Batman #1 CGC 9.2 slight(p) on eBay...

[themegoguy]

I think it goes towards the integrity of the seller. Its a little hard to swallow a $65,000 purchase if the seller was making up a bunch of stories about its origin. If theres nothing fishy about it, why make up the story (and it sounds like it was completely fabricated and he refused to back anything up)?

[FFB]

But here is another example where a seller would have gotten a higher price but did not b/c, in part, due to the potential stigma of pressing.

 

Kind circular reasoning there, don't you think?

[FFB]

Perhaps your insistence on this was simply part of your pressing disclosure crusade?

 

You THINK?

[FFB]

Smart move, Mark, although I'm curious as to why it would matter to you whether or not the book has been pressed or not since it is already designated as a restored copy. Would it have really affected the amount you'd be willing to pay (assuming non-shady circumstances)? Since it already has a spine split sealed and the cover reinforced, I would think that most people wouldn't care if the book were professionally pressed along with those services. I know I wouldn't. I'd actually be kind of surprised if it wasn't pressed when the other work was done.

 

Perhaps your insistence on this was simply part of your pressing disclosure crusade?

 

My concern was actually not that it was pressed, particulary as you note given that the book was already clearly restored, but one of trust. At the end of the day I didn't trust the transaction. The possibility of pressing was just one aspect. I asked specific questions and requested specific assurances. Yet the responses were somewhat equivocal and less than assuring.

 

The seller claimed his father bought the book in 1940 and was the individual responsible for restoring it, as well as that it was not pressed.

 

Yet he hesitated to (a) provide me a letter from himself and his father attesting to the statement that he was the original owner and (b) refund my money if the OO story was not true and I discovered the book was pressed. Given his prior writings and statements to me, I find that very disconcerting.

 

Remember, in my day job I deal with spies on a daily basis. These are people who are trained to lie. As a result I learn to sense certain characteristics and traits that are potentially red flags in deals.

 

This wasn't exactly the toughest lie to spot though, was it? Andy (Goldust) called bulll on it the minute he read the "My father bought this off the newsstand" line. And Filter identified this book as likely being the one he sold last year, and you had a discussion with him about this in this thread before you cracked the $65,000 reserve.

 

If a seller is deceptive on one thing, who is to say they are not deceptive on other more important aspects (and I am not saying this particular seller was deceptive, I am speaking generically). Furthermore, I don't buy the CGC label. I buy the book. Simply b/c the label says or doesn't say something is not enough for me. If it were a $70 book, I could care less. But for $65k, I want to feel comfortable.

 

If that's the case, then why would you care whether his father bought the book off the newsstand or not? It's the same book regardless, right? Who cares where he got the book, as long as it wasn't stolen? As for the seller being bogus, you would have flown to pick up the book anyway, wouldn't you? Or had someone else pick it up in person? And why did you crack the reserve when you already knew that the story about his father was probably BS and you also knew from Filter that this is probably the same book that used to be a 9.0?

 

[nearmint]

I think that late bidder with no big item purchases in the past would have scared me off, so I think Mark did the right thing. But, the other reasons stated wouldn't have stopped me from bidding. FFB is right, it's the same book regardless.

[Harvey Dude]

I think that late bidder with no big item purchases in the past would have scared me off, so I think Mark did the right thing. But, the other reasons stated wouldn't have stopped me from bidding. FFB is right, it's the same book regardless.

 

Same book or not, I certainly would not want to enrich an individual who resorts to deception to sell a book so if the background story were proven false, I would have stayed clear of the auction. I have to add that I can't ascertain whether the story is true or false. Personally, I believe Mark did the right thing by not pursuing this particular issue even if the story could not be vetted. Primarily for the reason's that Mark stated.

[nearmint]

Mark certainly did the right thing, as no one should make a purchase if they're not comfortable with the transaction.

 

Harvey, I'm just a little more selfish than you are when it comes to buying books. I don't care if the seller says he's from Mars and the comic came from Venus. If he's delivering the book advertised, I couldn't care less about his history. I just want the book.

[FFB]

I think that late bidder with no big item purchases in the past would have scared me off, so I think Mark did the right thing. But, the other reasons stated wouldn't have stopped me from bidding. FFB is right, it's the same book regardless.

 

Same book or not, I certainly would not want to enrich an individual who resorts to deception to sell a book so if the background story were proven false, I would have stayed clear of the auction. I have to add that I can't ascertain whether the story is true or false. Personally, I believe Mark did the right thing by not pursuing this particular issue even if the story could not be vetted. Primarily for the reason's that Mark stated.

 

Why did he bid in the first place then, when he already knew the guy was probably lying about the story regarding his father?

 

As for the pressing issue, WHO CARES? The book is a restored book and is being sold as a restored book. If the seller disclosed in the auction that the book was "also pressed," it would have no impact whatsoever on the sales price unless Mark refused to bid on it simply to make a point.

[Harvey Dude]

Why did he bid in the first place then, when he already knew the guy was probably lying about the story regarding his father?

 

Mark, Care to elaborate?

 

As for the pressing issue, WHO CARES? The book is a restored book and is being sold as a restored book. If the seller disclosed in the auction that the book was "also pressed," it would have no impact whatsoever on the sales price unless Mark refused to bid on it simply to make a point.

 

I don’t advocate pressing because I like my books pure but I would think there is more value in a slightly restored book that has not been pressed. Could the “hidden value” of this 9.2 be pressed into a 9.4 if this procedure were not previously performed? If the book started as a 9.0 and is now a 9.2 from pressing, I don’t think you can squeeze out a higher grade.

