The IH181 of 2040 3 3

[jcjames]

2 hours ago, grebal said:

I'm not particularly current on the past 2 decades, though I am aware of the popularity of e.g. Deadpool and Harley Quinn.  Even have a copy of NM98.

What stands out to me, is most of the characters who became 'big' following the flagship superhero characters of the 60s have been anti-heroes.  Wolverine, and Punisher stand out, possibly because the tendency for a pendulum swing -- from goody-goody Superman, and boy scout Captain America, to tame bad goodguys like Batman or DareDevil in the 70s, to genuine bad guys like Wolvie and Punisher who became very popular a decade later.

The popularity of Ledger's Joker (2008) as a psychopath instead of the tamer Jack Nicholson version (1989) was another example.

Not sure if pendulum would ever swing back on this and lead to resurgence of popular new character from the true-blue side of the hero spectrum.  Was Spidergwen or Gwenpool ever popular, or just a short-lived fad?  So my guess is on the anti-heros mentioned at top as the 'easy' guesses.

Thought provoking post.

One might say that the culturally-popular movies might have been initial drivers of what types of characters would become comicbook super-star keys, like the clear-cut "good-guy" characters of John Wayne, Spencer Tracy, Gary Cooper, were the cultural phenomenons of the 40's and 50's, and were mirrored by ensuing "collectibility" of the good-guy heros like Cap and Sup, (even Bat wasn't really an anti-hero early on).

And then atomic-age/sci-fi cultural fixation in movies of that began in the 50's also began to drive or lead comicbook-collectibilty interests into the sci-fi realm like the radioactive origins of FF, hulk & spidey as opposed to the not-so-atomic origins of Thor or Daredevil who aren't quite as big ($$-for-1st-appearance-wise) as their sci-fi-originating peers released nearly the same years.

Then it was in the late 1960's with Clint Eastwood ("man with no name") and Cool Hand Luke and early 1970's (Dirty Harry, Deathwish, Taxi Driver etc.) that began to popularize the cultural concepts of the "anti-hero" which became a much more widespread phenomenon in the 1980's and 90's, pulling the earliest comicbook anti-heroes (Wolverine & Punisher) into super-stardom status of collectibility.

So what is the current cultural "direction" of entertainment headed? Well, is it a more vulgar, violent and gratuitous culture? A more sexualized culture? A more psycho-disturbed culture? A more anti-social, anti-culture culture? Maybe all of the above?

Look at where our culture is headed and what comicbook characters are poised to become the icons of that culture.

 

 

[Aweandlorder]

45 minutes ago, CKinTO said:

Of course these books are way above $70-80 raw today...that barometer is a tough one given how quickly books appreciate (just look at Totally Awesome Hulk 22 going for $50+ raw already speculating that Weapon H may have staying power).

 

 

I do agree with this statement, but I still think that there are a few books that would fit the bill, pun intended. 

I picked up the 80s as a comparable era to today, as it was right about now that 30 years ago (1986-87) comic book speculating has become a thing. 1986-7 were the first years that I heard people talk about certain books that they bought just to speculate on. We know what those books were, most of them were independent books (because of the perceived print run) and some hot new "mature" DC titles (because of Dark Knight). Very few were investing or speculating in Marvel because they simply havent had such tremendous appreciation in value overnight like the indies and Dark Knight did. Not to say that they werent selling of course, but they just werent speculated on as much. That all changed when Spider-Man 1/X-Men 1 came out.. Actually maybe even Ghost Rider 1.

But just think about it for a moment. No one ever speculated on IH181 in the 80s like they did with other trending books. It was a key book then, kinda like... I dont know... A Star Wars 1 is today (ta-daaa, here's a 70.00 dollar book for ya). Wolverine was very popular then, but not as popular as Star Wars is today. IH181 was indeed a key back then, but not what it is now. I remember going to SDCC in 1991 and seeing IH181s for 40-50$ and spending the same amount of money on a bagged signed McFarlane Spidey #1 thinking it was a no brainer! 

Thats kinda what Im looking to achieve with this thread, find a book that is already an established key now, but not being speculated on.

