General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[ItsJustRyan]

Recommendations to the PL or HOS by anyone other than the wronged person is something that should not be allowed.

 

I agree with this.

[VintageComics]

I'm just not seeing anyone at fault here.

- I totally agree with GATOR's view of the On Hold being the equivalent of a conditional I'll Take It.

- I do think Quadman holds the rightful claim to the book.

- However, I totally understand the need of the seller to feel comfortable with the terms of the sale. While I would like to see him sell it to Quadman, I don't think it is probation worthy if he does not.

 

I have a hard time understanding how 'on hold' can mean anything else other than the book is on hold.

 

If something is on hold, it's unavailable, whether it's underwear on layaway or real estate. To me 'on hold' = temporarily unavailable.

 

The seller had no obligation to hold the book but he did and so those words are binding.

 

Or does someone disagree?

 

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

[N/A]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

 

Normal rules apply

USA Shipping only

No Paypal on these

We can discuss payment/shipping/pickup options

I have done a few large deals here 5k-20k if you would like boardies names lmk and ill ask them to vouch for me.

 

What is your definition of normal rules?

 

Buyer is not in the US.

 

Hold was placed to discuss payment/shipping/pickup options.

 

Doesn't seem that Quadman's qualified until the terms were discussed. They were discussed and the seller opted not to proceed.

[Spiderphill]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

correct

[N/A]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

correct

 

Nope

[HarveySwick]

Until a posted, agreed upon rules list is enacted along with a set guideline to conform to (including a standardized set of selling/buying rules that could be cut and pasted to the first post of every seller's sales thread)... there is nothing that can prevent situations like this from happening (even in relation to proper "sales etiquette").

Fully agree. (thumbs u A seller's integrity to honor transactions and use common sense SHOULD be enough, but it's obviously not the case with some so it seems clearly defined rules are needed.

 

Pending a set of sales rules being completed and enforced , the seller is, and should always be, in charge of his thread and the rules therein.

 

This is not directed at Randy at all, nor to Spiderphill or Harvey above, but there is a trend developing where it appears that buyers believe that they can dictate every aspect of a sale. It also appears that whenever that trend is challenged, immediately the aspect of PL and HOS is tossed onto the table... and more often than not, by someone other than the wronged party.

Yes and no. I agree that a seller runs his sales thread and makes the rules for his sales thread. BUT if a buyer follows those rules, he needs to honor the deal. That's pretty clearly stated - you list a book for sale, someone buys it, you SELL the book. Not "I decided I'm not going to sell it" after someone buys it. This JUST happened with oceanavekid and he rightfully ended up on the Probation List.

 

Recommendations to the PL or HOS by anyone other than the wronged person is something that should not be allowed. I say this because as of late, it has become more rampant and is detrimental to seller reputations. State your opinion, but we should leave the recommendations of nomination to those who have been damaged.

I think the call for HOS has become something out of hand lately where every single transgression leads to "Let's add him to the HOS! " But I don't think there is anything wrong with a buyer ASKING for opinions and people offering those opinions as is the case here. Randy started a thread to ask other's opinions on the matter. That's how most of these discussions arise - someone looking for advice.

[darkstar]

The seller should have just put that he retains the right to refuse any buyer in his terms

 

I very rarely sell on the forums but isn't the right to refuse a sale to an interested buyer an understood stipulation across all sales threads here?

[HarveySwick]

Normal rules apply

USA Shipping only

No Paypal on these

We can discuss payment/shipping/pickup options

I have done a few large deals here 5k-20k if you would like boardies names lmk and ill ask them to vouch for me.

 

What is your definition of normal rules? This is the problem. Seller is selling two $10,000 books and can't be bothered to spell out clear rules.

 

Buyer is not in the US. - doesn't state anywhere that the Buyer has to live in the US. Only says shipping in US. Buyer HAS a US shipping address. I know it seems like semantics, but what if Buyer was buying the book as a gift for his nephew in the US and wanted it shipped there. "Sorry?"

 

Hold was placed to discuss payment/shipping/pickup options.

 

Doesn't seem that Quadman's qualified until the terms were discussed. They were discussed and the seller opted not to proceed. - Buyer followed the Seller's exact "rules" to the T. So you're essentially saying Seller's can opt out of any transaction when they feel like it even if the Buyer complies with all of the Seller's "rules".

