Collections drying up? 4 4

[Aweandlorder]

On 6/13/2017 at 4:25 PM, 1Cool said:

If the goal is to promote a feeding frenzy then it may be better to price them at $2 a piece and then have a 1/2 price sign.  People love 1/2 half even if the original price is 2x the price you want.

But I think it just does not matter what price you put on a bunch of stuff.  People just are not interested in Savage Sword of Conan in mid grade.  Other then #1 there is no keys so people just skim right on by and on to the key book chase.  I've seen it where dealers put $0.00 and a couple magazines and people don't look enough to notice the magazines or comics are free.  I love it when guys pull out binders with issues they need - those guys will buy non key books and they don't mind paying for the books they need.

SSOConan is a great example to whats happening in the market right now actually. This series always sold poorly in low-mid grade. Heck even in high grade. Unless you had a high grade 1 or a (near) complete set, you wouldnt bother selling those. 

The Dark Horse TPB series on the other hand is one of my biggest and fastest sellers, both on eBay and (especially) on Amazon. I prefer to sell them separately as opposed to as a lot. On Amazon expect to move some of those harder to find ones anywehere from 30-50 in "New" condition. List them, wait a few days, sold. sold. sold

Thats probably an indication that those are still great reads to some, but the format of a Magazine is obviously not appropriate for the reader and probably not to the collector as well.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Comics/63/i.html?LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_from=R40&_nkw=savage+sword+conan+tpb&_sop=13

[jsilverjanet]

The other thing I've seen happen is those who come into the collections decide they are going to sell them themselves (on eBay, at local shows)

I've seen this with 3 large collection of books in the Midwest.

[Bronty]

what this all reminds me of is what happened with a good number of the comic art dealers a few years back.   They stopped getting inventory at the source, and started having to buy it at auction and mark it up.   Didn't work so well.    They got squeezed out in favor of the auction houses; the middleman was cut out.

Seems like the middleman is being cut out of key books as well.    So many options to sell the books that have all the value yourself (including consigning to clink for 10%), so why have someone else do it?

[ComicConnoisseur]

56 minutes ago, aardvark88 said:

Have to look at the staying power of the character. Circa 1966, same could be said for hot heroes like Tarzan, Prince Valiant,  Lone Ranger and Tonto.

Their weakness is they don't fit in the modern world like Batman's Gotham or Spidey's New York.

Let us look at them.

Lone Ranger takes place in the wild west days.

Tarzan the jungle.

Prince Valiant during the King Arthur Merlin days.

Marvel and DC takes place in today's era.

This gives them a huge advantage over my grandfather's favorite characters.

I like those old characters as well,but they just don't have the broad appeal compared to the Marvel and DC characters.

It has been like that for awhile now.

Remember the box office of the 1989 Batman movie to the 1990 Tracy movie?

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[justafan]

17 minutes ago, Bronty said:

what this all reminds me of is what happened with a good number of the comic art dealers a few years back.   They stopped getting inventory at the source, and started having to buy it at auction and mark it up.   Didn't work so well.    They got squeezed out in favor of the auction houses; the middleman was cut out.

Seems like the middleman is being cut out of key books as well.    So many options to sell the books that have all the value yourself (including consigning to clink for 10%), so why have someone else do it?

And a direct result of that is that the source (or middlemen) then becomes the auction houses, the new pricing floor is set by the dealers and collectors bidding on the same items at auction and for those won by the dealers are then resold at the new marked up price.  This could keep driving prices up and up until only the biggest dealers can afford to grab them at auction and only the collectors (or investors) with deep pockets can afford to buy them on the tertiary market.  So what happens next?

Are collectors better off staying out of the auctions and allowing the dealers to nab them for lower prices and then in turn resell them to us at more reasonable prices? Is the comic art outcome inevitable for comics?

 

[Dark Prime 0]

didn't read the whole thing but what's prob going to start happening is thoes with collections already know what they have.  why would they take'em to a dealer when they can sell them themselves or through auctions and not get hosed by a dealer trying to buy them cheap.......even if thoes who recive them after death i'd say theres a 50/50 shot of them going on ebay then to a dealer or they know someone who collects (had this happen a few times, all drek in my cases)

now while i don't have a monster collection like some but when that time comes a dealer is the last person i'm going to look to about selling books to/through......and i remember a few yrs back people saying if something should happen and their wife/gf/kids (most on this site are male) get the collection and want to sell they have a list of names/phone #'s for them to contact so they can get advice on where to sell the books and not be taken advantage of.  it's laughable to think in todays world/market that others looking to sell aren't doing the samethings and want to keep the money for themselves then selling to a dealer for pennies

i know of 2 collections.  1 is through a dealer of a little bit of SA with the majority being BA/CA/modern books but it's been picked though and without the keys the guy wants to much so the dealer keeps saying no to the price, he wants the collection just not at the asking price so it's been a 3-4yr waiting game

the 2nd is a SA/marvel collection, i don't know if it has GA but the guy is going after a complete marvel run.  anytime i see him he asks me about gradeing books but never sends them in .   the dealer is prob the 1st to get a call when he passes since he knows the wife as well and been to their house a few times, i know for a fact it has a ASM1 and iirc he has 2-3 ff1's and god knows what else...............lol apperently the wife wants them gone now.  luckly i'll prob be the 1st person to look at the books

