WONDER WOMAN 2 directed by Patty Jenkins (11/1/19) 3 3

[Gatsby77]

8 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

And there is the keys to the kingdom with your assumptions - everything that you read and wanted to believe.

Yet it was Norton that cranked out a --script in a month as a draft and kept on editing it during production after Zak Penn had already provided a --script beforehand. The guy that also wrote Last Action Hero and other screenplays, along with the story later on used to guide Avengers (2012). So he may know something about an effective --script from professional experience as his job.

Weird take - that Edward Norton is somehow a lesser writer than Norton, given that Norton's genre is entirely different. Norton's style of dramas aren't blockbusters.

Also weird because Zak Penn's written some true garbage as well (Suspect Zero, Elektra).

And Half of Hollywood was involved in The Last Action Hero re-write, including not just Shane Black but also folks like Carrie Fisher and William Goldman.

You really want to make the case for Zak Penn's writing over William Goldman?

Good luck with that!

[Gatsby77]

4 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

There's a very good reason Feige ended up producing the 13-minute Marvel One-Shot 'All Hail The King' post-Iron Man 3.

And it certainly wasn't because Ben Kingsley, Sam Rockwell and Scott McNairy had an afternoon to kill some time so they thought to make this just for the heck of it.

Sometimes a Shane Black --script needs some adjusting

Nope. It was pure fan-service and arguably not canon.

Why?

1) Feige knew exactly what he was doing when he approved the theatrical Iron Man 3 -script - and this was validated by the critical reviews and worldwide box office success.

2) If it was *truly* important to the MCU (and canonical), it would have been included as a mid- or post-credits teaser in any of the next half dozen MCU films. 

Including it merely as a DVD extra means it's got all the weight of a deleted scene.

[Bosco685]

Just now, Gatsby77 said:

Weird take - that Edward Norton is somehow a lesser writer than Norton, given that Norton's genre is entirely different. Norton's style of dramas aren't blockbusters.

Also weird because Zak Penn's written some true garbage as well (Suspect Zero, Elektra).

And Half of Hollywood was involved in The Last Action Hero re-write, including not just Shane Black but also folks like Carrie Fisher and William Goldman.

You really want to make the case for Zak Penn's writing over William Goldman?

Good luck with that!

Ed Norton vs Ed Norton? Did you think that through?

Zak Penn;s screenwriting credits (good with the bad):

Ed Norton's professional screenwriting credits:

Yeah. I think I'll go with the person that has had to learn through professional wins and losses serving as an actual screenwriter over 21 released products and 3 pending.

 

[Bosco685]

Just now, Gatsby77 said:

Nope. It was pure fan-service and arguably not canon.

Why?

1) Feige knew exactly what he was doing when he approved the theatrical Iron Man 3 --script - and this was validated by the critical reviews and worldwide box office success.

2) If it was *truly* important to the MCU (and canonical), it would have been included as a mid- or post-credits teaser in any of the next half dozen MCU films. 

Including it merely as a DVD extra means it's got all the weight of a deleted scene.

Nice try. And you said it with such confidence too.

Pearce, Kingsley Discuss "All Hail the King," Share New "Winter Soldier" Footage

Quote

Speaking about the Marvel One-Shot concept as a whole, Feige told the theatre that when it comes to making the shorts, "It really is about what's the idea, not, 'Oh, we have to add another feature on the Blu-ray.' It's an added bonus when you have someone like Drew and you get Sir Ben Kingsley to agree to appear in your short."

 

"It's amazing, and it doesn't happen often!" Feige agreed.

 

"It is quite weird to essentially have followed up one of the biggest movies of all time with a small student film," Pearce quipped.

 

"I missed Trevor -- I was worried about him!" Kingsley stated when asked why he agreed to come back to the role. "I visited him in rehab and told him there was going to be a sequel and he was like, 'Oh, that's wonderful. I'm really delighted,'" Kingsley continued, slipping into Trevor's drunk slur.

 

Chuckling when Pearce pointed out Feige allowed them to put Kingsley in a giant '80s wig "made of real Russian hair" and film a monkey drinking vodka for the short, Feige added, "The whole purpose of Trevor is to go off the rails!"

