Look at this historic piece of production art!

[Mushroom]

This ebay seller is currently selling some of my books. So there I am looking at his listings and I come across this:

 

Bat #232 colour art!!!

 

all I can say is...............

 

If I wasn't already committed to some other major purchases I would be pulling the trigger on this one.

[Norrin_Radd]

Strike while the iron is hot, indeed.

[jbud73]

The links to his pics are not working

[gaute]

..and they're up again. GORGEOUS.

I'll stick it up here incase it gets lost again..

 

[kiltman]

[jbud73]

That is still basically just the Color Proof for that issue. The exception being that the coloring was done manually verses with a computer as is the case today.

[tth2]

That is still basically just the Color Proof for that issue. The exception being that the coloring was done manually verses with a computer as is the case today.

Yes, Adamstrange seems to have quite a collection of color proofs and has shared them with us in the "Atomic Age" thread in the GA forums. They're pretty cool, kind of a mid-way point between original art and the mass-printed comic.

[Norrin_Radd]

They're pretty cool, kind of a mid-way point between original art and the mass-printed comic.

 

They're semi-impressive.

[Mushroom]

That is still basically just the Color Proof for that issue. The exception being that the coloring was done manually verses with a computer as is the case today.

 

I am sorry to be so adamant about this but .......it is not just the colour proof. The ignorance that seems to persist around production art never seems to amaze me. The facts are that Neal Adams did not choose how the end product would look like. He did (magnificently mind you) the line art.....the colouring was performed by Jack Adler. In reality these pieces are the original water colours of the books. If you know anything about water colour art you will know that all artists will do a line drawing first (i.e. sketching where things should be) and then provide a colour wash to deliver the end product.

 

This is an extremely important water colour. A lot of the ones in the Adler collection are nowhere near as stunning as this. Truly an important piece that is one of a kind.

 

(not aimed at you Jbud....just that these painitings are to me more representative of the finished article than line drawings).

[PovertyRow]

That is still basically just the Color Proof for that issue. The exception being that the coloring was done manually verses with a computer as is the case today.

 

The color proof would be a color key or chromalin or similar proof made form the final negatives that are also used to burn the plates. This seems to be an actual rendering rather than a purely mechanical piece.

[PovertyRow]

This is an extremely important water colour.

 

I was wondering about the media. The firgures sure could be watercolor. The background has a pastels feel to it. But that texture from pastels would come from a rough surface. Interesting thing this is.

[Mushroom]

This is an extremely important water colour.

 

I was wondering about the media. The firgures sure could be watercolor. The background has a pastels feel to it. But that texture from pastels would come from a rough surface. Interesting thing this is.

 

This is Robert Letscher's response when I told him how gob smacked I was.......

 

"Thanks for putting the link to the colour art up on the chatboards; I will be downright sad, shipping that piece out. It really does look so awesome, in person. Much cooler than the pale version they used for the comics. I don't know why they took out so much of the background texture/shading? And I also like how that painting is so uncluttered, without the usual issue number, month, etc."

 

I own quite a few of these water colours POV (mostly BA horror titles) and not one of them uses any other medium than paint or ink. I will check with him though.

[PovertyRow]

I own quite a few of these water colours POV (mostly BA horror titles) and not one of them uses any other medium than paint or ink. I will check with him though.

 

Thanks Mushroom. Such info is always good! When did you start collecting these?

[Aman619]

arent these just color studies on stats or xeroxes of the inked artwork? There might have ben 3 or 4 o fthese until Adler was satisfied. Also, without pulling out a printed cover, unless thi sis a lousy scan, looks to me like the gals at Eastern color used this as a color guide and THEY did the actuall coloring. Analogous to the penciler and inker for the line art. the colorists work is replaced in the production of the actual comoc book by the technicials cutting the color pates for the printing press from his "pencils/water color/guache layouts

 

Unless this was actually photographed for the separations and plates for printing the cover, its only an interesting oddity, IMO, not original art or a "painting."

[Aman619]

having said that, they are cool and an artifact useful bringing the collector closer to the creation of the comic book. Its just that to me, this is little more than one step in the making of a comic and not one of the most significant ones. Adler did nealy every cover didnt he? So its not like he felt any pressure or urgency to really NAIL it!

 

and hasnt Neal gone on record as having colored his own covers? Or was that just the early horror phase where he pushed DC to add hundreds of tints like Marvel already used?

[Mushroom]

arent these just color studies on stats or xeroxes of the inked artwork? There might have ben 3 or 4 o fthese until Adler was satisfied. Also, without pulling out a printed cover, unless thi sis a lousy scan, looks to me like the gals at Eastern color used this as a color guide and THEY did the actuall coloring. Analogous to the penciler and inker for the line art. the colorists work is replaced in the production of the actual comoc book by the technicials cutting the color pates for the printing press from his "pencils/water color/guache layouts

 

Unless this was actually photographed for the separations and plates for printing the cover, its only an interesting oddity, IMO, not original art or a "painting."