People mentioned Spider-gwen, and I think thats a good example. The only thing is that Spider-Gwen (as much as I love that spec) isnt an established key as IH181 was in the 80s. Maybe we need to dig deeper

[1Cool]

I don't think anything that is $70 today will be a $1,000 book in 25 years.  Hate to be negative but I'd bet more on some $1,000 books being $70 then the other way around.

[manetteska]

16 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

OK lets take it up a notch

 

 

Where are you finding this for <= $70 in NM?

[cortown71]

If the movie theme vs cultural influence takes hold in the future. Theres one series that has all that and broke that ground in comics pretty early. Faust. Pretty much has everything jc mentioned. It was popular enough for awhile that it spawned a flop movie.i love Faust and vigils art.the movie,every once in a while I've got to watch it.an update with a real budget and the real ending might be a fun future flick.

[Aweandlorder]

1 hour ago, manetteska said:

Where are you finding this for <= $70 in NM?

Yup I didnt even realize it has picked up steam. I got my copy at Koch's Warehouse in 2013 for 75.00.

On a side note, if Grendel does end up getting picked up as a movie and gets his swag back on, this could be a much pricier book than IH181 because of supply of course

[Aweandlorder]

42 minutes ago, cortown71 said:

If the movie theme vs cultural influence takes hold in the future. Theres one series that has all that and broke that ground in comics pretty early. Faust. Pretty much has everything jc mentioned. It was popular enough for awhile that it spawned a flop movie.i love Faust and vigils art.the movie,every once in a while I've got to watch it.an update with a real budget and the real ending might be a fun future flick.

I didnt even know Faust had a movie. And yes, Faust was very much the badass version of wolverine in the late 80s, but he was slowly dying along the rest of the B&W indies as soon as Image took the helm

[Aweandlorder]

A good established key of a good/bad type of character would probably be Omegamen #3

Probably not as overprinted as IH181, but comparable nonetheless... 

... Oh, and a 1st appearance at that...

... With him on the cover...

... Oh and its red too

[ADAMANTIUM]

20 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

A good established key of a good/bad type of character would probably be Omegamen #3

Probably not as overprinted as IH181, but comparable nonetheless... 

... Oh, and a 1st appearance at that...

... With him on the cover...

... Oh and its red too

I'd be curious to know the 9.8 numbers on that though, I've wanted one=it just never seemed urgent to get, but there are a lot of 9.8's seems like 

[MustEatBrains]

I personally like the books in the Avengers/Defenders war I think you can snag most in NM today for between 70-100.  My fav would be Defenders 10, which has a Hulk vs Thor battle.  I know there was minimal to no movement in OSPG this year but that's what I'm going with.   See you in 2040. (When I'm 66, hopefully)

[Aweandlorder]

12 minutes ago, ADAMANTIUM said:

I've wanted one=it just never seemed urgent to get

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking about IH181 in the 80s

[Aweandlorder]

23 minutes ago, MustEatBrains said:

See you in 2040. (When I'm 66, hopefully)

 

[Aweandlorder]

Sh*t Im just thinking about it and... Damn DC!! Come on guys, how can you not give this guy the push that he needs to cross over from a B lister??!

Lobo is truly the badass that Wolvie always was, prolly badder. The only thing he needs is just a great actor that can channel that badassesnes to the big screen. Thats it. Youre done.

Is that too much to ask for???

 

 

[Lazyboy]

3 hours ago, 1Cool said:

I don't think anything that is $70 today will be a $1,000 book in 25 years.  Hate to be negative but I'd bet more on some $1,000 books being $70 then the other way around.

That's basically what I was going to say, except that it was going to be "look for the current $7000 (not $70.00) books to figure out what will be $1000 in 2040."

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

I picked up the 80s as a comparable era to today, as it was right about now that 30 years ago (1986-87) comic book speculating has become a thing. 1986-7 were the first years that I heard people talk about certain books that they bought just to speculate on.

You mean on new books that weren't first issues? Because people were heavily speculating on first issues well before that.

