Can Someone Explain Production Art To Me? 1 1

[Siege Perilous]

I've been hovering around the OA scene for a few years now and I think I mostly understand the ins and outs. My searches on eBay almost always come back with production art (both color and monotone) for relatively cheap. Now, I understand what color guides are and these obviously aren't them, but I was hoping someone could explain what it is that I'm looking at. I can post examples if needed.

Thanks!

[ESeffinga]

MOST production art you see on eBay is not what it purports to be. It is a modern scam, and totally worthless garbage.

Here's a thread. In it are links to other older threads.... good place to start.

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/338095-is-production-page-art-worth-picking-up/?tab=comments#comment-7842669

Edited May 3, 2018 by ESeffinga

[Pete Marino]

I'd say 99% of the stuff on ebay was freshly printed in someone's garage the week it went up for auction.  it has nothing to do with the production of anything but cash that's making the listing.

[Siege Perilous]

I figured as much based on the low prices and sheer randomness of them. Thanks for confirming.

Edited May 3, 2018 by ZimmermanTelegram

[PhilipB2k17]

26 minutes ago, ZimmermanTelegram said:

I figured as much based on the low prices and sheer randomness of them. Thanks for confirming.

Really, you're better off going to Kinkos and having them print a nice OA scan onto some quality poster stock and hand that on your wall. Its cheaper, and much cooler to look at.

[JadeGiant]

8 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Really, you're better off going to Kinkos and having them print a nice OA scan onto some quality poster stock and hand that on your wall. Its cheaper, and much cooler to look at.

true, and Heritage has lots of nice large scans

[r100comics]

Leadpink's business model is great if your conscience allows you to do it - instantly manufacture and offer up whatever's hot or in demand, list everything at $9.95 so you can't be accused of gouging people and they only have their own greed to blame for spending hundreds of dollars and list everything with deliberately vague descriptions and the necessary disclaimers.

I've just tallied it up and his last week's Ebay sales alone were over $3,500 gross and he's achieving this every week, week in week out !

Edited May 3, 2018 by r100comics

[rucnok]

This one from silver surfer #24 is enroute to me. 

[Michael Browning]

I recently bought a stack of art from an estate sale at a hoarder's house and there were six large boxes of albums full of leadpink fakes, weighing over 200 pounds in total. The deceased had bought over 1,000 pieces of "production art" that were all fake. It had to be in the high thousands of dollars what he'd paid. I wish I'd taken a photo or a video of the photo albums filled with the leadpink forgeries. The house was so hot and the smell was horrendous and I just wanted to get the real original art and get out. It was unbelievable and sad, because the guy had 18 pieces of real original art, so he knew what OA is, and then so many albums full of the fake production pieces. Under the trash and junk were 100 long boxes of comics that I did not buy because another guy was purchasing those.

The deceased also had random porn that he'd printed off from the internet and kept in photo albums, too, along with five full dumpsters of trash that the movers took out of the house. The house looked like a toxic waste dump.

There is very little surviving, real production art that exists from comics from the time period where production art was a real thing. After computers started being used, there isn't much real production art.

Real production art consists of silverprints, color guides, color separations, mechanical covers and pages (because there are a few mechanical pages out there when corrections had to be made) and cover proofs. There are also a few blue line galleys out there from the old Gold Key/Whitman line of comics. I used to own one of the blue line galleys for an issue of Turok that was never published.

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/3/2024 at 6:19 AM, Michael Browning said:

Real production art consists of silverprints, color guides, color separations, mechanical covers and pages (because there are a few mechanical pages out there when corrections had to be made) and cover proofs. There are also a few blue line galleys out there from the old Gold Key/Whitman line of comics. I used to own one of the blue line galleys for an issue of Turok that was never published.

Absolutely - and real production art (at least pre-mid-90s) was also produced on resin coated paper - meaning the original artwork was shot and developed like a photograph, but on a lighter-weight paper to be used for paste-ups, reductions, etc. The paper is glossy, slick and thin - with no toothiness to it at all.

As far as the digital era goes, I produced RC Linos during the late 90's until 1998 or 1999 where digital files and page layout software became pretty much ubiquitous in all aspects of commercial printing. Scanning or photographing customer-provided hard copy (not originals) just went away for the most part. I'm sure there were some needs for RC output after that, but as far as publications went, I don't think many places used mechanicals after that. You still had to scan original art, but there isn't any need to reproduce it for further use in other applications - it just stays in it's digital format.

Edited August 3 by Dr. Balls

[Michael Browning]

On 8/3/2024 at 12:37 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Absolutely - and real production art (at least pre-mid-90s) was also produced on resin coated paper - meaning the original artwork was shot and developed like a photograph, but on a lighter-weight paper to be used for paste-ups, reductions, etc. The paper is glossy, slick and thin - with no toothiness to it at all.