 

POV would be the one to explain how the printers use these guides to actually produce the books but from your response I can say that Neal Adams did do some of his own colour work but he much preferred Adler to do it. It is interesting that if you look at some of the earlier examples in Adler's collection that they are little more than quick and dirties. It is around the early 70's that the colour guide was treated like a canvas.

 

I don't know how you can say that these are oddities??? There would be no printing plate prepared if this colour guide wasn't completed. It was Adler who determined how the cover would look. These are genuine paintings and are key to the creation of the book (In my opinion they are better than the line art).

[PovertyRow]

Also, without pulling out a printed cover, unless thi sis a lousy scan, looks to me like the gals at Eastern color used this as a color guide and THEY did the actuall coloring.

 

In my experience here how it works. The four color plates for the press are burned using one negative per plate, those negatives representing the yellow, magenta ("red"), cyan ("blue") and blacks from the art. It is from those negatives that a color proof is pulled. Usually a color-key, which is a four-layer acetate composite, each layer having the yellow, magenta, cyan and black inks. That color-key is what is used to color check a press job. It makes no sense to use an independent piece of art to color proof a job when the negatives have to exist in order to burn the plates. It is the the color proofs made from those negatives that are the reference source.It is those negatives and proofs that ultimately show what the press job is capable of producing.

[jbud73]

arent these just color studies on stats or xeroxes of the inked artwork? There might have ben 3 or 4 o fthese until Adler was satisfied. Also, without pulling out a printed cover, unless thi sis a lousy scan, looks to me like the gals at Eastern color used this as a color guide and THEY did the actuall coloring. Analogous to the penciler and inker for the line art. the colorists work is replaced in the production of the actual comoc book by the technicials cutting the color pates for the printing press from his "pencils/water color/guache layouts

 

Unless this was actually photographed for the separations and plates for printing the cover, its only an interesting oddity, IMO, not original art or a "painting."

 

I am the first to admit that I know very little about the original comic art world. Which is why I buy so little not being tapped into the market I get an understanding of what someone entering the comic market feels like. But in the Comic Market there are at least resources - OS, OSGG etc etc.

 

So I think what Aman is saying is that even though its a nice piece and done by the actual colorist of the issue. Because its was done on a xerox of the line art its really hard to peg down the prominance it should enjoy in the creation process, or how many of them are out there etc. One of the reasons that original line art is so expensive is because its one of a kind.

 

I was actually very interested in this piece, but having consulted some of the people who know more about color guides and proofs or what ever and original art - their opinion was to proceed with caution given the asking price of this piece. Their line of thinking was that at that price point you could get a professional comic artist of some note to do a line recreation to scale.

 

Anyway it is an interesting item nevertheless.

[Aman619]

Anyway it is an interesting item nevertheless.

 

thats what Im saying: its an INTERESTING item. and while it was made with paint, its not exactly a 'painting.' It was painted to be used by the REAL color separators at Eastman Color, who were hired by DC to produce film to be shipped to Sparta to make plates for printing. (maybe not Eastman at that point, but a newer vendor. Same for Sparta in my sequence of events...)

 

If Adlers actual brushstrokes were actually to be reproduced photographically, he would have had to paint on an overlay so that there would be no black lines since they would use Adams/Giordano's actual pencils/inks.

[Aman619]

okay. I went to ebay and got this scan of the actual printed cover. ( I cleaned it up, brighter, since the scan was muddy)..

 

So here's my point of view. Compare this final piece to Adler's comp/painting/layout/sketch etc. The final cover was entirely recreated following Adler's suggested colors, but none of his actual brushstrokes were used in its creation. Adler decided to use the Ras greytone as a green and yellow duotone, but as you see on his comp, all he created was some opaque green/wash over the greytones that were on his xerox/stat canvas he started with. Creating a duotone effect is a photomechanical trick---- it CANNOT be painted (well, it can, any 'look' can painstakingly be recreated by hand... but in this case it WASN'T. In fact comics being as cheaply produced as they were (by DC and Marvel) would never pay someone to PAINT an entire cover back then)

 

And look at everything else Adler painted: Batman, Robin, the gun, its burst.... it was all redone by the separators to look like Adler's comp (he was their client after all.) Even today, there are colorists who do these sketches and send them to the digital colorists who actually render the covers in Photoshop. Its a division of labor. The thinking part and the easier labor is done by the top guy (Adler) The tedious grunt work, the actual work that gets reproduced, is done by the vendors.

 

So is it cool? yeah

Was it done in order to make that classic comic? yes

Is it a painting, or an interesting item?