Splash Vs Cover (Modern vs Older) 0

[Panelfan1]

When you love comic art, you can't help but think about it and sometimes you think up questions that need feedback or affirmation. Appologies in advance for the rambling nature of this topic.

The question is as follows - are the price multiples that a cover is worth relative to a splash page, different for modern art as compared with older vintage art?

 

For sake of argument/calculation - looking at quality but not key books (not a first appearance or some such). so no 1st n Neal Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow or 1st x23, etc..   Obviously there are other factors that I am not sure if you can control in the below calculation (like having an important artist on a book.)

Preamble - vintage (bronze and older) covers are generally valued at many multiples of individual pages (for average pages).

1 cover = 10 to 20 regular pages?

1 cover = 5 splash pages?

So those are my guesses above, and you can argue how off I am on those values.

But then, I got to thinking more about it -and started wondering - do those #s work for modern books?

if you have a bronze age page or older - those multiples above might make sense -but for modern art -where a cover is worth a lot less (say $1000-$3000) instead of  $5000 -$5000, does the same multiples still hold up for quality (cover like) splash page? 

To define quality splash page - A page featuring the main characters of the book in a prominent way as might also appear on a cover. (so not a small figure in a big background, or some such thing .)

So in my estimate for less expensive modern books

1 modern cover = 2-3 modern splash pages?

To add another wrinkle into this - many modern  comics have more covers (thanks to variants) than proper splash pages. While old time covers often showed a scene from inside the book - many of todays modern covers are more pin-up.  So a quality splash may actually offer both a nice image of the characters but also tie in better to the actual comic as it depicts a scene from the comic.

In conclusion - what do you guys think about all this?

 

[PhilipB2k17]

9 hours ago, Panelfan1 said:

When you love comic art, you can't help but think about it and sometimes you think up questions that need feedback or affirmation. Appologies in advance for the rambling nature of this topic.

The question is as follows - are the price multiples that a cover is worth relative to a splash page, different for modern art as compared with older vintage art?

 

For sake of argument/calculation - looking at quality but not key books (not a first appearance or some such). so no 1st n Neal Adams Green Lantern/Green Arrow or 1st x23, etc..   Obviously there are other factors that I am not sure if you can control in the below calculation (like having an important artist on a book.)

Preamble - vintage (bronze and older) covers are generally valued at many multiples of individual pages (for average pages).

1 cover = 10 to 20 regular pages?

1 cover = 5 splash pages?

So those are my guesses above, and you can argue how off I am on those values.

But then, I got to thinking more about it -and started wondering - do those #s work for modern books?

if you have a bronze age page or older - those multiples above might make sense -but for modern art -where a cover is worth a lot less (say $1000-$3000) instead of  $5000 -$5000, does the same multiples still hold up for quality (cover like) splash page? 

To define quality splash page - A page featuring the main characters of the book in a prominent way as might also appear on a cover. (so not a small figure in a big background, or some such thing .)

So in my estimate for less expensive modern books

1 modern cover = 2-3 modern splash pages?

To add another wrinkle into this - many modern  comics have more covers (thanks to variants) than proper splash pages. While old time covers often showed a scene from inside the book - many of todays modern covers are more pin-up.  So a quality splash may actually offer both a nice image of the characters but also tie in better to the actual comic as it depicts a scene from the comic.

In conclusion - what do you guys think about all this?

 

Well, I have the best of both worlds (I guess) when it comes to one of my modern pages. I have an interior splash that was actually turned ~into~ a variant cover by the Publisher. Here's the link to it on my CAF page.

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1402822

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Mr. Machismo]

Quality / moment being equal:

Cover > splash > variant cover > regional variant cover, IMO. 

What's happening, who's present, and visuals are very important [to me]. Look at the DPS of the Supes/Batman fight from Hush VS the 617 cover. Went for the exact same price, down to the dollar. That said, the BvS image was a whole lot better IMO. 

I think it's too difficult to affix a formula that would generally apply. There's too many exceptions, and some comics where covers and splashes are equal. 

Look at Long Halloween, splashes are way better/typically go for more than the covers due to the simplicity/object nature of the covers. 

[PhilipB2k17]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Quality / moment being equal:

Cover > splash > variant cover > regional variant cover, IMO. 

