Okajima Adventure Comics #91 on Clink 3 3

[adamstrange]

The general public probably considers all comic collectors a bit wacko for what we pay for funny books.  I find it hard, therefore, to be too critical of how others collect.

Buy what you like and can afford but not what I like because I'm collecting that.

[Flex Mentallo]

Okajimania? Rings a bell!

[path4play]

5 hours ago, szavisca said:

 

All due respect I think you guys may be missing the point.  It is the ped and the story of the ped driving the price on these, not the books themselves.  How many cgc graded Okajima camp coded war themed books are there anyway?  Doesn't matter if they're relatively speaking junk books, if there's say less than 100 known?  5-6k for otherwise run of the mill books doesn't seem that shocking, after all no comic should be worth more than 10 cents. 

What will be really telling is when "an already highly coveted classic issue "camp coded Okajima book comes to auction...will those get 10 times guide?  I really doubt it because at the point the price of the book itself will outweigh its pedigree value.

All that said, I own none of these books and have no desire to buy any at the current prices.  I will however be happy to buy any from anyone who thinks they should be priced at a lower more appropriate value...

I was going to say that.  85 camp books known, maybe 170-180 exist.  That's pretty rare and tough to get into into.  It goes well beyond the specific comic into the history of the pedigree.  You are owning a museum piece.

That being said, I've tracked sales as well the last few years and perhaps to Mr. Bedrock's point the 10x rule is not universal (by my count only two books have passed over that level).  I think it also varies by the base value of the book, in other words the multiple goes lower for higher value books (which even those peaking out around 6k) and higher for lower value books.  So there is a base bottom entry point with high multiple and then perhaps diminishing returns for the higher demand books, as the book itself begins to overtake the interest in owning the pedigree.  

Longer term perhaps big pocket international collectors will be taking notice of the history and ramp the higher base value book's multiple too. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by path4play

[skypinkblu]

16 hours ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

and @MrBedrock How about 17X guide?

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/boy-comics-16-okajima-pedigree-lev-gleason-1944-cgc-fn-vf-70-white-pages/a/121816-14279.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I know you both are far advanced in comicdom than I but I think the Okajima Camp books are seeing a next level interest. 

Yes, and the owner is "proactively seeking offers", a few weeks after the sale, I wonder why?

[Ricksneatstuff]

3 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Yes, and the owner is "proactively seeking offers", a few weeks after the sale, I wonder why?

Its a setting in your Heritage account you have to turn on or off. You can choose to have offers on the things you buy or not to.  

I know the person who got it and I don’t believe they would sell it even for a strong profit now.  

I don’t have any more Okajima’s So my comments are not motivated out of a desire to build a stronger market. The camp books just have a unique historical appeal in the hobby and even a Four Color 5.0 Roy Rogers would Sell right now for $1500+ because of the interest level in the story and in the small number of camp books out there. 

[skypinkblu]

BTW, a Wonder Woman 9, sold on Pedigree,   last Nov for $1561  which was a few $$ more than I paid for one the same grade, the same night from the boards here (non Okajima). it's a DC and certainly a camp book.  I didn't know it was in a sale, or I would have grabbed that one, but it seems to me, that a lot of the books that get driven up are mentioned on these boards. That one slipped by. 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by skypinkblu
extra word

[skypinkblu]

3 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Its a setting in your Heritage account you have to turn on or off. You can choose to have offers on the things you buy or not to.  

I know the person who got it and I don’t believe they would sell it even for a strong profit now.  

I don’t have any more Okajima’s So my comments are not motivated out of a desire to build a stronger market. The camp books just have a unique historical appeal in the hobby and even a Four Color 5.0 Roy Rogers would Sell right now for $1500+ because of the interest level in the story and in the small number of camp books out there. 

Maybe...but since it's a pedigree that I was collecting years ago, without a tremendous amount of competition, I find the huge bumps in the past few years mind blowing. Small bumps I could see, but it takes 2 bidders so I guess you have others who agree with you.

 

[skypinkblu]

13 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Its a setting in your Heritage account you have to turn on or off. You can choose to have offers on the things you buy or not to.  

I know the person who got it and I don’t believe they would sell it even for a strong profit now.  

I don’t have any more Okajima’s So my comments are not motivated out of a desire to build a stronger market. The camp books just have a unique historical appeal in the hobby and even a Four Color 5.0 Roy Rogers would Sell right now for $1500+ because of the interest level in the story and in the small number of camp books out there. 