[FFB]

Why did he bid in the first place then, when he already knew the guy was probably lying about the story regarding his father?

 

Mark, Care to elaborate?

 

As for the pressing issue, WHO CARES? The book is a restored book and is being sold as a restored book. If the seller disclosed in the auction that the book was "also pressed," it would have no impact whatsoever on the sales price unless Mark refused to bid on it simply to make a point.

 

I don’t advocate pressing because I like my books pure but I would think there is more value in a slightly restored book that has not been pressed. Could the “hidden value” of this 9.2 be pressed into a 9.4 if this procedure were not previously performed? If the book started as a 9.0 and is now a 9.2 from pressing, I don’t think you can squeeze out a higher grade.

 

Do you see a defect on this book that would be eliminated or minimized through pressing? I don't.

[Harvey Dude]

Do you see a defect on this book that would be eliminated or minimized through pressing? I don't.

 

Scans never provide me the whole picture and I don't have the grading notes to determine why the book never received a higher grade. It would only be speculation on my part whether this book could be improved.

[FFB]

Do you see a defect on this book that would be eliminated or minimized through pressing? I don't.

 

Scans never provide me the whole picture and I don't have the grading notes to determine why the book never received a higher grade. It would only be speculation on my part whether this book could be improved.

 

True enough. My best guess though is that the wear to the upper spine and lower edge and some non-color-breaking spine stress (which non-disassembly pressing doesn't really cure) are the primary culprits.

[batman_fan]

My personal opinion (coupled with $4 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuck's) is that Mark was smart in passing on the book. If anyone out there has seen a Golden-Age book that has been pressed would understand why it is best to AVOID them. Why was the seller unwilling to provide documentation? He is under no obligation to do so, so Mark is not obligated to up his bid. Being a big fan of Batman, I would have loved to have a book like this, but not at anything even close to $65k, too many unknowns.

[Silver Surfer]

I would tend to agree with you on passing on this book mainly due to the lack of decent dialouge with the seller. As far as having a restored book that will most likely remain in its current slabb is the fact it may have been professionally pressed really going to make any difference at the end of the day?

[esquirecomics]

Actually, my concern that the book might have been pressed did not enter the picture until very late in the game. I asked the seller at the outset of the auction whether the book had been pressed, and the response was no. I took him at his word. At the time I placed the initial over reserve bid I was still not concerned about (nor suspected) the fact that perhaps the book was pressed, particularly since it was already restored.

 

However, after having further discussions with Filter, the seller and other knowledgable collectors, I started to become suspicious about the integrity of the auction and hold bad feelings towards the transaction. Of course, had I remained the high bidder I would have honored the bid and taken possession of the book. But I was happy to see that I was outbid. As I stated, I was having conversations with the seller up to literally the last second of the auction and I was not at all comfortable with his responses. I hold absolutely no regrets.

 

But if anyone (ahem, FFB ) thinks a conspiracy was underfoot and I used this auction to make a point about pressing, let me think how to politically say this - YOU ARE NUTS!!!!! If the book had been $65, maybe, just maybe, I would have even thought about doing something like that. But for $65k, I don't think so.

 

Let me state one thing about why pressing, to me, however is relevant to the purchase of this book. There are still a good number of mid-grade Batman #1s out there, books that are in the 6.5 - 7.5 range. With proper pressing, and depending upon the book, some of these may end up being 8.5 - 9.2 copies - "unrestored".

 

If that happens, the value of the restored 9.2 probably would go down, or at least the demand for it. Why bother buying a restored (pressed) 9.2 copy when one can buy an "unrestored" 9.0 or 9.2 copy? If the 9.2 copy were not pressed, then at least something could be said about it to try and persuade the potential buyer that it is preferable to own an unpressed 9.2 restored than a pressed 9.0 (that two weeks before had been a 7.5) unrestored. Again, maybe to some it doesn't matter, but to others it does and when you are speaking about a six figure book, the loss of perhaps one buyer may result in the lose of a sale altogether.

 

BTW, the seller of the book has already told people he would sell it to them for a higher amount than the winning bid leading me even more to believe the last bid is highly suspect.

[nearmint]

BTW, the seller of the book has already told people he would sell it to them for a higher amount than the winning bid leading me even more to believe the last bid is highly suspect.

 

What a slimeball.

[batman_fan]

Hi Mark,

 

Thanks for your reply. For myself, I have been on the receiving end of a few pressed books, more recent, a copy of Green Hornet 1, 8.5. That book had been pressed so hard it looked like the spine was ready to explode. The problem is, you couldn't tell from the scan of the front and back cover, but it was apparent once I got the book. I also have a Batman 55 which looks pretty suspect. My real concern with these pressed books is what happens long term to them. As more people become familiar with pressing, will they start to avoid pressed books? Seems like a big gamble to take for that kind of money.

[Thegoldenage]

Has it been confirmed that it was Filter's book? Just curious.

[The Less Blob]

"That book had been pressed so hard it looked like the spine was ready to explode."

 

If you can actually tell the book was pressed, then shouldn't the book be considered restored?

 

I thought it was just the stealth invisible pressing that doesn't upset CGC?

 

Personally, if we have a "if a tree falls in the forest..." pressing situation, I don't think it needs to be called restored. but if you can tell it's been pressed, that's something else.

[clarkkentdds]

I too have held off bidding on some high grade GA books for suspicion of pressing. (Especially books that were graded recently....Since pressing is a phenomenon that is rather recent in the big picture!) Actually, I feel more confident bidding on books that have the old CGC label.