Tonfulle-84 Stan Lee forgeries on eBay 5 5

[JollyComics]

So far, four suckers won for the fake signatures and craps. 10-time sucker, 2-time sucker and two suckers. I hope they realized before it's too late.

[James J Johnson]

13 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

So far, four suckers won for the fake signatures and craps. 10-time sucker, 2-time sucker and two suckers. I hope they realized before it's too late.

He's actually auctioned about 100 Stan Lee signature bargain box dreck that I've counted, maybe more! He's been putting them up two or three per day, three day auctions for the 2 months or so I've been noting them since I spotted them. The feedback is not indicative of just how many he's auctioned, some not even getting the opening bid of .99, some selling for as little as $10 (for a $100 autograph), and others as high as $60s or so. His feedback is a good indication for the argument that most buyers just can't be bothered leaving feedback, the transaction ends when the parcel arrives, because based on the number of Lee's he's offered and seemingly sold (complete auctions for between $10 and $65 or so, typically ending at about $30), he should have dozens more feedbacks for the Lee forged pieces, that is, unless Stan Lee's people or law enforcement are the ones winning and paying for the majority of them for pending criminal prosecution, or he's shilling and winning most of them himself.

[JollyComics]

7 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

He's actually auctioned about 100 Stan Lee signature bargain box dreck that I've counted, maybe more! He's been putting them up two or three per day, three day auctions for the 2 months or so I've been noting them since I spotted them. The feedback is not indicative of just how many he's auctioned, some not even getting the opening bid of .99, some selling for as little as $10 (for a $100 autograph), and others as high as $60s or so. His feedback is a good indication for the argument that most buyers just can't be bothered leaving feedback, the transaction ends when the parcel arrives, because based on the number of Lee's he's offered and seemingly sold (complete auctions for between $10 and $65 or so, typically ending at about $30), he should have dozens more feedbacks for the Lee forged pieces, that is, unless Stan Lee's people or law enforcement are the ones winning and paying for the majority of them for pending criminal prosecution, or he's shilling and winning most of them himself.

eBay will suspend the seller indefinitely if there are shills involving. This is too obvious. Stan Lee's signatures are not cheap. Last time, I had him signed my ASM #1 for $100 three years ago.  The seller might need a mortgage to pay his signature fees. No fricking way!

[James J Johnson]

37 minutes ago, JollyComics said:

eBay will suspend the seller indefinitely if there are shills involving. This is too obvious. Stan Lee's signatures are not cheap. Last time, I had him signed my ASM #1 for $100 three years ago.  The seller might need a mortgage to pay his signature fees. No fricking way!

Nah. If ebay detects shilling, they won't suspend. They'll give him a warning, you know, like a written warning instead of a traffic ticket, really meaningless. Then, if they catch him shilling again within a certain amount of time after that meaningless warning, they'll end his auctions, suspend his account for a week, and before he can sell again, he'll complete an online tutorial and when he enters on the last page, his account will be once again be fully operational. Anybody who does wrong on ebay, buyer or seller, gets three chances to get their act together, unless it's a case where a seller simply stops sending out merchandise that's been paid for. It's all in the guidelines. Believe it or not, I've read all their yatta, yatta, yatta, that most just page right over when they sign the yearly user agreement.

Of course, it goes without saying, that Ebay will not eventually be this seller's undoing. First off, shill bidding in any state other than Texas, is a crime. Second, interstate trafficking of forged items is a crime. When push finally comes to shove, and it usually does eventually if you dig a hole and keep digging, it'll be his state or Federal authorities that come knocking, not ebay.

Edited January 20, 2018 by James J Johnson

[ADAMANTIUM]

15 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

First off, shill bidding in any state other than Texas, is a crime. Second, interstate trafficking of forged items is a crime. When push finally comes to shove, and it usually does eventually if you dig a hole and keep digging, it'll be his state or Federal authorities that come knocking, not ebay.

Dang, Texas?  c'mon now y'all get it together 

[Semicentennial]

It seems his signature has changed a lot through the years and looking at the examples on the seller's page the books are very similar to some of his authenticated signature.  Just curious, but how you can tell these are fakes. 

 

[James J Johnson]

1 hour ago, Fiddy said:

It seems his signature has changed a lot through the years and looking at the examples on the seller's page the books are very similar to some of his authenticated signature.  Just curious, but how you can tell these are fakes. 

 

They don't match any of his very slight stylistic changes over the past 50 years. Some elements of Stan's signature have remained the same for many decades and this seller's forgeries don't have any of the constants. The seller has an endless supply on bargain box dreck, in this way, if he blows one (well, he's blowing them all, but if his perception is that he didn't get it right), he can throw it into the trash at a very insignificant loss. He's able to procure them for such a low price that he can sell them at his $10 to $60 going rate, his typical Lee forged signature ending at $30.

No COA. No mention of where the signature is obtained. The whole operation stinks to high heaven and the autos are horrible forgeries. Anyone who has gotten Stan's signature in person, multiple times over the years knows it. He's forging these in a style closer to Stan's 1980s style, but he's doing on comics newer than that, an anachronistic impossibility.

[1950's war comics]

1 hour ago, Fiddy said:

It seems his signature has changed a lot through the years and looking at the examples on the seller's page the books are very similar to some of his authenticated signature.  Just curious, but how you can tell these are fakes. 

 

It;s so obvious that its laughable......

[the blob]

I don't understand wby someone, with some practice, couldn't do a better job. As for cheap comics, was stan charging 30 years ago? I know romita is in a lower league, but i remember 23 years ago his line at phily wizard being one deep and the guy in front of me had him signing like 50 mid grade dollar box spideys.