You don't have to turn it on or off btw.

I just checked my account.

Our records show that you haven't indicated your preference regarding receiving anonymous offers on items that you won from Heritage at auction.

[Ricksneatstuff]

9 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

You don't have to turn it on or off btw.

I just checked my account.

Our records show that you haven't indicated your preference regarding receiving anonymous offers on items that you won from Heritage at auction.

Yeah. I have it turned on, obviously. I like getting offers. All I meant to say is it is a choice you can choose to have it on or off for all items you buy.   

I also like making offers so I’m happy to get out the Overstreet and the calculator and start multiplying on camp books (that cost less than a midsize sedan :). 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Ricksneatstuff

[skypinkblu]

1 minute ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Yeah. I have it turned on, obviously. I like getting offers. All I meant to say is it is a choice you can choose to have it on or off for all items you buy.   

I also like making offers. 

Really? You of all people? I'm shocked;)

But I didn't mean, you, Rick. I meant the person who bought the Boy comic had it on. Why solicit offers if you really didn't buy the book with the intention of selling it?  I've also never seen the work "proactively" used there, but maybe it's new, who knows.

[skypinkblu]

5 minutes ago, Ricksneatstuff said:

Yeah. I have it turned on, obviously. I like getting offers. All I meant to say is it is a choice you can choose to have it on or off for all items you buy.   

I also like making offers so I’m happy to get out the Overstreet and the calculator and start multiplying on camp books (that cost less than a midsize sedan :). 

Don't even THINK about it, lol. 

[jabats]

35 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

Really? You of all people? I'm shocked;)

But I didn't mean, you, Rick. I meant the person who bought the Boy comic had it on. Why solicit offers if you really didn't buy the book with the intention of selling it?  I've also never seen the work "proactively" used there, but maybe it's new, who knows.

I can confirm I have no intention of selling this book.

I overall love the HA website, but sometimes have trouble navigating their technical settings.

I don’t remember even encountering this “account setting” or checkbox or whatever it is (let alone turning it on), but perhaps it is turned on by default, or I enabled it by mistake.

Edited May 16, 2018 by jabats

[skypinkblu]

14 minutes ago, jabats said:

I can confirm I have no intention of selling this book.

I overall love the HA website, but sometimes have trouble navigating their technical settings.

I don’t remember even encountering this “account setting” or checkbox or whatever it is (let alone turning it on), but perhaps it is turned on by default, or I enabled it by mistake.

In that case, I congratulate you on winning it and I hope you enjoy owning it in good health for a long time.

 Sometimes I am surprised at the quick flipping that pops up here lately, especially on these rare treasures, and I was a bidder for a while on that book, so  when I saw that setting that was what came to mind and I can tend to voice opinions at times.

People can buy and sell as often or whatever they want once they own it, so I should just be quiet I suppose. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by skypinkblu

[jabats]

6 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

In that case, I congratulate you on winning it and I hope you enjoy owning it in good health for a long time.

 Sometimes I am surprised at the quick flipping that pops up here lately, especially on these rare treasures, and I was a bidder for a while on that book, so  when I saw that setting that was what came to mind and I can tend to voice opinions at times.

People can buy and sell as often or whatever they want once they own it, so I should just be quiet I suppose. 

No offense taken at all! I just wanted to clarify.

If I ever actually want to flip it, I will post it here on the boards and save the fees 

[miraclemet]

21 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

Camp book available. Let's do this!

Just to be clear when you are referencing the 10x pricing, you are talking about RIck's statement right? 

 

Ive never said all Okajima's are valued at 10x market of non-pedigree versions. 

Just ones from the camp era that are either war covers, "classic" covers or high grade copies (camp era grades are lower on average than later books in the pedigree). 

Ive sold a couple of high grade non-camp books like the Exciting you are selling, and they got 2-4x market, not 10x  (and Im never talking about the multiplier vs Overstreet, just vs Market)

 

And while you are right there have been 5 books on the market in the last year (which might be more than say a Chicago ped), that still pretty rare considering there's a MAJOR incentive for cashing out right now. The fact that most are holding onto their books speaks to their collectibility. 

