Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 11 hours ago, Paddy_McShillihan said: the inner well did seem tight in there ... yea I did same thing .. put please fix waves on reholder sub form Attn : customer service - it came back looking a bit better but I could still find the waves slightly when I looked took about 2 weeks Keep your receipt from shipping - you'll get that back too Thanks Paddy I'll certainly give it a shot. Also, the following pics show, I believe, what CGC's method was, and perhaps still is, when a particular book doesn't fit properly into a well (maybe the books are between well sizes so they use this "spacer"). They are used both on the spine side and at the bottom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 38 minutes ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Sure looks a lot like mine although my waves are narrower. I can't imagine anything else causing this besides the books being squeezed into wells that aren't large enough. That's the previous generation holder - looks like there's plenty of space around the book ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 6, 2017 Author Share Posted April 6, 2017 58 minutes ago, mschmidt said: That's the previous generation holder - looks like there's plenty of space around the book ... It's kind of hard to tell, although if there are vertical waves it would follow that they are probably caused by the book being squeezed on the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted April 6, 2017 Share Posted April 6, 2017 9 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: It's kind of hard to tell, although if there are vertical waves it would follow that they are probably caused by the book being squeezed on the sides. The book could also suffer from a bad press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 7, 2017 Author Share Posted April 7, 2017 14 hours ago, mschmidt said: The book could also suffer from a bad press. That's what I said about my reputation... lizards2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: 15 hours ago, mschmidt said: The book could also suffer from a bad press. That's what I said about my reputation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 22 hours ago, lizards2 said: It's part of the reason why Kent figured he had to cut me in half... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FN-2199 Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 The book looks OK but the inner well has me concerned. I also have another slab like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted April 9, 2017 Share Posted April 9, 2017 On 4/6/2017 at 9:20 AM, mschmidt said: The book could also suffer from a bad press. I really think that is what's going on here. Why does CGC and/or their holder always get the blame ? If you look in to a mirror and don't like what you see, do you blame the mirror ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: I really think that is what's going on here. Why does CGC and/or their holder always get the blame ? If you look in to a mirror and don't like what you see, do you blame the mirror ? Because it's extremely unlikely that someone would get a book pressed, get it back in an unpressed-looking condition and then send it in for certification. Keep in mind, this book (mine, I mean) was certified only last November. That would mean that someone either A. had the book pressed, the pressing was lousy and didn't fix the problem, and then they sent it in to CGC for certification AND CGC didn't mention anything about it in the Grader's notes, or B. they had the book pressed, sent it in for certification and in the short interim time somehow the waviness "came back" which is something I've never heard of after a pressing. No, the only reasonable conclusion for my book's waviness is something to do with the encapsulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 10, 2017 Author Share Posted April 10, 2017 10 hours ago, FN-2199 said: The book looks OK but the inner well has me concerned. I also have another slab like this. Have those re-slabbed ASAP. CGC brought back the well for a good reason. "A small number of holders, however, were found to display a slight wavy appearance. In no instances did this slightly wavy appearance cause or reflect any damage to a book. Nonetheless, some collectors and dealers were understandably concerned." However, there have been many examples where the books within this particular type of holder (used April-June 2016) did develop waviness, so why take a chance? FN-2199 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Because it's extremely unlikely that someone would get a book pressed, get it back in an unpressed-looking condition and then send it in for certification. Keep in mind, this book (mine, I mean) was certified only last November. That would mean that someone either A. had the book pressed, the pressing was lousy and didn't fix the problem, and then they sent it in to CGC for certification AND CGC didn't mention anything about it in the Grader's notes, or B. they had the book pressed, sent it in for certification and in the short interim time somehow the waviness "came back" which is something I've never heard of after a pressing. No, the only reasonable conclusion for my book's waviness is something to do with the encapsulation. Why would you get the book back after it was pressed, but before it was submitted to CGC? Pretty much all pressing services out there press the books & them submit them directly - the customer doesn't get their book back until it's in a slab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 12 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: They had the book pressed, sent it in for certification and in the short interim time somehow the waviness "came back" which is something I've never heard of after a pressing. No, the only reasonable conclusion for my book's waviness is something to do with the encapsulation. I've had pressed books deteriorate in the slab. Paper has a memory and pressed creases and such can 'come back'. I think too much humidity was applied to your book by the presser and after the initial effects of the press wore off the waviness occurred. That is a much more logical conclusion then the encapsulation caused it. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when stuff like this happens. You want to blame somebody and it's easier to blame CGC than the presser. Also, remember, there is a lot of humidity down there in Sarasota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 12 hours ago, mschmidt said: Why would you get the book back after it was pressed, but before it was submitted to CGC? Pretty much all pressing services out there press the books & them submit them directly - the customer doesn't get their book back until it's in a slab. Because some pressing services do not offer direct submissions to CGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 11, 2017 Author Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: I've had pressed books deteriorate in the slab. Paper has a memory and pressed creases and such can 'come back'. I think too much humidity was applied to your book by the presser and after the initial effects of the press wore off the waviness occurred. That is a much more logical conclusion then the encapsulation caused it. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when stuff like this happens. You want to blame somebody and it's easier to blame CGC than the presser. Also, remember, there is a lot of humidity down there in Sarasota. Because you say it is a more logical conclusion does not make it so. I haven't seen much evidence, if any, that "pressed out waviness" comes back. There is a lot of evidence of books in slabs developing waviness in the slab. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when someone has a strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service for some reason apart from evidence. No need to accuse me of some subjective desire to place blame somewhere. I'm merely trying to get a handle on what happened in an effort to correct it. Edited April 11, 2017 by Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 11 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Because some pressing services do not offer direct submissions to CGC. The vast majority do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Because you say it is a more logical conclusion does not make it so. I haven't seen much evidence, if any, that "pressed out waviness" comes back. There is a lot of evidence of books in slabs developing waviness in the slab. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when someone has a strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service for some reason apart from evidence. No need to accuse me of some subjective desire to place blame somewhere. I'm merely trying to get a handle on what happened in an effort to correct it. You're still confusing the various incarnations of the slab. There's no evidence there's a widespread problem with books developing waves inside the most recent CGC case (the one with an inner well). Edited April 11, 2017 by mschmidt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomber-Bob Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 15 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Because you say it is a more logical conclusion does not make it so. I haven't seen much evidence, if any, that "pressed out waviness" comes back. There is a lot of evidence of books in slabs developing waviness in the slab. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when someone has a strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service for some reason apart from evidence. No need to accuse me of some subjective desire to place blame somewhere. I'm merely trying to get a handle on what happened in an effort to correct it. If the book was encapsulated with an inner well, there is no evidence I ever saw where the encapsulation process caused waviness. The first incarnation of the new slab did not have an inner well and used pressure to hold the book in place. The pressure caused the waviness. I have no strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service, why would I care ? I'm not accusing you of anything but possibly reaching the wrong conclusion on what happened. If, as you say, you are simply trying to get a handle on what happened, why are you being so defensive ? You came here asking. Others, including myself, said you may be wrong. You were seeking validation of your hypothesis, you did not get it. Sorry. 15 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Because you say it is a more logical conclusion does not make it so. I haven't seen much evidence, if any, that "pressed out waviness" comes back. There is a lot of evidence of books in slabs developing waviness in the slab. Sorry, I know how irritating it is when someone has a strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service for some reason apart from evidence. No need to accuse me of some subjective desire to place blame somewhere. I'm merely trying to get a handle on what happened in an effort to correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said: If the book was encapsulated with an inner well, there is no evidence I ever saw where the encapsulation process caused waviness. The first incarnation of the new slab did not have an inner well and used pressure to hold the book in place. The pressure caused the waviness. I have no strong desire to absolve the encapsulation service, why would I care ? I'm not accusing you of anything but possibly reaching the wrong conclusion on what happened. If, as you say, you are simply trying to get a handle on what happened, why are you being so defensive ? You came here asking. Others, including myself, said you may be wrong. You were seeking validation of your hypothesis, you did not get it. Sorry. You have taken a somewhat confrontational tone in this discussion, evinced by this claim that I was seeking validation rather than input from others who may have had similar experiences. I am not being defensive, but if anyone has a viewpoint different than yours, evidently that is your conclusion. The fact that you or I have seen, or have not seen, any particular anomaly does not in itself constitute evidence or disproval. You seem to have concluded that a comic book not encapsulated in CGC's "no-well" design cannot have developed waviness associated with the slab. I maintain that, until we have evidence that something else caused said waviness, the POSSIBILITY still does exist that the waviness was caused by (and please try to visualize what I'm referring to) a too-narrow well, in other words, a well that, over a certain period of time more or less "scrunched" the book on the sides resulting in the waviness. If a book is placed in a well that does not allow absolutely ANY space, simple atmospheric conditions, if nothing else, might cause the paper to expand just a tad and lead to waviness. If the (comparatively) widest part of the book is the front or back cover, that is where the pressure from the sides would result in the anomaly. I'm just acknowledging the possibility. Sorry. Edited April 12, 2017 by Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 13 hours ago, mschmidt said: The vast majority do. The vast majority also split hairs. Have you noticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