Feige is very proud of that short because it confirmed the real Mandarin was a pending reveal to the world. Which 'All Hail The King' confirmed.

[D84]

You can tell the quality of Wonder Woman 1984 by the fact that we are discussing the Edward Norton Hulk film in its thread.

[Bosco685]

45 minutes ago, D84 said:

You can tell the quality of Wonder Woman 1984 by the fact that we are discussing the Edward Norton Hulk film in its thread.

Unfortunately!

[D84]

I finally got around to checking out the special features on the disc. It's garden variety stuff. Even the gag reel was unimpressive. 

[Bosco685]

34 minutes ago, D84 said:

I finally got around to checking out the special features on the disc. It's garden variety stuff. Even the gag reel was unimpressive. 

What a missed opportunity!

[D84]

3 minutes ago, Bosco685 said:

What a missed opportunity!

That can be said for the movie as well.

[Bosco685]

6 minutes ago, D84 said:

That can be said for the movie as well.

 That was my intended target. 

[kav]

Enjoy being in a room with guys that know more than me about screen writing.  Super hobby of mine is reading screenplay and hollywood books.  For some reason it fascinates me how movies are constructed.  I also read Cinefex, altho its been a while.  The amount of work that goes into a film is amazing.   

Edited April 7, 2021 by kav

[Gatsby77]

12 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Yet it was Norton that cranked out a --script in a month as a draft and kept on editing it during production after Zak Penn had already provided a --script beforehand. The guy that also wrote Last Action Hero and other screenplays, along with the story later on used to guide Avengers (2012). So he may know something about an effective --script from professional experience as his job.

And yet, for all that, Marvel hired Norton to rewrite the -script, as well as star. Giving him only about a month to do so.

Marvel shot Norton's -script, not Penn's.

Producer Gale Anne Hurd acknowledged at Comic Con that Norton wrote it - hence Penn's going to arbitration for (and winning sole) screenwriting credit.

And yet Marvel then butchered Norton's vision in the editing room, excising ~20 minutes of footage that added depth and characterization.

Yes - Norton's a diva and a .

But Marvel went with his page one rewrite over Penn's. Only to then go all Harvey Weinstein on the editing room later on.

[Bosco685]

22 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said:

And yet, for all that, Marvel hired Norton to rewrite the --script, as well as star. Giving him only about a month to do so.

Marvel shot Norton's --script, not Penn's.

Producer Gale Anne Hurd acknowledged at Comic Con that Norton wrote it - hence Penn's going to arbitration for (and winning sole) screenwriting credit.

And yet Marvel then butchered Norton's vision in the editing room, excising ~20 minutes of footage that added depth and characterization.

Yes - Norton's a diva and a .

But Marvel went with his page one rewrite over Penn's. Only to then go all Harvey Weinstein on the editing room later on.

Feige was shooting his second movie with a rising star. So he appeased his desire to make Hulk Norton's own though he had limited screenwriting experience.

Notice we have never heard of something like this happening again? Yeah. There's a reason why.

Nice try, though. Remember - you never change an Ed Norton rewrite. 

[drotto]

10 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

What a missed opportunity!

Wait you do not want the Patty Jenkins cut? 

[Gatsby77]

2 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Feige was shooting his second movie with a rising star. So he appeased his desire to make Hulk Norton's own though he had limited screenwriting experience.

Umm...Edward Norton was a rising star in 2006? 

He was more than a decade into his career, had made more than 15 major movies in a decade (co-starring with the likes of De Niro, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Richard Gere & Anthony Hopkins) and had two Oscar nominations under his belt.

He was easily a bigger star when he was cast than Robert Downey, Jr. at that point.

And his well-known (albeit uncredited) re-write on Frida had helped Salma Hayek score an Oscar nomination just a few years earlier.

[Bosco685]

7 hours ago, drotto said:

Wait you do not want the Patty Jenkins cut? 

Now tell a Martha joke. It will be so unique and fresh.

 

[Bosco685]

7 hours ago, Gatsby77 said:

Umm...Edward Norton was a rising star in 2006? 

He was more than a decade into his career, had made more than 15 major movies in a decade (co-starring with the likes of De Niro, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Richard Gere & Anthony Hopkins) and had two Oscar nominations under his belt.