As far as the digital era goes, I produced RC Linos during the late 90's until 1998 or 1999 where digital files and page layout software became pretty much ubiquitous in all aspects of commercial printing. Scanning or photographing customer-provided hard copy (not originals) just went away for the most part. I'm sure there were some needs for RC output after that, but as far as publications went, I don't think many places used mechanicals after that. You still had to scan original art, but there isn't any need to reproduce it for further use in other applications - it just stays in it's digital format.

Yes to all you said.

I wish more people knew about the production and printing processes. I worked in the newspaper business for 20 years and did everything except push the button on the press itself.

I do believe that REAL production art is the next big thing in the comic art-collecting world, because it's getting harder and harder to afford -- and justify spending huge amounts on comic art for people who aren't rich.

Edited August 3 by Michael Browning

[Dr. Balls]

On 8/3/2024 at 12:51 PM, Michael Browning said:

Yes to all you said.

I wish more people knew about the production and printing processes. I worked in the newspaper business for 20 years and did everything except push the button on the press itself.

I do believe that REAL production art is the next big thing in the comic art-collecting world, because it's getting harder and harder to afford -- and justify spending huge amounts on comic art for people who aren't rich.

I spent several years in prepress at a printing company before moving along to an ad agency, right there at the end of traditional methods as they moved into the digital workflow.

And I can see production pieces being collectible for the reasons you say - OA has been/is turning into a beast.

[Terry E. Gibbs]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:19 PM, Michael Browning said:

 

There is very little surviving, real production art that exists from comics from the time period where production art was a real thing. After computers started being used, there isn't much real production art.

 

 

Very, true. I am a flash collector, not an art collector, or comic collector, as I am into both, plus cosplay, and although I have other stuff .. it is around 95% Flash. After eight years of chasing every Infantino Flash page out there, I have only seen a couple of colour guides (although one was for almost a complete comic). I have only seen two auctions for them. As I love the comics they are from, they are extremely enjoyable. The colours are brighter, richer, and show shading by the colourist lost in production. The stuff however rarely ever shows up.

[Terry E. Gibbs]

On 8/3/2024 at 10:19 PM, Michael Browning said:

I recently bought a stack of art from an estate sale at a hoarder's house and there were six large boxes of albums full of leadpink fakes, weighing over 200 pounds in total. The deceased had bought over 1,000 pieces of "production art" that were all fake. .

Michael, you did not mention what the family of that deceased estate said when you informed them that the "fortune" in production art was not worth the fortune someone may have lead them to believe. .. Did they believe you ??

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

The proliferation of fakes has kept the price of actual production art and materials lower than they would be if they were treated like vintage artifacts of the production process.  A vintage piece of production art predates the publication of the comic, so when the price is below that of an entry level example of the comic, I take it as a sign the price may be artificially low.  Here's a few examples of pieces that were produced by Marvel before the book itself was published or hit the stands. 

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

[BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES]

And a few pages that aren't the Original Original art, but were completely redrawn over faded silverprints in order to make a reprint.  So it's all actual line drawn art. Less than original art but more than production art. 

[Michael Browning]

On 8/3/2024 at 11:48 PM, Terry E. Gibbs said:

Michael, you did not mention what the family of that deceased estate said when you informed them that the "fortune" in production art was not worth the fortune someone may have lead them to believe. .. Did they believe you ??

The family lived in a different state and was letting the estate sales person handle it all. The guy doing the sale was a bit shocked, but knew I wasn't lying to him. I could have taken it all with me when I got the original art because it was included but I explained to him that it was all fake and what it truly was. He tried to get me to take it and I refused, so I guess that was proof enough that it was fake.

Truthfully, I think we both just needed to get out of that dump.

I wished I'd have taken some pictures of the mess and especially the amount of fakes he had. I even called back a couple days later (there was so much stuff that it took almost a week to get it all sold) to see if I could come and take photos of it and the estate sales guy said the movers cleaned everything out after the comics were sold and it all went into the dumpster.

[Terry E. Gibbs]

Thanks Michael, reminds me how the "mile high collection was sold". Just get rid of it..!!

Edited August 5 by Terry E. Gibbs

[Rick2you2]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:31 AM, BLUECHIPCOLLECTIBLES said:

And a few pages that aren't the Original Original art, but were completely redrawn over faded silverprints in order to make a reprint.  So it's all actual line drawn art. Less than original art but more than production art. 

I would consider that original art, like a recreation page, but published. 

Except for color guides, I don’t consider “production art” to be art. Unless the artist had a direct hand in the creation of the piece, it is just part of the printing process. So while it may curiosity value, I don’t place any real value on it.