3 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

We know what those books were, most of them were independent books (because of the perceived print run) and some hot new "mature" DC titles (because of Dark Knight). Very few were investing or speculating in Marvel because they simply havent had such tremendous appreciation in value overnight like the indies and Dark Knight did. Not to say that they werent selling of course, but they just werent speculated on as much. That all changed when Spider-Man 1/X-Men 1 came out.. Actually maybe even Ghost Rider 1.

But just think about it for a moment. No one ever speculated on IH181 in the 80s like they did with other trending books.

It wouldn't have been that easy to speculate on IH181 in the 80s. It was super easy to speculate on new issues.

[01TheDude]

starting to think DD 168 is heading that way.

[marmat]

Sam Diego Comic Con 2 and Next Men 21 could explode if the new movie is a hit. 

It will be more like a horror movie, and horror is very popular right now, leaded by WD

[ComicConnoisseur]

19 hours ago, jcjames said:

Thought provoking post.

One might say that the culturally-popular movies might have been initial drivers of what types of characters would become comicbook super-star keys, like the clear-cut "good-guy" characters of John Wayne, Spencer Tracy, Gary Cooper, were the cultural phenomenons of the 40's and 50's, and were mirrored by ensuing "collectibility" of the good-guy heros like Cap and Sup, (even Bat wasn't really an anti-hero early on).

And then atomic-age/sci-fi cultural fixation in movies of that began in the 50's also began to drive or lead comicbook-collectibilty interests into the sci-fi realm like the radioactive origins of FF, hulk & spidey as opposed to the not-so-atomic origins of Thor or Daredevil who aren't quite as big ($$-for-1st-appearance-wise) as their sci-fi-originating peers released nearly the same years.

Then it was in the late 1960's with Clint Eastwood ("man with no name") and Cool Hand Luke and early 1970's (Dirty Harry, Deathwish, Taxi Driver etc.) that began to popularize the cultural concepts of the "anti-hero" which became a much more widespread phenomenon in the 1980's and 90's, pulling the earliest comicbook anti-heroes (Wolverine & Punisher) into super-stardom status of collectibility.

So what is the current cultural "direction" of entertainment headed? Well, is it a more vulgar, violent and gratuitous culture? A more sexualized culture? A more psycho-disturbed culture? A more anti-social, anti-culture culture? Maybe all of the above?

Look at where our culture is headed and what comicbook characters are poised to become the icons of that culture.

 

 

Very well thought out post.

With the growing MARVEL movie China market this first appearance could be huge!

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[ComicConnoisseur]

14 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

It wouldn't have been that easy to speculate on IH181 in the 80s. It was super easy to speculate on new issues.

Agreed.It was an easy model back than. No variants and didn't have to get your new modern book to a CGC 9.8 level for it to be worth something.

All you had to do was order the 50 cent to $1 cover priced comic book at what 30 to 50 percent off from distributer than flip it for at least cover or higher for instant profit. Really that model made some people rich back in the 80s and early 90s.

Too bad that model ended as now it is much more complicated and harder to turn a decent profit. Also much more competition now with social media gurus and Ebay sellers. Just about any comic book can be had with a click compared to back then when you had to hunt for them.

 

 

[ComicConnoisseur]

14 hours ago, Aweandlorder said:

Lobo is truly the badass that Wolvie always was, prolly badder. The only thing he needs is just a great actor that can channel that badassesnes to the big screen. Thats it. Youre done.

Is that too much to ask for???

I would say Lobo and Deathstroke are the Wolverine and Punisher of the DC Universe, and both first appearances are undervalued.

Lobo is like one of the coolest characters that DC ever came up with.  As soon as they get the right actor to play him like you said than Omega Men #3 will skyrocket!

Edited September 2, 2017 by ComicConnoisseur

[darkstar]

10 minutes ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I would say Lobo and Deathstroke are the Wolverine and Punisher of the DC Universe, and both first appearances are undervalued.

 

Except the DC side of that equation has seen nowhere near the same amount of exposure both within the comic books themselves and in the world outside of them. 

 

The answer to the question posed in the original post is Edge of Spider-verse 2. Things get squirrelly with first appearances of new characters these days because of all the variants and because everything is slabbed for preservation even before a book can be recognized as a key by the market.