WONDER WOMAN 2 directed by Patty Jenkins (11/1/19) 3 3

[@therealsilvermane]

14 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

So with MCU films if they take a longer time to introduce a character or a character is all-powerful/all-knowing, then we just assume they had full knowledge of something?

Are you thinking this through as you type these things? 

You do understand that the MCU films all tell an interconnected story, right? Mar Vell is a Kree scientist, so being a cosmic being, it's obvious she knows about cosmic non-Earthly stuff. Just like the Nova Prime knew what the Power Stone was in GOTG Vol 1, Mar Vell would know about the Space Stone. It's why she came to Earth.

[theCapraAegagrus]

32 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Again, Mar Vell is a Kree alien, so it's not a stretch for her to know. It would be a stretch if Maria Rambeau knew all about the Tesseract, though. Get it? Probably not...

What is the basis of your assumption?

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

Not really. Red Skull knew about it in First Avenger, but it was already set up as a relic with a hiding place that mortal men knew about in legend. The Dreamstone was just floating around obliviously in a mall store and then some museum and somehow Max Lord knows all.

 

1 minute ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You do understand that the MCU films all tell an interconnected story, right? Mar Vell is a Kree scientist, so being a cosmic being, it's obvious she knows about cosmic non-Earthly stuff. Just like the Nova Prime knew what the Power Stone was in GOTG Vol 1, Mar Vell would know about the Space Stone. It's why she came to Earth.

It kills you when someone doesn't worship the MCU as the end-all/be-all, doesn't it? That's some fanatical dedication.

So if a studio creates an interconnected franchise AND takes a long time to ease a character into the main event then we just assume all the knowledge has been acquired necessary to accomplish their mission? Even if it is never actually shown occurring. But if another studio does it in one film then that is unacceptable. WE MUST SEE ALL THE DETAILS!

Come on. Recognize what it is you are doing to yourself. Even with Shazam when you were trying to convince yourself David Sandberg was purposely offending Asian people with a joke that hardly anyone would take from the scene, it's clear what is occuring. You force yourself to dislike these films as some form of over-loyalty to Feige and Disney/MCU. That is not a healthy mindset for anyone. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

5 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You do understand that the MCU films all tell an interconnected story, right? Mar Vell is a Kree scientist, so being a cosmic being, it's obvious she knows about cosmic non-Earthly stuff. Just like the Nova Prime knew what the Power Stone was in GOTG Vol 1, Mar Vell would know about the Space Stone. It's why she came to Earth.

"Kree Scientist" =/= "Omniscience of Cosmic Artifacts"

The Tesseract only has written history between Asgard and Midgard.

Also, Nova Prime had no idea that The Orb was the Power Stone.

[@therealsilvermane]

36 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

"Kree Scientist" =/= "Omniscience of Cosmic Artifacts"

The Tesseract only has written history between Asgard and Midgard.

Also, Nova Prime had no idea that The Orb was the Power Stone.

You're right, Nova Prime did not immediately know what the Power Stone was. It's through Taneleer Tivan that we learn the Orb is the Power Stone. As well, it's not stated in Captain Marvel that Mar Vell came to Earth for the Space Stone. I'll walk my previous statements back. But this underlines my point even more. Even Nova Prime and Mar Vell didn't necessarily know the whereabouts of the two Infinity Stones. But once they got a hold of them, it's not a stretch that they knew what to do with them, as it's been established over the course of several MCU films that there is some general knowledge in the universe of the Infinity Stones if you're in the know, like an Asgardian or a Kree or a Sorcerer Supreme.

Even more, the Space Stone was set up as an ancient artifact that Red Skull knew was under the protection of a Norwegian village and was an incredible power source that became known to both Hydra and SHIELD over the course of First Avenger. Thusly, it's not a stretch that a Kree scientist with advanced knowledge would be able to truly tap the Stone's power to create a light speed engine.

It's not set up at all how a sleazy loser mortal businessman would somehow know where the long lost Dreamstone was, what it was, and knew what to do with it. Diana, who is half Greek goddess, had the thing in her hands and didn't know what it was. That's just dumb.

Edited January 4, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[theCapraAegagrus]

10 minutes ago, @therealsilvermane said:

You're right, Nova Prime did not immediately know what the Power Stone was. It's through Taneleer Tivan that we learn the Orb is the Power Stone. As well, it's not stated in Captain Marvel that Mar Vell came to Earth for the Space Stone. I'll walk my previous statements back. But this underlines my point even more. Even Nova Prime and Mar Vell didn't necessarily know the whereabouts of the two Infinity Stones. But once they got a hold of them, it's not a stretch that they knew what to do with them, as it's been established over the course of several MCU films that there is some general knowledge in the universe of the Infinity Stones if you're in the know, like an Asgardian or a Kree or a Sorcerer Supreme.

