General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[CAHokie]

I thought it only counted if it is was with another actual person?

 

So it doesn't count if there is more than one other person?

 

Of course it does, you just get to double, triple (or more) your recap!

[Prince Namor]

For those of you who think it's ok to use Paypal Personal for business transactions, I've got three letters to assure you that you are wrong: IRS.

 

If you get audited, how do you think that looks?

 

Like you'll use any means to cheat from paying what you owe....

 

They WILL NOT give you the benefit of the doubt on something like that.

 

If you're going to be a legitimate seller, you may as well run it like a legitimate business and keep your PAPER TRAIL CLEAN.

[wombat]

Is this discussion still happening? I see that it had gone to memes.

 

As long as it doesn't go to mimes

 

 

[Buzzetta]

Where is that long cat thing? Now that thing was funny...

 

Oh . Now you gone done it.

 

I've been at the beach since 7:30 this morning and just got home and cleaned myself up. Empty the car or find this cat that is long that you speak of....

 

It will be midnight soon

 

What to do...

 

[thirdgreenham]

For those of you who think it's ok to use Paypal Personal for business transactions, I've got three letters to assure you that you are wrong: IRS.

 

If you get audited, how do you think that looks?

 

Like you'll use any means to cheat from paying what you owe....

 

They WILL NOT give you the benefit of the doubt on something like that.

 

If you're going to be a legitimate seller, you may as well run it like a legitimate business and keep your PAPER TRAIL CLEAN.

 

(thumbs u

[jaybuck43]

Which one do you want?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Red84]

Is this discussion still happening? I see that it had gone to memes.

As long as it doesn't go to mimes

via GIPHY

[RockMyAmadeus]

This was actually a pretty useful conversation. Lots of things brought out into the open and at least acknowledged, if not necessarily resolved.

 

Plus, maybe a payment service that solves the problem of fees.

 

If Venmo turns out to be the real deal, then thank you, Jaybuck, for mentioning it.

[Boboset]

There's still some posting in the Copper Age forum that believe previews are first appearances. You still have a lot of work ahead of you, RMA.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There's still some posting in the Copper Age forum that believe previews are first appearances. You still have a lot of work ahead of you, RMA.

 

No, really, you can handle it. I have faith in you. Those windmills won't tilt at themselves, you know.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There's still some posting in the Copper Age forum that believe previews are first appearances. You still have a lot of work ahead of you, RMA.

 

Also...even I won't argue with lost causes.

[Boboset]

There's still some posting in the Copper Age forum that believe previews are first appearances. You still have a lot of work ahead of you, RMA.

 

Also...even I won't argue with lost causes.

I wanted to see you try.

[Hado]

[Jeffro.]

You ever watch a gif and say "Wait, show me what happened next...!"

 

...?

 

Yes, but I can't post them. Too prurient

[Jeffro.]

Is this discussion still happening? I see that it had gone to memes.

 

 

[EC ed]

This was actually a pretty useful conversation. Lots of things brought out into the open and at least acknowledged, if not necessarily resolved.

 

Plus, maybe a payment service that solves the problem of fees.

 

If Venmo turns out to be the real deal, then thank you, Jaybuck, for mentioning it.

 

I agree. Also, I am optimistic about Venmo.

 

However, having said that....look what I found while browsing around Venmo this morning. Recall that Venmo is owned by PayPal. This snippet I'm about to post further illustrates that PayPal/Venmo seems incapable of being clear in their intent/policies...

 

LINK

 

Can I use Venmo to pay someone for goods or services?

No. Venmo is designed for payments between friends and people who know and trust one another.

 

Just take a look at that mess. "No," period. Then, the second sentence follows....it's as if "they" cannot comprehend the situation where I might buy a physical object from a non-business/non-merchant personal friend OR individual that I know and trust. Literally taken, that two-sentence combination there precludes that possibility. My conclusion is that they must be defining "goods or services" to mean objects or services purchased from businesses/merchants, and not from individual "people" (I underlined their term "people" for emphasis). Right? (of course, this interpretation is challenged somewhat by their use of the term "someone" in the question...again, what a mess)

 

If so, that might bear some relevance to yesterday's discussion, given that PayPal owns the company that joined those two sentences together.

