the seller whether or not to allow that, period.

 

Yes, but in this case, there was no problem from the seller and it was constant whining and complaining from the second BIN that got the original buyer to give up in disgust and tell him to just take it.

 

To me, the "second BIN" is worth about 2 dead flies and I can't believe we're devolving this level. 99% of the time, a second BIN is quickly deleted anyway.

 

Petty, petty, petty.

[EC ed]

I think the second takeit is meaningless as it relates to rights to a book if the seller says first wins.

 

Ahhhh, yes...now we arrive at the other issue...the rights of the second taker, especially in the context of the first taker passing on the book (for whatever reason...could be this scenario where they want to pass the book along, they simply don't pay for the book, whatever....any reason that the first taker has for not themselves purchasing the book). There seems to be this prevalent maintained assumption that a second taker has some rights in the matter, but again...not so sure. I'm starting to lean in the direction that the second take is technically meaningless, as well.

 

If the second taker has any rights, then I better immediately start going around all the sales threads and posting up on any book I'm interested in even if it's already been taken, just in case the first taker backs out. Seems like a more common sense approach is that if the first taker falls through (for whatever reason), the seller announces that the book is available for sale again, and the first taker AFTER than announcement gains 'first taker' status. Not sure if this is the exact right approach, but again...just discussing...

[HarveySwick]

But... who owns Blackacre in this scenario?!

[EC ed]

But... who owns Blackacre in this scenario?!

 

Law school, right? You could indeed substitute in some of the scenarios that crop up around here and do similar mental gymnastics....

Edited March 19, 2014 by edowens71

[KPR Comics]

But... who owns Blackacre in this scenario?!

Pierson, of course. It's well settled.

[EC ed]

But... who owns Blackacre in this scenario?!

Pierson, of course. It's well settled.

 

Not so fast...it's Edward, of course.

[paperheart]

what issue of x-men would you use as cutoff between bronze and copper to comply with FS forums? thanks

 

X-Men 143

 

thanks. to crassus as well.

[joe_collector]

If the second taker has any rights, then I better immediately start going around all the sales threads and posting up on any book I'm interested in even if it's already been taken, just in case the first taker backs out. Seems like a more common sense approach is that if the first taker falls through (for whatever reason), the seller announces that the book is available for sale again, and the first taker AFTER than announcement gains 'first taker' status. Not sure if this is the exact right approach, but again...just discussing...

 

And then we get into third, fourth, etc. on every book, just in case the second guy bows out, and suddenly every sales thread is 3,000 pages long.

 

All people need in order to function properly in society is common sense, and things tend to break down when those lacking in common sense try to exert their will on a sound process.

 

That's why we have so many freaking laws and perfectly-good products are removed from the market. Why someone tries to put a hairdryer up their nose is beyond me, but we must protect those poor souls.

[EC ed]

Yes, but in this case, there was no problem from the seller and it was constant whining and complaining from the second BIN that got the original buyer to give up in disgust and tell him to just take it.

 

To me, the "second BIN" is worth about 2 dead flies

I'm pretty sure you and I are in agreement here. Suppose the seller had instead applied the logic I discuss just above...the seller would have told the second taker something like "I'm sorry, but as the second taker, you're out of the picture at this point. The first taker has the chance to complete this transaction, and if he wants to pass the book along to someone else, that's between me, the first taker, and the potential 'third-party' recipient. If the book becomes available for sale again, I will re-post it in the thread as such, and then it's fair game again."

 

Would this have been "better"?

[joe_collector]

Maybe, but it never got to that point, because once the second stated that he should get first dibs on the "unwanted book" everyone just went and told him to "just take it".

 

I had a similar thing happen in a line at a restaurant - some psycho was having a fit behind me about how hungry he was and how he didn't have much time, and I just turned around and said "Jesus Christ buddy, just go ahead". The behavior is so nuts that you want him out there.

[HarveySwick]

All people need in order to function properly in society is common sense, and things tend to break down when those lacking in common sense try to exert their will on a sound process.

 

That's why we have so many freaking laws and perfectly-good products are removed from the market. Why someone tries to put a hairdryer up their nose is beyond me, but we must protect those poor souls.

CAUTION. COFFEE MAY BE HOT.

[awakeintheashes]

But... who owns Blackacre in this scenario?!

comicalgems