combiner1 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I don’t know if this was asked, if it was can someone link me up..... which issue is the first appearance of BWL?? Metal #2? Teen Titan #12?? Casting #1??? trying to research and the general population is split between those three. Synder (writer of Metal) says it’s Metal #2. Metal#2 & TT12 came out the same time. TT12 has a lower print run. Casting came before Metal & TT, but it’s only an advertisement (for Metal) I saw CGC graded TT12 (on eBay) but it never mentioned BWL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 In my opinion ads don't count since they're not a part of the story so I'll ignore Casting #1. TT12 and Metal #2 came out on the same day as you mentioned. In my opinion since the events in Metal #2 occur before those of TT12, I feel as though Metal #2 should be the first appearance. The fact that Snyder says it's so adds more evidence as far as i'm concerned. I mean, who is to argue with the guy that thought up the story? That being said, the market appears to have settled on TT12 being the first appearance for some inexplicable reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combiner1 Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 I think the only reason why the market settled on TT12 was because it has a lower print run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ExNihilo Posted March 8, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, combiner1 said: I think the only reason why the market settled on TT12 was because it has a lower print run. If that's the case, it's a truly stupid reason made by the marketplace. Print run has no logical bearing on the derivation of a 1st appearance. It should be driven by A) release date, B) story. I really wish the publishers were responsible for deciding official 1st appearances. It would save a lot of trouble with situations like this and Red Goblin. Comixroc, Eddie Brock, bparent and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Second Blight Posted March 9, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2018 3 hours ago, ExNihilo said: If that's the case, it's a truly stupid reason made by the marketplace. Print run has no logical bearing on the derivation of a 1st appearance. It should be driven by A) release date, B) story. I really wish the publishers were responsible for deciding official 1st appearances. It would save a lot of trouble with situations like this and Red Goblin. Metal #2 is the first appearance. Not a cameo. An actual appearance. Speculators come up with new rules all the time to better suit there financial interest. Print run is NOT a deciding factor of a first appearance. JcomicJ, Comixroc, speedcake and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedcake Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 This ^ How stupid. Inventing first appearance rules for a tiny short term financial gain. Comics are fun! Second Blight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine48 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 1 minute ago, speedcake said: This ^ How stupid. Inventing first appearance rules for a tiny short term financial gain. Comics are fun! Shhhh..you'll decrease the value! Second Blight and speedcake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedcake Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 oh no! one mustn't decrease the value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punksdropdirtysrh Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 TT 12 is first BWL on cover so I think that added to the hype. BishopT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combiner1 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 I was talking to my LCS guy about this. Anyway his reasoning why TT12 has a higher value are : BWL is on the cover and 2-3 other pages inside. While for Metal#2, BWL is only on the last page. Well all the twisted Batman are..... But then, the creator of BWL went on record and says it’s Metal#2.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tec-Tac-Toe Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I'm "going" with DNM 2; now where did I place those copies of TT 12? iJOKER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKinTO Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I've always thought that the view of "let the market decide" gets a bit hazy given the market price is so determined by supply, and TT12 had such a lower print run than DNM2. Usually that view makes sense when there isn't such a discrepancy (eg. IH180/IH181), but here, I feel it's a bit tougher to say TT12 is worth much more, so it's the first app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 13 hours ago, combiner1 said: I was talking to my LCS guy about this. Anyway his reasoning why TT12 has a higher value are : BWL is on the cover and 2-3 other pages inside. While for Metal#2, BWL is only on the last page. Well all the twisted Batman are..... But then, the creator of BWL went on record and says it’s Metal#2.......... Well, if he is on the last page, then it is an appearance, even if it's just a lame teaser. If they came out on the same day, then they're effectively both the (unqualified) first appearance, but the story timing and quality/quantity of the appearances become factors in how people view them. For anybody who still doesn't understand basic economics, the market only determines prices. Prices are based on supply and demand. First appearances are only one factor that affects only one part of that equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonzilla Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lonzilla said: Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12 Where? Edited March 11, 2018 by ygogolak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 11 hours ago, ygogolak said: Where? Front row (L to R): The Batman Who Laughs, The Dawnbreaker, The Murder Machine, The Drowned, The Merciless, The Red Death Middle row: The Devastator Back row: Barbatos iJOKER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedforceKJ Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 being as DNM2 and TT12 came out the same day but the reading order for the story is DNM2 before TT12, that would make DNM2 the winner of first appearance. My question is why hasnt anything been done as far as grading to make a note of this? It's been how many months now and still nothing when the books are graded. iJOKER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) On 3/8/2018 at 4:59 PM, ExNihilo said: In my opinion ads don't count since they're not a part of the story so I'll ignore Casting #1. TT12 and Metal #2 came out on the same day as you mentioned. In my opinion since the events in Metal #2 occur before those of TT12, I feel as though Metal #2 should be the first appearance. The fact that Snyder says it's so adds more evidence as far as i'm concerned. I mean, who is to argue with the guy that thought up the story? That being said, the market appears to have settled on TT12 being the first appearance for some inexplicable reason. This is the same problem that occurs with ASM #252 vs Marvel Team up #141. They literally came out on the same day, and both have the 1st Appearance of Spider-Man's black costume on the cover, and in the book. But, ASM #252 is given primacy by the market, probably because it's the main title. I remember picking up both at the comic shop on the same day, and asking why they were not limiting the number of copies of MTU #141 you could buy, like they were with #252. It was all marketing hype. Edited March 12, 2018 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 21 hours ago, Lonzilla said: Dark Days The Casting #1, last page cameo, it's not an ad. You may wanna go back and read it. 2 months before Metal #2 and Teen Titans #12 So, you're saying Hulk #180 is the true first appearance of Wolverine? I've been making this argument for years but the market has decided otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygogolak Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, ExNihilo said: Front row (L to R): The Batman Who Laughs, The Dawnbreaker, The Murder Machine, The Drowned, The Merciless, The Red Death Middle row: The Devastator Back row: Barbatos You're telling me this guy: is supposed to be this guy: And people wonder why this hasn't been picked up? Edited March 12, 2018 by ygogolak iJOKER 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...