Inks by Neal or Giordano? 0

[Catwoman_Fan]

Heritage has been auctioning off all the pages from the Peter Pan / Power records Batman & Joker story. 

This is one of the stories that Neal “George Lucas’d” with new inks, when it was reprinted in the 2000’s.

Heritage attribute this story to Neal and D-ick, but Neal’s illustrated Batman book attributes the art entirely to Neal. 

For you Neal Adams fans, who do you think was handled inking duties on the original art? 

Batman Staked Cards page 17

Edited February 15, 2018 by Catwoman_Fan

[comix4fun]

36 minutes ago, Catwoman_Fan said:

Heritage has been auctioning off all the pages from the Peter Pan / Power records Batman & Joker story. 

This is one of the stories that Neal “George Lucas’d” with new inks, when it was reprinted in the 2000’s.

Heritage attribute this story to Neal and D-ick, but Neal’s illustrated Batman book attributes the art entirely to Neal. 

For you Neal Adams fans, who do you think was handled inking duties on the original art? 

Batman Staked Cards page 17

The face in panel 4, especially the edges of the face and hair look like Neal inks to me, also the flames in the final panel. 

[PhilipB2k17]

Hard to say. But I'm leaning toward Giordano, based upon this Adams/Giordano collaboration.

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[comix4fun]

12 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Hard to say. But I'm leaning toward Giordano, based upon this Adams/Giordano collaboration.

 

Any shots of the OA for this? You lose a lot of the difference between the two inking styles with that 70's technicolor they used. 

[Catwoman_Fan]

1 hour ago, comix4fun said:

The face in panel 4, especially the edges of the face and hair look like Neal inks to me, also the flames in the final panel. 

Thanks
How did they work differently, did Neal have more feathering and lines on the faces?

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, Catwoman_Fan said:

Thanks
How did they work differently, did Neal have more feathering and lines on the faces?

It's kind of hard to describe but, as they went along and especially by 72-74, Neal's inks were "organic" if I had to pick a word to describe it. They were a little looser and more free and it seemed Giordano had a little more tightness to it. But the difference wasn't huge. The two best inkers on Adams' pencils were Neal and Giordano. And it can be from issue to issue or page to page when you compare them side by side as to which one was more effective. 

Most of the pages I've seen with Neal inks seems to feel more loose and organic if I was forced to describe it. 

[PhilipB2k17]

29 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Any shots of the OA for this? You lose a lot of the difference between the two inking styles with that 70's technicolor they used. 

How about this one?

[comix4fun]

2 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

How about this one?

The lines on batman's cowl in 4th panel, the shadows and light inking in the second panel feel like Giordano. A little more restrained, tighter and less free,...but this was also 4-5 years earlier than the piece the OP was asking about. When the piece was created will matter to any analysis of his work as well. 

[PhilipB2k17]

8 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

The lines on batman's cowl in 4th panel, the shadows and light inking in the second panel feel like Giordano. A little more restrained, tighter and less free,...but this was also 4-5 years earlier than the piece the OP was asking about. When the piece was created will matter to any analysis of his work as well. 

The OP art looks kind of rushed, rather than "free."

[comix4fun]

1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The OP art looks kind of rushed, rather than "free."

Could be, but I don't know if I've seen a Giordano inked Adams Batman piece that was that loose...or rushed.

[Catwoman_Fan]

12 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Could be, but I don't know if I've seen a Giordano inked Adams Batman piece that was that loose...or rushed.

That makes sense.  I read somewhere, that the Peter Pan story was rushed, thats why he went back and re-inked several panels when it was published in batman illustrated vol 3. 

I found the description here:

Neal Adams site

 

Quote

Neal, for the Batman Collection books made slight touch ups to some of the old work where he felt it needed it. For book 3 in the series, Neal talked DC into adding a few stories that were rushed though. The stories from the Peter Pan records. A lot of work was needed to get these done. To begin with, we had to get copies of the stories since neither DC or Neal had a complete set since the pages were never returned years ago. Next, because the jobs were rushed for the record albums, there were a bunch of things that Neal needed to re-ink. For these, Neal prepared the art to be inked on 2 ply paper which we can offer to you for sale here on our site.

 

Hm, also the story from the OP was reportedly never returned (stolen?)...

Will Neal agree to sign stolen pages?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Catwoman_Fan

[stinkininkin]

I don't see any of Neal's line work in ANY of the art posted in this thread.  None.  Just my 

[artdealer]

I remember those Batman stories were collaborative jobs. Pretty much anyone in Continuity who could draw worked on them. 

MI

[alxjhnsn]

6 hours ago, comix4fun said:

 The two best inkers on Adams' pencils were Neal and Giordano.  

Hmmm.... I'd put Tom Palmer (see the Kree Skrull war in the Avengers) ahead of G and maybe ahead of Neal himself.

[comix4fun]

3 minutes ago, alxjhnsn said:

Hmmm.... I'd put Tom Palmer (see the Kree Skrull war in the Avengers) ahead of G and maybe ahead of Neal himself.

Personal choice, obviously, but Neal and Giordano on the inking chores on Batman and Detective has always signaled the very peak of Adams' artistic career...for me at least. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by comix4fun

[alxjhnsn]

2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Personal choice, obviously, but Neal and Giordano on the inking chores on Batman and Detective has always signaled the very peak of Adams' artistic career...for me at least. 

The were a great team. My favorite Adams work though is with Palmer on the Avengers. I loved Batman and GL and Deadman (even more), but that Avenger's story was so good. Wish he'd finished it. Big John did a nice job and Palmer helped make it consistent, but it wasn't Adams.

[stinkininkin]

Since we're throwing opinions out about best inker combo's on Neal Adams, I'd give the edge to Adams inking himself, and for me it's not even close (on average).  I think sometimes the art in context with the storylines informs the perception, impact and nostalgia of the relative quality of the art, so I'm just talking about the technical merits of the work.  Even with that caveat, there is a bunch of Adams/Giordano and Adams/Palmer art I'd KILL for.     That said, I think Adams on Adams was more consistently on point.  Adams was not only his own best inker, he was a pretty terrific inker on other guys too like Gil Kane, John Buscema, Rich Buckler, Alan Weiss, etc.  Again, you know what they say about opinions and a**holes, so there ya go.  

Edited February 16, 2018 by stinkininkin

[Catwoman_Fan]

Just now, stinkininkin said:

Since we're throwing opinions out about best inker combo's on Neal Adams, I'd give the edge to Adams inking himself, and for me it's not even close (on average). 

Scott, I appreciate your input. You included the 234 page as not being by Neal. 

Which Batman stories do you attribute to Neal? 

[Catwoman_Fan]

2 hours ago, artdealer said:

I remember those Batman stories were collaborative jobs. Pretty much anyone in Continuity who could draw worked on them. 

MI

Neal shared some of his layouts to the Peter Pan story in Batman Illustrated vol 3. Did continuity typically work off his layouts, when penciling/inking? Did he tend to work on the faces/closeups (like Bob Kane did) 

[stinkininkin]

11 minutes ago, Catwoman_Fan said:

Scott, I appreciate your input. You included the 234 page as not being by Neal. 

Which Batman stories do you attribute to Neal? 

Off the top of my head, all but one of the Brave and Bolds, and Batman 251, the Joker issue.  I believe a handful of pages from Batman 245 have Adams inks as well (from memory).  And just a ton of Batman, Detective and Brave and Bold covers of course.