[jaybuck43]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

 

Normal rules apply

USA Shipping only

No Paypal on these

We can discuss payment/shipping/pickup options

I have done a few large deals here 5k-20k if you would like boardies names lmk and ill ask them to vouch for me.

 

What is your definition of normal rules?

 

Buyer is not in the US.

 

Hold was placed to discuss payment/shipping/pickup options.

 

Doesn't seem that Quadman's qualified until the terms were discussed. They were discussed and the seller opted not to proceed.

 

Branget. Quadman's should never have needed to qualify, because there were no conditions placed on it. The only reason we are even having this discussion right now is because Quadman's location says "Canada". Had it said"Phil's Parking Lot (btw someone needs to PM me the background on that)" or "Krypton" or any random place the deal would have been done and a PM would have been sent by seller saying "Where am I shipping to and when am I getting payment in the form of Personal Check/MO/Cashiers check/ Rolls of Pennies whatever the seller asked for. " The response would have been "Personal check ok? if not I will get a certified one and here is my address" at which point he (quadman) would have provided a US based address. Done and done.

[oldbsturgeon]

sales will now have the "requires immediate payment" clause like those that can be added on buy it now ebay sales.

I once heard George Carlin say he did all his grocery shopping out of other people's carts. It's not theirs until the money has been given. Then everyone can start refunding people paypal claims or returning checks becasue the other person paid faster.

[N/A]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

 

Normal rules apply

USA Shipping only

No Paypal on these

We can discuss payment/shipping/pickup options

I have done a few large deals here 5k-20k if you would like boardies names lmk and ill ask them to vouch for me.

 

What is your definition of normal rules?

 

Buyer is not in the US.

 

Hold was placed to discuss payment/shipping/pickup options.

 

Doesn't seem that Quadman's qualified until the terms were discussed. They were discussed and the seller opted not to proceed.

 

Branget. Quadman's should never have needed to qualify, because there were no conditions placed on it. The only reason we are even having this discussion right now is because Quadman's location says "Canada". Had it said"Phil's Parking Lot (btw someone needs to PM me the background on that)" or "Krypton" or any random place the deal would have been done and a PM would have been sent by seller saying "Where am I shipping to and when am I getting payment in the form of Personal Check/MO/Cashiers check/ Rolls of Pennies whatever the seller asked for. " The response would have been "Personal check ok? if not I will get a certified one and here is my address" at which point he (quadman) would have provided a US based address. Done and done.

 

Where's the PM?

[N/A]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

 

Normal rules apply

USA Shipping only

No Paypal on these

We can discuss payment/shipping/pickup options

I have done a few large deals here 5k-20k if you would like boardies names lmk and ill ask them to vouch for me.

 

What is your definition of normal rules?

 

Buyer is not in the US.

 

Hold was placed to discuss payment/shipping/pickup options.

 

Doesn't seem that Quadman's qualified until the terms were discussed. They were discussed and the seller opted not to proceed.

 

Branget. Quadman's should never have needed to qualify, because there were no conditions placed on it. The only reason we are even having this discussion right now is because Quadman's location says "Canada". Had it said"Phil's Parking Lot (btw someone needs to PM me the background on that)" or "Krypton" or any random place the deal would have been done and a PM would have been sent by seller saying "Where am I shipping to and when am I getting payment in the form of Personal Check/MO/Cashiers check/ Rolls of Pennies whatever the seller asked for. " The response would have been "Personal check ok? if not I will get a certified one and here is my address" at which point he (quadman) would have provided a US based address. Done and done.

 

That can be the only reason you're having a discussion.

 

"normal rules" leaves the seller an out

"us shipping" leaves another out

 

Any buyer can easily put to hold a book while they iron out details. This puts the emphasis on the buyer to comply to the rules of the sale as outlined by the seller.

[VintageComics]

I disagree that the book was on hold roy, because it should never have been. The first PM between Randy and the seller was Action 23 Thats it. Done. The book should have been marked either as sold or sold via PM, whichever the Seller preferred. The buyer never entered into any conditions or asked to dicker over terms. He accepted the offer (10k paid in non-paypal form for an action 23 shipped to anywhere in the US). The seller set the terms and the buyer agreed to them. Book was sold at that point.

correct

 

The difference here is that the seller said that the book was place on hold (click the link) by the seller. Nobody forced his hand. It was done of their own volition.