Even more, the Space Stone was set up as an ancient artifact that Red Skull knew was under the protection of a Norwegian village and was an incredible power source that became known to both Hydra and SHIELD over the course of First Avenger. Thusly, it's not a stretch that a Kree scientist with advanced knowledge would be able to truly tap the Stone's power to create a light speed engine.

It's not set up at all how a sleazy loser mortal businessman would somehow know where the long lost Dreamstone was, what it was, and knew what to do with it. Diana, who is half Greek goddess, had the thing in her hands and didn't know what it was. That's just dumb.

In the case of the Nova Corps, that's correct. That is not the case regarding Mar-Vell, though. By the time the Power Stone is left on Xandar, the heroes already knew what The Orb really contained. No one knew what the Tesseract really was until a year later, when Thor has his vision in Age of Ultron. You could argue that Thanos and The Other knew, since they provided Loki with the knowledge to open up portals in The Avengers, but that's another assumption.

It is a stretch that a "Kree Scientist" knew what the Tesseract really is and how it works. Just as much of a stretch as SHIELD knowing what it was (and SHIELD is who she worked for, decades prior). Red Skull had the most accurate and ancient knowledge, that it came from Odin's Treasure Room. He didn't know what it did - like SHIELD - other than provide "power".

[Bosco685]

2 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

In the case of the Nova Corps, that's correct. That is not the case regarding Mar-Vell, though. By the time the Power Stone is left on Xandar, the heroes already knew what The Orb really contained. No one knew what the Tesseract really was until a year later, when Thor has his vision in Age of Ultron. You could argue that Thanos and The Other knew, since they provided Loki with the knowledge to open up portals in The Avengers, but that's another assumption.

It is a stretch that a "Kree Scientist" knew what the Tesseract really is and how it works. Just as much of a stretch as SHIELD knowing what it was (and SHIELD is who she worked for, decades prior). Red Skull had the most accurate and ancient knowledge, that it came from Odin's Treasure Room. He didn't know what it did - like SHIELD - other than provide "power".

But that's just it. We need a Disney+ spin-off show that shows us all of these details. Every last bit. Otherwise our connected universe may not seem as connected. The Onion did a spot on this once. Every character must have a spin-off show or else none of this has been worth the time invested.

"There are literally dozens of supporting characters and and even more extras who have not been the subject of their own TV tie-in or movies..." 

We need the guy with the black hat eating in the background RIGHT NOW! 

[Comicopolis]

So, Maxwell Lord is the Thanos of this movie?

[@therealsilvermane]

28 minutes ago, Angel of Death said:

No one knew what the Tesseract really was until a year later, when Thor has his vision in Age of Ultron.

That's the Mind Stone that Thor has a vision about in Age of Ultron.

The Space Stone everybody knows about because it'd been under SHIELD custody since Captain Marvel, and decades more before that before Mar Vell swiped it for her own use and stashed it aboard her orbiting laboratory. SHIELD even unknowingly uses it to make a portal to the other side of the universe through which Loki enters in Avengers.

Edited January 4, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[kav]

8 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Found the real answer. Though still the movie could have addressed this more effectively in the end (maybe it does and I missed it).

By Diana getting Maxwell Lord to renounce his wish of wanting to be the Dreamstone, any wishes granted during his time of being the Dreamstone are null and void. Which is when we see certain wishes being undone. Such as the wish to have England rid of Irish residents, or the husband that wished his wife dead.

Dreamstone Explained: Origin, History, Rules, Wishes & Weaknesses

I thought of that but then why was Diana exhorting everyone around the world (somehow) to give up their wishes?
Man this movie wishes were fishes man.

[Roger66]

14 hours ago, kav said:

 also unexplained was how wonder woman spoke to everyone when the TV camera was busted and also how could they even watch TV when they were running down the street screaming.  And also how psychopaths etc would renounce jack ****.

Trying to analyze or dissect this pointless movie is akin to trying to occupy the headspace of a complete insufficiently_thoughtful_person. 

[kav]

3 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Although WW84 was disappointing for me compared to the first film which is fantastic, I don't get the fixation on this question.

A huckster came into possession of some artifact somewhere in his travels that told of an all-powerful stone that could grant wishes. He probably swindled someone out of it through a tricky deal leading to him becoming aware of this artifact. Knowing how fixated he was on being powerful and admired, it's not that hard to accept this assumption. A con man finding out about a god-created stone and looking for the easy way to his dreams spends all he can to track it down.

Those are good theories and should have been included in the screenplay.  You cannot let a major plot element go unexplained.  Imagine a cop movie and at the end the cops are outnumbered and under fire and suddenly one of em pulls out a ray gun and starts blasting.  You cannot do this stuff in a --script.