[Bronty]

7 minutes ago, justafan said:

And a direct result of that is that the source (or middlemen) then becomes the auction houses, the new pricing floor is set by the dealers and collectors bidding on the same items at auction and for those won by the dealers are then resold at the new marked up price.  This could keep driving prices up and up until only the biggest dealers can afford to grab them at auction and only the collectors (or investors) with deep pockets can afford to buy them on the tertiary market.  So what happens next?

Are collectors better off staying out of the auctions and allowing the dealers to nab them for lower prices and then in turn resell them to us at more reasonable prices? Is the comic art outcome inevitable for comics?

 

I think its already here.   Nothing you can do, people are just adapting to the conditions.     

[SteppinRazor]

9 hours ago, spreads said:

Agree 100%.  I think there could be shifting interest out of collectible comics, sure, but the industry isn't going away anytime soon.  What has stamps done to evolve and attract new interest?  Comics are backed by big money, and every collectible spiderman: shirt, playing card, toy, movie, show, video game, is a derivative of the comic.

There is a big problem with that though.  And you can see it with Marvel themselves and their relationnship with Fox and Sony.  The comic company, the parent company, and the studios all are in position to make boatloads off of characters.  But creators don't get anything but a salary for their creations.  That's going to lead them to save their best stuff for kickstarter.  And it's crazy that creators and studios like Top Cow even have to use kickstarter.

Movies may be bringing more people, but at the same time killing the source material.  It's not the first and won't be the last where the corporate feeding frenzy leaves not even the bones, and everything looks great until all the sharks swim away.

[thehumantorch]

2 hours ago, Bronty said:

what this all reminds me of is what happened with a good number of the comic art dealers a few years back.   They stopped getting inventory at the source, and started having to buy it at auction and mark it up.   Didn't work so well.    They got squeezed out in favor of the auction houses; the middleman was cut out.

Seems like the middleman is being cut out of key books as well.    So many options to sell the books that have all the value yourself (including consigning to clink for 10%), so why have someone else do it?

A predictable result of the internet, middle men are being squeezed in all types of industries.  Anyone can buy or sell, anyone can be a dealer.

It's very easy to sell keys and hot books but much more difficult to sell large collections of average and common stuff.  What would a dealer rather buy, 20,000 tough to sell  books that have to be hauled out, sorted, perhaps bagged and boarded, stored, and sold over many years or 10 key books that can be carried in one hand and sold quickly through a number of venues for full value?  Dealers know it and collectors know it and that affects how comics are valued and how they're collected.

[ComicConnoisseur]

1 hour ago, thehumantorch said:

A predictable result of the internet, middle men are being squeezed in all types of industries.  Anyone can buy or sell, anyone can be a dealer.

It's very easy to sell keys and hot books but much more difficult to sell large collections of average and common stuff.  What would a dealer rather buy, 20,000 tough to sell  books that have to be hauled out, sorted, perhaps bagged and boarded, stored, and sold over many years or 10 key books that can be carried in one hand and sold quickly through a number of venues for full value?  Dealers know it and collectors know it and that affects how comics are valued and how they're collected.

Agreed.

Digital is taking the middle men out of a lot of hobbies as well with digital comics,books,music,photos and movies.

[Rip]

Its been a tougher year to score some collections. I do a lot of traveling and buying each year. This year I lost out on one Marvel Silver age collection due to some insane offer where I can't dream of the buyer making much more than 5% to 10% with a whole lot of work and pressing. 

But there are still some great collections out there. Collectors who collected heavy in the 50's to 80's have been becoming a more common site.

I know of a couple great ones in my neck of the woods, (one has golden/silver age keys) its just getting harder to temp them with the right amount of dollar signs.

[manetteska]

16 hours ago, jsilverjanet said:

The other thing I've seen happen is those who come into the collections decide they are going to sell them themselves (on eBay, at local shows)

I've seen this with 3 large collection of books in the Midwest.

[jsilverjanet]

31 minutes ago, manetteska said:

One was the guy in Wisconsin that I picked up the ASM300s

the other is where we picked up those Indies from on the south side 

the other one I picked up (last year) when they decided it was too much work - they offered shipping supplies they had purchased etc

[spreads]

12 hours ago, Rip said:

Its been a tougher year to score some collections. I do a lot of traveling and buying each year. This year I lost out on one Marvel Silver age collection due to some insane offer where I can't dream of the buyer making much more than 5% to 10% with a whole lot of work and pressing. 