 

Selling/buying negotiations are always fluid until either one side or the other puts a 'stop' to negotiations. A stop can mean an "i'll take it", an agreement in terms, a hold or taking the book off the market. The way I see it, if a seller states something is 'on hold' then that is literally what it means. The book (and negotiations) are held.

 

To me there is no grey area there.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

Ok, I think I've got it...

 

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Participants

#5171545 - Today at 06:46 PM Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

 

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#5171572 - Today at 07:00 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

Ill put a hold on it until we can agree on shipping/payment terms

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#5171576 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

Ok perfect.

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#5171577 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

K are you in Canada? Whats the best way to do this?

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#5171595 - Today at 07:09 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I can only ship US. Do you have a USA address?

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#5171615 - Today at 07:22 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I do have a US address. I was thinking with such a large purchase maybe we can use reputable board member as a middle man? Maybe Filter or GAtor?

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#5171619 - Today at 07:23 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

With all due respect I would like to sell to a more established member that has less risk on my part. Thanks for your interest anyway

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#5171624 - Today at 07:24 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I'll send a cheque straight up then

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#5171630 - Today at 07:25 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I have made major purchases on here with many boardies. Check my kudos.

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#5171653 - Today at 07:34 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

Its been sold with no conditions sorry

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#5171669 - Today at 07:40 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

That's bad business sir. I'll be filing a complaint.

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#5171687 - Today at 07:45 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I did not accept your Ill take it through PM. You had a conditional ill take it (Out of country, 3rd party) and I had a buyer who had no conditions. I elected to sell to the person with no conditions

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#5171701 - 52 minutes 20 seconds ago Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

My did not have any conditions on it. You said you would put it on hold until we worked out payment plans which we were in the middle of doing.

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#5171715 - 48 minutes 41 seconds ago Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I said HOLD not you got it or anything like that. My post said USA only and you are Canada. You have a US address ok but you wanted 3rd party and have a year on the boards and live in a different country. That's too many variables for a 5 figure book. You did not post in the thread and even if you did you still had conditions. I am not taking a shot that everything will go right with a 10k book.

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Quick Reply:

 

Seller didn't have a problem with US only shipping. Only the Registered date of the Buyer. He should have listed that "will not sell to a Buyer with a Registered date before xx/xx/xx" in his rules because that's not a "Normal Rules Apply" sort of thing. Strange thing he keeps referencing - his "risk"? What would his "risk" be if he received a check or money order before selling the book?

 

K are you in Canada? Whats the best way to do this? I can only ship US. Do you have a USA address?

What was Randy's answer to this question?

[VintageComics]

The seller should have just put that he retains the right to refuse any buyer in his terms

 

I very rarely sell on the forums but isn't the right to refuse a sale to an interested buyer an understood stipulation across all sales threads here?

 

The problem is that 'normal rules apply' is up to interpretation.

 

What is normal to one person may not be normal to another person.

 

I'm going to actually use a template to cover my selling rules from now on so that there is no grey area. It saves heartache for both sides and keeps the machine running smoothly.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

I've cleaned up the PM's for claritys sake, because it seems that people aren't reading them in their current form:

 

Ok, I think I've got it...

 

Page 1 of 1 1

Participants

#5171545 - Today at 06:46 PM Action #23

 

#5171572 - Today at 07:00 PM Re: Action #23

Ill put a hold on it until we can agree on shipping/payment terms

 

#5171576 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

Ok perfect.

 

#5171577 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

K are you in Canada? Whats the best way to do this?

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#5171595 - Today at 07:09 PM Re: Action #23

 

I can only ship US. Do you have a USA address?

 

#5171615 - Today at 07:22 PM Re: Action #23

 

I do have a US address. I was thinking with such a large purchase maybe we can use reputable board member as a middle man? Maybe Filter or GAtor?

 

#5171619 - Today at 07:23 PM Re: Action #23

 

With all due respect I would like to sell to a more established member that has less risk on my part. Thanks for your interest anyway

 

#5171624 - Today at 07:24 PM Re: Action #23

I'll send a check (edited to add: I changed the spelling, the British/Canadian spelling bothers me) straight up then

 

#5171630 - Today at 07:25 PM Re: Action #23

I have made major purchases on here with many boardies. Check my kudos.