He was easily a bigger star when he was cast than Robert Downey, Jr. at that point.

And his well-known (albeit uncredited) re-write on Frida had helped Salma Hayek score an Oscar nomination just a few years earlier.

Sure. Distract from the real topic.

Why Edward Norton Doesn't Get Many Movie Offers

Quote

In 2008, Marvel Studios reacquired the rights to the Incredible Hulk from Universal, following the poorly reviewed 2003 Hulk. Marvel opted to reboot the franchise as The Incredible Hulk and hired Zak Penn (who'd co-written a couple of X-Men movies) to write the screenplay. The studio approached Norton to star, and after meeting with director Louis Leterrier, he signed on, provided any suggestions he made to Penn's screenplay be incorporated into the -script.

 

Norton evidently did a substantial rewrite of the movie just weeks before filming started, and Leterrier shot as much of Norton's -script as possible, along with Penn's, which resulted in a very messy, convoluted cut.

 

Marvel executives hated the edit and ordered a new one, with more action and less dialogue and character development—the latter two were largely Norton's focus.

 

Marvel so resented Norton's meddling that when it came time to bring the Hulk back to the big screen as part of The Avengers, the role was given to Mark Ruffalo. Studios almost never comment on why an actor is or isn't cast, but Marvel took the rare step of issuing a statement saying they wanted "an actor who embodies the creative and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members." In short: they were sick of him and didn't want to deal with his shenanigans again.

But at least he saved Frida. Right?

[Gatsby77]

6 hours ago, Bosco685 said:

Sure. Distract from the real topic.

Why Edward Norton Doesn't Get Many Movie Offers

But at least he saved Frida. Right?

90% of the finished film was from Norton's -script. And yet

a) Penn still was the only credited screenwriter (note the myriad sources that quote journalist Anne Thompson, who pointed out "The Writer's Guild tends to favor plot, structure and pre-existing characters over dialogue") and

b) Norton believes Marvel effectively hired him under false pretenses because they gave him creative control in his contract and then cut 20 minutes of his -script - scenes that were shot and finished - in the editing room. Even if that's untrue (and knowing Norton - he could be embellishing to save face). But even if he didn't have final cut, it's double insult-to-injury when his -script is shot, he's denied any screenwriting credit and then it's not even his vision to boot.

For someone who is so quick to lay the blame for the mediocrity or downright wretchedness of several DCEU misfires, you don't seem to hold Marvel to the same standards re. their studio interference.

(A notable exception: I think you were among the legion of fans who were pissed at Marvel for firing Edgar Wright from Ant-Man.)

[Bosco685]

1 minute ago, Gatsby77 said:

90% of the finished film was from Norton's --script. And yet

a) Penn still was the only credited screenwriter (note the myriad sources that quote journalist Anne Thompson, who pointed out "The Writer's Guild tends to favor plot, structure and pre-existing characters over dialogue") and

b) Norton believes Marvel effectively hired him under false pretenses because they gave him creative control in his contract and then cut 20 minutes of his --script - scenes that were shot and finished - in the editing room. Even if that's untrue (and knowing Norton - he could be embellishing to save face). But even if he didn't have final cut, it's double insult-to-injury when his --script is shot, he's denied any screenwriting credit and then it's not even his vision to boot.

For someone who is so quick to lay the blame for the mediocrity or downright wretchedness of several DCEU misfires, you don't seem to hold Marvel to the same standards re. their studio interference.

(A notable exception: I think you were among the legion of fans who were pissed at Marvel for firing Edgar Wright from Ant-Man.)

90% - where did you pull that metric from? That seems very specific.

But there does seem to be a pattern with Norton and The Writers Guild. Including with Freda which took 8 years to make, so not sure how much 'saving' Norton did when it was already in the works.

Does Marvel tamper? Heck yes. And if you took more time to read than preach you would have noted where I called this out. Including Patty Jenkins parting ways with the MCU, Edgar Wright leaving over MCC tampering and even at the time Joss Whedon having a nervous breakdown after filming Age of Ultron over wars with the MCC.

[D84]

On a happy note.