drotto Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Explain to me why this design would cause any waves though? With the pressure case it seemed like we had a good explanation. With the current case I know that outer case is much stiffer, and sealed more tightly, but the basic shell and inner well setup is not different then generation two cases. On the surface there is no reason it should be causing waves. I have at least 25 books in the new case with no issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, drotto said: Explain to me why this design would cause any waves though? With the pressure case it seemed like we had a good explanation. With the current case I know that outer case is much stiffer, and sealed more tightly, but the basic shell and inner well setup is not different then generation two cases. On the surface there is no reason it should be causing waves. I have at least 25 books in the new case with no issues. Just spitballin', but it may be that the outer well is positioned too closely to the inner well, just like the old/new case, where the outer well was positioned right on top of those inner sheets. What I recall about the prism effect is that it is the two sheets of plastic meeting, which in the old cases, you could stick a piece a paper in the edges and separate the plastic and temporarily get rid of it. IIRC the new/new cases are pretty concave on the outer well...., and sealed on the edges for an even tighter bond. So maybe the cause is the another side effect of the the sealed edges and concave design. Edited March 27, 2017 by lizards2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony S Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Or it COULD BE that the book had waves when sent to sent to CGC. That the slab HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..... here are the grading notes.... Grader Notes:multiple bend spine breaks color small, multiple tear left bottom of front cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 6 hours ago, Tony S said: Or it COULD BE that the book had waves when sent to sent to CGC. That the slab HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..... here are the grading notes.... Grader Notes:multiple bend spine breaks color small, multiple tear left bottom of front cover I have had this though also. A certain percentage of books are wavy. In some it may be a defect, and in some moderns they just come that way, lay new books down on a table and check it out sometime. To see this someone would have to look at the number of raw books with waves vs. number in slabs with waves (all companies slabs), and see if the number is similar. I would bet the waves in cases is lower due to pressing, but not all books are pressed, but overall not that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VintageComics Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 On 2017-03-26 at 11:00 PM, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: On 2017-03-26 at 4:56 AM, Mio said: Sealing the edges was a bad idea. Any keeper books of mine come out of the new holder, as hard as it is to do. Newton rings continue to be an unsightly problem. They sure are; at this point I think CGC should just throw in the towel and go back to the old design. They could simply expand the size of the well to what it was two designs ago and use materials in the sleeve and slab that don't interact and cause visible effects. The latest slab that you have does not cause waviness to my knowledge. I've had several hundred books slabbed since the latest change. There is no pressure exerted on the book so no forces that would cause a wave. From what my experience tells me, it's more likely that your book has a wave in it pre slabbing and that is what you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy_McShillihan Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) These weren't here when slabbed ... Edited March 29, 2017 by Paddy_McShillihan Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 8 hours ago, Paddy_McShillihan said: These weren't here when slabbed ... Which inner well was used? The molded one with the visible side walls or the edge sealed one which is just two pieces seal together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy_McShillihan Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 8 hours ago, drotto said: Which inner well was used? The molded one with the visible side walls or the edge sealed one which is just two pieces seal together. molded one with the visible side walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy_McShillihan Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 This book was sent back and waves fixed but they're still slightly visible ... think it was pooched while pressing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Paddy_McShillihan said: This book was sent back and waves fixed but they're still slightly visible ... think it was pooched while pressing It looks like someone cracked the top edge and took a leak into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) On 3/28/2017 at 1:40 AM, Tony S said: Or it COULD BE that the book had waves when sent to sent to CGC. That the slab HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..... here are the grading notes.... Grader Notes:multiple bend spine breaks color small, multiple tear left bottom of front cover So, if anything the grader's notes would tend to discount your hypothesis, as they make no mention of the waviness. But I do appreciate your forking over the 5 bucks, that was pretty cool of you. Maybe you could have said, "Hey Dr. Fate, you cheapy , why don't you spend the 5 bucks and check the grader's notes?" ;o) Edited March 30, 2017 by Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 8:32 AM, drotto said: Explain to me why this design would cause any waves though? With the pressure case it seemed like we had a good explanation. With the current case I know that outer case is much stiffer, and sealed more tightly, but the basic shell and inner well setup is not different then generation two cases. On the surface there is no reason it should be causing waves. I have at least 25 books in the new case with no issues. Because if the book is sealed too tightly in the Mylar because it has to be squeezed into a smaller well (and the wells are smaller in these newest cases, I measured it, 6 13/16th in. width by 10 1/4 height in the new case versus 6 15/16th in. width by 10 5/16th height in the previous case, pic included for example), there would be added pressure on the book. I know the difference is slight, but it is certainly enough to as least be a possible cause. Tony S 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/28/2017 at 10:24 PM, Paddy_McShillihan said: These weren't here when slabbed ... Exactly, this is the same anomaly mine is exhibiting, although nowhere near as severe as yours. There are lots of other examples if one takes some time and does some research, and the most incriminating indication that there's something going on is that, AFAIK, this problem has ONLY been associated with this particular type of slab. It is called the "creep engine" and is explained here...https://comicsheatingup.net/2016/06/17/cgc-new-case-debate-explained/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizards2 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 It is hard to believe you folks keep submitting your comics for damage, and pay for it. Oh well, keep up the good work. Skull Squadron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sChild Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 8:10 AM, entalmighty1 said: I'd just go ahead and call CGC and tell them you're sending it back. Why risk doing permanent damage to the book when they'll reslab it for free? Do they reslab any book from that period of time or do you need to show it is developing issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mijael.Levy Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 (edited) ..... Edited March 30, 2017 by Mijael.Levy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mschmidt Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 8 hours ago, Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet said: Exactly, this is the same anomaly mine is exhibiting, although nowhere near as severe as yours. There are lots of other examples if one takes some time and does some research, and the most incriminating indication that there's something going on is that, AFAIK, this problem has ONLY been associated with this particular type of slab. It is called the "creep engine" and is explained here...https://comicsheatingup.net/2016/06/17/cgc-new-case-debate-explained/ The "creep engine" only applies to the 1st generation of CGC's newest slabs - the ones that did not have an inner well, but rather had the books floating in-between 2 mylar sheets. Those are the books that CGC have been re-holdering for free over the last year or so. In the current version of CGC's slab (the one with an inner well), there's no more pressure on the book than there was in the previous generation holder - there's no creep engine at work in those slabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Surfer Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 7:29 AM, 1Cool said: I'm surprised we have not heard of anyone hurting themselves yet. The way the slab snaps apart and shatters you could easier get cut on the sharp edges. Who is going to admit that around here and unleash a firestorm upon themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drotto Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, Silver Surfer said: Who is going to admit that around here and unleash a firestorm upon themselves? If it happens I want to see picturesucide and stitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Man Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/24/2017 at 5:59 PM, Paddy_McShillihan said: Yup sent a book back to CGC had waves .... when it came back it still had slight waves to it ... I think they pooched it while pressing it What??? They press your book to fix their crappy holder problems? What if you don't want your book pressed? Especially if it wasn't a problem when you sent it in. This is not acceptable to me. Dr.Fate'sFullHelmet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