[Semicentennial]

1 hour ago, 1950's war comics said:

It;s so obvious that its laughable......

For someone who doesn't know the difference it isn't.  So which ones from the one below are fakes?

[1950's war comics]

on the cover of a comic none of those are legit if they have not been witnessed..if they have not been witnessed it is just a name scribbled on the cover

i don't know if you are defending the person selling these comics or not , or just trolling....

 just take a look at the signature on the Cap America comic on page two of this thread ...laughable....

its called LOGIC,,,, i  go by the book thats been signed,.. pure dollar box drek....astronomically dubious that the same person would have 100's of signed dollar box drek books 

baseball card were famous for this same type activity in the late 80's with guys at shows having multiples of entire signed team sets of every team that they said they got  from the players at airports

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by 1950's war comics

[James J Johnson]

11 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

on the cover of a comic none of those are legit if they have not been witnessed..if they have not been witnessed it is just a name scribbled on the cover

i don't know if you are defending the person selling these comics or not , or just trolling....

 just take a look at the signature on the Cap America comic on page two of this thread ...laughable....

its called LOGIC,,,, i  go by the book thats been signed,.. pure dollar box drek....astronomically dubious that the same person would have 100's of signed dollar box drek books 

baseball card were famous for this same type activity in the late 80's with guys at shows having multiples of entire signed team sets of every team that they said they got  from the players at airports

 

Today's equivalent of those multiple signed team sets are full cast signed movie posters. 95% of them on Ebay are NG.

[Semicentennial]

3 minutes ago, 1950's war comics said:

on the cover of a comic none of those are legit if they have not been witnessed..if they have not been witnessed it is just a name scribbled on the cover

i don't know if you are defending the person selling these comics or not , or just trolling....

 just take a look at the signature on the Cap America comic on page two of this thread ...laughable....

its called LOGIC,,,, i  go by the book thats been signed,.. pure dollar box drek....astronomically dubious that the same person would have 100's of signed dollar box drek books 

baseball card were famous for this same type activity in the late 80's with guys at shows having multiples of entire signed team sets of every team that they said they got  from the players at airports

 

Not trolling at all nor am I defending the seller.   I'm not questioning the choice of books that were "signed", but how it's determined the autographs are fake.  

[Semicentennial]

On 12/30/2017 at 2:58 PM, 1950's war comics said:

you are right in they look nothing like Stan's legit signature......

So of the three signatures I posted, which one is his signature? 

[James J Johnson]

43 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

For someone who doesn't know the difference it isn't.  So which ones from the one below are fakes?

I would put together a study of exactly how Stan's signature has progressed from the 70s to present. I was just about to start doing that as I have authentic Stan Lee signatures from just about every year for the last 50 years, and if I don't own one myself, I have accurate exemplars to fill in the years I don't own. I was going to do that, in fact, I started to, and then I realized, "Wait a minute". Let the forgers do their own R&D, I'm not going to provide a Stan Lee forger's guide and tutorial for them to aid them in their fraud. Let them make the obvious chronological errors that readily identify forgeries.

 

As much as my doing so will help others identify Lee forgeries, it will also assist the forgers. Suffice it to say that the one in the middle is a Tonfulle-84 forgery, I have his handwriting clocked.

Edited January 21, 2018 by James J Johnson

[Semicentennial]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

I would put together a study of exactly how Stan's signature has progressed from the 70s to present. I was just about to start doing that as I have authentic Stan Lee signatures from just about every year for the last 50 years, and if I don't own one myself, I have accurate exemplars to fill in the years I don't own. I was going to do that, in fact, I started to, and then I realized, "Wait a minute". Let the forgers do their own R&D, I'm not going to provide a Stan Lee forger's guide and tutorial for them to aid them in their fraud. Let them make the obvious chronological errors that readily identify forgeries.

Books with his signature are on line so it's not difficult to find them.   

[James J Johnson]

6 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

Books with his signature are on line so it's not difficult to find them.   

Flawed logic. Not just Lee, but a model for any signature found online may be a forgery. I've seen more examples of this than I can count, where a forger copied someone's signature from a forgery. What are you going to base Lee's on? CGC signature series authenticated examples? How long has he been signing these? Like the first example you posted, which is authentic? What about pre-signature series Lee exemplars?

Edited January 21, 2018 by James J Johnson
typo

[Semicentennial]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Flawed logic. No just Lee, but a model for any signature found online may be a forgery. I've seen more examples of this than I can count, where a forger copied someone's signature from a forgery. What are you going to base Lee's on? CGC signature series authenticated examples? How long has he been signing these? Like the first example you posted, which is authentic? What about pre-signature series Lee exemplars?

I'm talking about graded copies.   Of the the examples I posted,  two were graded by CGC that looks very similar to one of the books the seller posted.  Other than the books the seller has signed are obvious red flags for fraud, the signatures on three books are similar.  

[1950's war comics]

16 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

So of the three signatures I posted, which one is his signature? 

i wonder what the least valuable CGC SS Stan Lee signature comic is ?? that might be a good thread to start...

[James J Johnson]

4 minutes ago, Fiddy said:

I'm talking about graded copies.   Of the the examples I posted,  two were graded by CGC that looks very similar to one of the books the seller posted.  Other than the books the seller has signed are obvious red flags for fraud, the signatures on three books are similar.  

The three exemplars posted above may appear similar to some, maybe many, but the differences are glaring enough for anyone with Stan's signature clocked to tell which are his handwriting and which one clearly isn't. The vibe is wrong. The formation is wrong. The one common element os that all of Tonfulle-84's Stan Lee forgeries have the same vibe. His. It's his handwriting, in a failing attempt to forge Stan Lee's.

Edited January 21, 2018 by James J Johnson