 

Edited August 19, 2015 by edowens71

[crassus]

LINK

 

Can I use Venmo to pay someone for goods or services?

No. Venmo is designed for payments between friends and people who know and trust one another.

 

Just take a look at that mess. "No," period. Then, the second sentence follows....it's as if "they" cannot comprehend the situation where I might buy a physical object from a non-business/non-merchant personal friend OR individual that I know and trust. Literally taken, that two-sentence combination there precludes that possibility. My conclusion is that they must be defining "goods or services" to mean objects or services purchased from businesses/merchants. Right?

 

If so, that might bear some relevance to yesterday's discussion, given that PayPal owns the company that joined those two sentences together.

 

 

I agree completely. IMO this is the relevant distinction, and while not perfect, it is broadly conform to the reality of private versus public transactions. It does not solve all the issues though.

 

If you act and transact like a business, meaning systematically and with regularity, you are a merchant, if you act and transact only occasionally, fitfully, circumstantially, like a private individual would, you are not a merchant. Each transaction on its own proves nothing, and thus Paypal/Venmo is only being truthful in having an ambiguous definition, as a pattern of behaviour is the only measure possible.

 

I agree that it is possible to argue that "personal" paypal can comprehend purchases of good and services from private individuals but that would only be on the assumption that there was no pattern of behaviour suggesting that it is in fact evidence of an ongoing business.

 

RMAs argument has been consistent that the issue is not a single transaction, but a pattern of behaviour. So if you are essentially running a business you cannot say "hey, but each individual transaction was to somebody I know personally as a friend" because if it is regular and constant you are acting like a merchant, whether they are really your friends or not.

 

So if you are buying and selling regularly here on the Boards you are acting like a merchant and all transactions are public and not "personal" paypal. If your purchases or sales are genuinely fitful, occasional, circumstantial (charity, hard times, sudden car repairs etc) than I believe Paypal has allowed for this reality in their policy. They will, up to a point, give you the benefit of the doubt, unless or until a pattern of behaviour shows otherwise.

 

I'm sorry this discussion became so dramatic as there are interesting parallels between how governments handle these issues in private tax declarations/audits and how Paypal approaches regular versus personal payments.

 

If occasionally Joe sells his best friend John a stack of used trades because they are fanboy readers, it is highly unlikely the government will care enough to pursue Joe for the 5% GST normally collected on all retail sales. If however over time Joe's finances show larger and larger purchases of inventory that are then resold for larger and larger incomes, they will sooner or later pursue him if it is undeclared. Above a certain amount, I think its 35k?, he would also have to pay the government the GST he would be expected to have collected.

 

Its all thresholds of patterns of behaviour, and another reason it is hard to make damning judgments of singular acts, at least in this context.

 

 

 

 

 

[EC ed]

So if you are buying and selling regularly here on the Boards you are acting like a merchant and all transactions are public and not "personal" paypal.

 

Of course, this leads to its own free-standing discussion...that is, when does an individual become a merchant/business....?

 

I would argue that buying and selling regularly here on the Boards is not sufficient to meet that definition. Again, it depends on circumstances and intent.

 

Take me, for example. I buy and sell a lot from and to people on these boards. When I buy and sell, I am rearranging my collection, period. I am selling books I no longer want to collect, and buying books that I want to collect. In most cases, when I sell a book, I'm ecstatic if I can just break even - I guarantee you that in the majority of my sales, I lose money....and I do it a lot of times. I'm OK with that...I enjoy the books for awhile, and I view the "losses" as just part of the cost of evolving my collection. Is that consistent with me behaving like a business/merchant? I would argue not.

[jaybuck43]

There is a ton of contradiction in PayPal's own rules. In one breath it says you can't pay for goods or services using personal. In the next it says personal is for things like paying your friend for lunch. Well that is payment for both goods and services. You're paying your friend back for the service of money lending (s/he extended you a line of credit in the amount of your lunch with the expectation that it be paid back in a timely matter.) Arguably its also possible you are paying for goods. It is literally a sub contract (in that it is a contract for a sub) You are buying a sub from your friend who bought it from the retail location.

[N/A]

 

That's a big stretch.