What's happening, who's present, and visuals are very important [to me]. Look at the DPS of the Supes/Batman fight from Hush VS the 617 cover. Went for the exact same price, down to the dollar. That said, the BvS image was a whole lot better IMO. 

I think it's too difficult to affix a formula that would generally apply. There's too many exceptions, and some comics where covers and splashes are equal. 

Look at Long Halloween, splashes are way better/typically go for more than the covers due to the simplicity/object nature of the covers. 

I'd modify that heirarchy to say that a rarer variant cover is likely more valuable than Cover A, depending on the artist! 

Edited August 22, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Twanj]

Well there are reps selling current stuff. How does it work out there?

[PhilipB2k17]

6 minutes ago, Twanj said:

Well there are reps selling current stuff. How does it work out there?

Hopefully Felix will chime in on this question. Although, he may not want to divulge his proprietary pricing methodology.

[SquareChaos]

59 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Well, I have the best of both worlds (I guess) when it comes to one of my modern pages. I have an interior splash that was actually turned ~into~ a variant cover by the Publisher. Here's the link to it on my CAF page.

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1402822

 

 

 

I've wanted a Stokoe Godzilla piece for a while, but I've been looking primarily for a 50 Year War page and haven't really seen one to my liking. I do like your page and would have likely bought it myself if the price was right, very nice. How did the page being used as a splash impact your cost? Or did you get it prior to that happening?

[Twanj]

http://www.splashpageart.com/newitems.asp

 

1 cover = 3 splashes? sometimes.

[PhilipB2k17]

38 minutes ago, SquareChaos said:

I've wanted a Stokoe Godzilla piece for a while, but I've been looking primarily for a 50 Year War page and haven't really seen one to my liking. I do like your page and would have likely bought it myself if the price was right, very nice. How did the page being used as a splash impact your cost? Or did you get it prior to that happening?

I saw a Stokoe Godzilla DPS from Oblivion that blew me away, and inquired about it. But sadly, it had already been sold. So, I looked for another Stokoe Godzilla page, and found this one. I paid an very fair interior page price for it. And when I searched for the comic on eBay (I like to have the comic my pages are from) I came across the SDCC Variant cover using my splash. 

Needless to say, I was pretty happy to find that out. 

Edited August 22, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[Mr. Machismo]

2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'd modify that heirarchy to say that a rarer variant cover is likely more valuable than Cover A, depending on the artist! 

Yeah, this is my point. There's no formula around it and it's impossible to apply one that covers everything, or even half of everything. If someone is buying art based on a formula like this, they should probably hold off and familiarize themselves better before they drop 3x value on a cover just because it's a cover. 

[SquareChaos]

2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I'd modify that heirarchy to say that a rarer variant cover is likely more valuable than Cover A, depending on the artist! 

 

37 minutes ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Yeah, this is my point. There's no formula around it and it's impossible to apply one that covers everything, or even half of everything. If someone is buying art based on a formula like this, they should probably hold off and familiarize themselves better before they drop 3x value on a cover just because it's a cover. 

My personal preference is almost always with the regular artist. I'm sure there are exceptions, but that is where I'd fall 99% of the time. Not that I'm even a cover collector 

[JadeGiant]

I love threads like this – the ones of great interest but no way to land on a definitive answer (but always fun trying). I don’t think I have a lot to add because I look at the art from an aesthetic and content perspective first and foremost and that is how I assign value. As such, the premiums a cover demands often prices me out for what I want to pay in relation to what might be available from the splashes and panel pages. I often find great value personally in a nice half or 2/3 splash page. Old school Marvel was similar IMO as I almost always enjoyed the opening and/or closing splash over the cover (which often was not congruent with the story within the issue in some manner which bugged me).  

[Panelfan1]

5 hours ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Yeah, this is my point. There's no formula around it and it's impossible to apply one that covers everything, or even half of everything. If someone is buying art based on a formula like this, they should probably hold off and familiarize themselves better before they drop 3x value on a cover just because it's a cover. 

Agreed.  A formula is impossible. On the other hand having a rule of thumb can be helpful.  

Also one of the questions I was posing was how this ratio might differ between modern and older art?  

The more opinions - the better!