 

#5171653 - Today at 07:34 PM Re: Action #23

Its been sold with no conditions sorry

 

#5171669 - Today at 07:40 PM Re: Action #23

 

That's bad business sir. I'll be filing a complaint.

 

#5171687 - Today at 07:45 PM Re: Action #23

 

I did not accept your Ill take it through PM. You had a conditional ill take it (Out of country, 3rd party) and I had a buyer who had no conditions. I elected to sell to the person with no conditions

 

#5171701 - 52 minutes 20 seconds ago Re: Action #23

 

My did not have any conditions on it. You said you would put it on hold until we worked out payment plans which we were in the middle of doing.

 

#5171715 - 48 minutes 41 seconds ago Re: Action #23

 

I said HOLD not you got it or anything like that. My post said USA only and you are Canada. You have a US address ok but you wanted 3rd party and have a year on the boards and live in a different country. That's too many variables for a 5 figure book. You did not post in the thread and even if you did you still had conditions. I am not taking a shot that everything will go right with a 10k book.

 

 

 

 

[HarveySwick]

I tried to do the same thing above with colors.

[N/A]

Thanks for the PM. Seems clear to me seller was discussing terms, didn't like the terms and moved on. He has every right to do so.

 

 

 

Ok, I think I've got it...

 

Page 1 of 1 1

Participants

#5171545 - Today at 06:46 PM Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

 

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#5171572 - Today at 07:00 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

Ill put a hold on it until we can agree on shipping/payment terms

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#5171576 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

Ok perfect.

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#5171577 - Today at 07:01 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

K are you in Canada? Whats the best way to do this?

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#5171595 - Today at 07:09 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I can only ship US. Do you have a USA address?

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#5171615 - Today at 07:22 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I do have a US address. I was thinking with such a large purchase maybe we can use reputable board member as a middle man? Maybe Filter or GAtor?

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#5171619 - Today at 07:23 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

With all due respect I would like to sell to a more established member that has less risk on my part. Thanks for your interest anyway

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#5171624 - Today at 07:24 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I'll send a cheque straight up then

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#5171630 - Today at 07:25 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

I have made major purchases on here with many boardies. Check my kudos.

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#5171653 - Today at 07:34 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

Its been sold with no conditions sorry

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#5171669 - Today at 07:40 PM Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

That's bad business sir. I'll be filing a complaint.

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#5171687 - Today at 07:45 PM Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I did not accept your Ill take it through PM. You had a conditional ill take it (Out of country, 3rd party) and I had a buyer who had no conditions. I elected to sell to the person with no conditions

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#5171701 - 52 minutes 20 seconds ago Re: Action #23

quadman78

Talkative?

 

 

Registered: 01/16/13

Posts: 856

Loc: Ontario Canada

My did not have any conditions on it. You said you would put it on hold until we worked out payment plans which we were in the middle of doing.

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#5171715 - 48 minutes 41 seconds ago Re: Action #23

trory140

I am gonna miss that car.

 

 

Registered: 12/16/11

Posts: 243

I said HOLD not you got it or anything like that. My post said USA only and you are Canada. You have a US address ok but you wanted 3rd party and have a year on the boards and live in a different country. That's too many variables for a 5 figure book. You did not post in the thread and even if you did you still had conditions. I am not taking a shot that everything will go right with a 10k book.

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Page 1 of 1 1

Quick Reply:

 

Seller didn't have a problem with US only shipping. Only the Registered date of the Buyer. He should have listed that "will not sell to a Buyer with a Registered date before xx/xx/xx" in his rules because that's not a "Normal Rules Apply" sort of thing. Strange thing he keeps referencing - his "risk"? What would his "risk" be if he received a check or money order before selling the book?

 

K are you in Canada? Whats the best way to do this? I can only ship US. Do you have a USA address?

What was Randy's answer to this question?

[N/A]

I tried to do the same thing above with colors.

 

And it worked well. We just seem to see it differently. Quadman posted but he shouldn't have. He did need to work out details and didn't. Using a 3rd party is not "normal" by anybody's definition. Regardless of the likelihood of success it is still messier than a direct sale.