Edited January 4, 2021 by kav

[kav]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

I actually started typing that out earlier and knew it would fall on deaf ears. Never did the MCU show Thanos researching the full powers of the Infinity Stones, nor how to logically piece them all together via an Infinity Gauntlet to fully utilize their combined capabilities. It was just assumed he had sorted all this out on his own, and let's get on with the adventure.

Max Lord is no Thanos.  Thanos as written knew a lot about a lot.  He was surrounded by supernatural allies.  Max as written knew about con games.

[kav]

I liked this movie-I was just pointing out some -script errors, which every movie has, being a screenplay fanatic.  The failing here in comparing the infinity stones to the wish stone is a lot of people knew about the various infinity stones.  That was depicted in numerous ways.  NO ONE knew about the wish stone-not even the top archeologists of the world.  That means there was no info on it or so little that it would be impossible for some con man to 'stumble' upon it.  If he did stumble upon it, that needs to be shown.  Imagine if peter parker suddenly in the next scene had spider powers-no explanation no nuthin.  The only book that mentioned it was some Mayan dude's in a warehouse.  So how did Max learn of it-that simply HAS to be explained in a complete screenplay.
You dont have to explain how Thanos knew about the infinity stones because lots of people knew about them.
Get it?

[kav]

And oh yeah one reason the film didnt have an 80s feel was no 80s music, as was used in Watchmen.  A scene at say a Police concert or various other 80s activities would have helped a lot.  People smoking clove cigarettes and stuff. They should have consulted me.  I keep telling them to consult me but they never do.

[Bosco685]

14 minutes ago, kav said:

Max Lord is no Thanos.  Thanos as written knew a lot about a lot.  He was surrounded by supernatural allies.  Max as written knew about con games.

See - but you are falling into the same -script requirements trap.

• If human, then we must see the full story of how they came by their knowledge and direction - including if we can get this in a previous film
• If super-powered being, disregard first requirement because we all know they had this figured out from some omnipotent awareness of all things - duhhhh!

 Why do we just assume Thanos had it all figured and call it done? Because he made appearances in many MCU films and is super-powerful?

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 hour ago, @therealsilvermane said:

That's the Mind Stone that Thor has a vision about in Age of Ultron.

The Space Stone everybody knows about because it'd been under SHIELD custody since Captain Marvel, and decades more before that before Mar Vell swiped it for her own use and stashed it aboard her orbiting laboratory. SHIELD even unknowingly uses it to make a portal to the other side of the universe through which Loki enters in Avengers.

That's incorrect, as he has a vision of the 4 Stones that have been seen in the MCU at that point, Mr. Fanboy.

That is also incorrect, as SHIELD has no idea what the Tesseract is doing at the beginning of The Avengers ("it's misbehaving", meaning they weren't doing anything to it, implying that Loki is opening the portal), Mr. Fanboy.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Angel of Death

[kav]

1 minute ago, Bosco685 said:

See - but you are falling into the same --script requirements trap.

• If human, then we must see the full story of how they came by their knowledge and direction - including if we can get this in a previous film
• If super-powered being, disregard first requirement because we all know they had this figured out from some omnipotent awareness of all things - duhhhh!

 Why do we just assume Thanos had it all figured and call it done? Because he made appearances in many MCU films and is super-powerful?

no because plenty of people knew about the stones.  Thanos was surrounded by supernatural allies and was obsessed with his mission.  it would seem weird if he DIDNT know about the stones.
It has nothing to do with super powers.

[Bosco685]

7 minutes ago, kav said:

I liked this movie-I was just pointing out some --script errors, which every movie has, being a screenplay fanatic.  The failing here in comparing the infinity stones to the wish stone is a lot of people knew about the various infinity stones.  That was depicted in numerous ways.  NO ONE knew about the wish stone-not even the top archeologists of the world.  That means there was no info on it or so little that it would be impossible for some con man to 'stumble' upon it.  If he did stumble upon it, that needs to be shown.  Imagine if peter parker suddenly in the next scene had spider powers-no explanation no nuthin.  The only book that mentioned it was some Mayan dude's in a warehouse.  So how did Max learn of it-that simply HAS to be explained in a complete screenplay.
You dont have to explain how Thanos knew about the infinity stones because lots of people knew about them.
Get it?

But when the story then went down the path of tracking down eons of mentions over time and even tied these appearances to cataclysmic events that seemed a creative way to convey how dangerous this stone was. Yet it had been in plain sight the entire time without the general world history spelling out what the root cause was for what occurred.

Not saying this film did a super job telling the story. But give a little credit where credit is due. Human villain or not. 

[kav]

Just now, Bosco685 said:

But when the story then went down the path of tracking down eons of mentions over time and even tied these appearances to cataclysmic events that seemed a creative way to convey how dangerous this stone was. Yet it had been in plain sight the entire time without the general world history spelling out what the root cause was for what occurred.

Not saying this film did a super job telling the story. But give a little credit where credit is due. Human villain or not. 

mentions in a single book in the entire world no one knew about tho.