[williamhlawson]

Older splashes are a lot less common, period.  New splashes are drawn entirely too often due to THIS market in and of itself (imho).  Image certainly upped the splashy page count, making more per book available, and the artists pay higher I assume in the long run due to the increased value attributed to the splashes.  How many covers/splashes/interior pages were produced for ALL comics in say June 1974 as opposed to say June 1994 ... a fraction I am certain.  This coupled with multiple modern splashes per issue as opposed to maybe one or two in older books.  Just seems obvious due to supply and demand to me.  The cover 'variants' are still covers, and if one is by Bianchi/Ross and the other is by 'x' then there isn't really a question as to a formula.  Add that to some items being lost over time, destroyed, etc....and the new splashes seems like it should carry a smaller multiple certainly.  How much?  Hmmmm...math time...

 

[Panelfan1]

1 hour ago, williamhlawson said:

Older splashes are a lot less common, period.  New splashes are drawn entirely too often due to THIS market in and of itself (imho).  Image certainly upped the splashy page count, making more per book available, and the artists pay higher I assume in the long run due to the increased value attributed to the splashes.  How many covers/splashes/interior pages were produced for ALL comics in say June 1974 as opposed to say June 1994 ... a fraction I am certain.  This coupled with multiple modern splashes per issue as opposed to maybe one or two in older books.  Just seems obvious due to supply and demand to me.  The cover 'variants' are still covers, and if one is by Bianchi/Ross and the other is by 'x' then there isn't really a question as to a formula.  Add that to some items being lost over time, destroyed, etc....and the new splashes seems like it should carry a smaller multiple certainly.  How much?  Hmmmm...math time...

 

Interesting, that while I agree new splashes should/could be less valuable than older ones - since new covers are also worth less- doesnt that put pressure on quality modern splashes to be worth more in a multiples way?

[Dick O.]

Here's my  on a rough valuation formula, based on recent Perez Infinity Gauntlet sales:

• 2 x strong panel page = 1 x decent splash page
• 4 x decent splash page = 1 x mediocre cover

Full article here:

https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/06/02/market-report-may-2017-heritage-signature-auction-part-2/

 

[Dick O.]

16 hours ago, Mr. Machismo said:

Look at the DPS of the Supes/Batman fight from Hush VS the 617 cover. Went for the exact same price, down to the dollar. That said, the BvS image was a whole lot better IMO.

For reference, here they are:

https://comicbookinvest.com/2017/01/13/artist-spotlight-jim-lee/

 

[Carlo M]

I keep pretty good track of prices (at least related to Marvel OA) and I can say that evidence points to the cover -to - splash multiples of SA and BA OA tends to be higher than modern OA (8-10x compared to 5-7x).  This of course comparing similar quality covers to splashes.  The reasons are IMHO twofold: 1) contemporary covers tend to be less and less related to the storylines, so they are less identifiable and carry less emotional carry; and 2) due to digital production, a strong contemporary splash can have a content aesthetically very comparable to a contemporary cover.  The differences between the two when looked at in OA format are definitely less stark today than they werein SA and BA.  My 2 cents...

Carlo 

[PhilipB2k17]

12 minutes ago, Carlo M said:

I keep pretty good track of prices (at least related to Marvel OA) and I can say that evidence points to the cover -to - splash multiples of SA and BA OA tends to be higher than modern OA (8-10x compared to 5-7x).  This of course comparing similar quality covers to splashes.  The reasons are IMHO twofold: 1) contemporary covers tend to be less and less related to the storylines, so they are less identifiable and carry less emotional carry; and 2) due to digital production, a strong contemporary splash can have a content aesthetically very comparable to a contemporary cover.  The differences between the two when looked at in OA format are definitely less stark today than they werein SA and BA.  My 2 cents...

Carlo 

Case in point, is this a cover or a splash? If you don't read this comic (Teen Titans rebirth) you wouldn't know, or unless you see the top descriptor  

 

 

Edited August 23, 2017 by PhilipB2k17

[williamhlawson]

20 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Case in point, is this a cover or a splash? If you don't read this comic (Teen Titans rebirth) you wouldn't know, or unless you see the top descriptor  

 

 

I would automatically think splash due to the top 1/3 being so art crammed...but...with the digital stuff nowadays, I wouldn't be able to know...age shows up in the funniest of ways.