But there are still some great collections out there. Collectors who collected heavy in the 50's to 80's have been becoming a more common site.

I know of a couple great ones in my neck of the woods, (one has golden/silver age keys) its just getting harder to temp them with the right amount of dollar signs.

There are collectors that buy these bulk deals with not the intent to sell - they have money and they spend it on comics - if that's who you're competing against then there won't be any profit margin.

[spreads]

15 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

There is a big problem with that though.  And you can see it with Marvel themselves and their relationnship with Fox and Sony.  The comic company, the parent company, and the studios all are in position to make boatloads off of characters.  But creators don't get anything but a salary for their creations.  That's going to lead them to save their best stuff for kickstarter.  And it's crazy that creators and studios like Top Cow even have to use kickstarter.

Movies may be bringing more people, but at the same time killing the source material.  It's not the first and won't be the last where the corporate feeding frenzy leaves not even the bones, and everything looks great until all the sharks swim away.

I don't know about that, there is a lot of supply of artists and writers that love this medium and want to get into this industry.  I don't think there will ever be a point when Amazing Spiderman is discontinued from lack of talent. 

 

[FineCollector]

24 minutes ago, spreads said:

There are collectors that buy these bulk deals with not the intent to sell - they have money and they spend it on comics - if that's who you're competing against then there won't be any profit margin.

Direct sales from seller to end buyer are always the ideal for both parties.  It's really only the large or expensive collections that we need professional dealers for.  If the weekend scroungers/flippers have the same budget as I do, they don't really serve much purpose.

[1Cool]

26 minutes ago, FineCollector said:

Direct sales from seller to end buyer are always the ideal for both parties.  It's really only the large or expensive collections that we need professional dealers for.  If the weekend scroungers/flippers have the same budget as I do, they don't really serve much purpose.

That is a good point.  Days past a large collection (or even a mid sized collection of nice material) would have to be bought by a big dealer who then sold specific books to a waiting list of buyers.  The casual buyer did not have the time, money, expertise or desire to buy a large collection and try to sell the books they did not need.  Now almost any knowledgeable comic book collector with a decent bank roll can compete for pretty much every collection except the mega ones. 

The flippers do have some use in the fact that they find the in-demand books in uncharted locations (or maybe just johnny on the spot) so the collectors do not need to spend weekends looking for books at garage sales or auction houses.  I can see why a collector would be put off by flippers since they end up paying quite a bit more then if they bought the books directly from other collectors.  Is that how the boards use to be?  Collectors selling books to other collectors as a discount compared to the big dealers?  I've been here for awhile and although I do hear people say the boards use to be friendlier I still remember the dealers swooping in and buying up batches of books below market so I don't think much has changed except maybe the number of collectors/sellers has exploded over the last 6-7 years.

[the blob]

On 6/13/2017 at 4:08 PM, spreads said:

You're saying it's better to price them at $2-4?  Don't undercut your price since they're not selling anyway?   Hindsight is 20-20, I had a garage sale advertised at 50 cents/comic real cheap a few years back and it was a feeding frenzy, then next time I ran one no one showed-up!

I dunno, seems like those earlier savage swords should be more than a buck. Actually, they should all be more than a buck depending on the condition.  Lugging them around is a PITA.  They're great books.  Too bad people don't care about stories and art anymore. I'd pay more than a buck for a lot of them and I own most already.

As for the late 60s/early 70s marvels DCs, again, if you just want to get rid of them quick, make them a buck. But how often will you be able to replace that stock for much less than that?  I pay $2 for that stuff if I like the issue or whatever.

Anyway, I guess I would have given the shot at $2, maybe more, see what sold, before making them "half price" at a buck, but then again, I never had a lot of success doing shows.

[01TheDude]

it is weird to hear known dealers refer to other buyers as flippers. Isn't that pretty much what dealers are and have been since the get go?

The more I read the thread, the less I am inclined to continue filling out my runs or pursuing more books in general. Dealers seems to value books I think of as treasures as common and practically worthless. Perhaps they are to someone who has a stockpile of books and buys massive collections for pennies on the dollar all the time. The more I read these discussions, the more I feel like I am overpaying for everything I buy. Collections drying up? Maybe it is collectors giving up on this system that buys super low and sells at a premium. I understand it is your business but I doubt I will ever sell to a known dealer on this board. They are easy to spot-- only asking for key books in high grade and for a fraction of GPA. People talk about the great deals to be had here but I starting to get skeptical of that line of reason. Time to decide whether to hibernate (again) or offload the collection I guess. Or I could actually just enjoy what I already have and decide what I feel like keeping around.

It is almost like there should be two boards sometimes-- one with the "big shot" dealers (or the wannabes) and one for the basic collector types.

[jsilverjanet]

I love how much of the work involved gets lost in these discussions let alone the time and money spent.