And I agree, the market valuation of the camp books is only slightly about the book (moreso for the ones I mentioned before) and more about the pedigree story. It's like buying a sports car not because of the car, but because it was owned by someone famous. It does not make it less collectible if the market values it as such. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by miraclemet

[path4play]

23 hours ago, Flex Mentallo said:

Okajimania? Rings a bell!

 

Its kind of a funny debate to focus on a pedigree that exists within a larger pool of perishable collectibles often rendered unreadable within a plastic slab that can pretty easily go for 10x or more than even the highest price of a copy from said pedigree.   What's the highest priced Baker cover, or highest priced GGA book?  I'd be curious about the corresponding price run ups within those genres over last several years.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by path4play

[Flex Mentallo]

8 minutes ago, path4play said:

perishable collectibles

When tulips came to the Netherlands, all the world went mad. A sailor who mistook a rare tulip bulb for an onion and ate it with his herring sandwich was charged with a felony and thrown in prison. A bulb named Semper Augustus, notable for its flame-like white and red petals, sold for more than the cost of a mansion in a fashionable Amsterdam neighborhood, complete with coach and garden. As the tulip market grew, speculation exploded, with traders offering exorbitant prices for bulbs that had yet to flower.

Known for their passionate love of flowers, the Dutch highly prized the tulip upon its introduction to Western Europe in the mid-16th century. Dutch collectors devised a hierarchy of tulip varieties based upon their species and coloring, assigning values to the various flowers. Because it was impossible to determine which variegation would bloom from a particular bulb, the tulip became an object of speculation. During their earliest years in Europe, the bulbs were primarily of interest to the wealthy, but by the mid-1630s the craze caught on with middle-class and poorer families. The increased demand caused the price of the bulbs to soar.

The market reached its height in late 1636 and early 1637, after the bulbs had been planted to bloom the following spring. People mortgaged their homes and industries in order to buy the bulbs for resale at higher prices. Charles Mackay, in his definitive history of early financial bubbles, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841), published a list of objects (and their prices) which were exchanged for "one single root of the rare species called the Viceroy":

• Two lasts of wheat (448 florins)
• Four lasts of rye (558 florins)
• Four fat oxen (480 florins)
• Eight fat swine (240 florins)
• Twelve fat sheep (120 florins)
• Two Hogsheads of wine (70 florins)
• Four tuns of beer (32 florins)
• Two tuns of butter (192 florins)
• One thousands lbs. of cheese (120 florins)
• A complete bed (100 florins)
• A suit of clothes (80 florins)
• A silver drinking-cup (60 florins)2

In February 1637, as spring drew near and the bulbs were close to flowering, consumer confidence evaporated and the market suddenly crashed.

[skypinkblu]

42 minutes ago, Flex Mentallo said:

When tulips came to the Netherlands, all the world went mad. A sailor who mistook a rare tulip bulb for an onion and ate it with his herring sandwich was charged with a felony and thrown in prison. A bulb named Semper Augustus, notable for its flame-like white and red petals, sold for more than the cost of a mansion in a fashionable Amsterdam neighborhood, complete with coach and garden. As the tulip market grew, speculation exploded, with traders offering exorbitant prices for bulbs that had yet to flower.

Known for their passionate love of flowers, the Dutch highly prized the tulip upon its introduction to Western Europe in the mid-16th century. Dutch collectors devised a hierarchy of tulip varieties based upon their species and coloring, assigning values to the various flowers. Because it was impossible to determine which variegation would bloom from a particular bulb, the tulip became an object of speculation. During their earliest years in Europe, the bulbs were primarily of interest to the wealthy, but by the mid-1630s the craze caught on with middle-class and poorer families. The increased demand caused the price of the bulbs to soar.

The market reached its height in late 1636 and early 1637, after the bulbs had been planted to bloom the following spring. People mortgaged their homes and industries in order to buy the bulbs for resale at higher prices. Charles Mackay, in his definitive history of early financial bubbles, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841), published a list of objects (and their prices) which were exchanged for "one single root of the rare species called the Viceroy":

• Two lasts of wheat (448 florins)
• Four lasts of rye (558 florins)
• Four fat oxen (480 florins)
• Eight fat swine (240 florins)
• Twelve fat sheep (120 florins)
• Two Hogsheads of wine (70 florins)
• Four tuns of beer (32 florins)
• Two tuns of butter (192 florins)
• One thousands lbs. of cheese (120 florins)
• A complete bed (100 florins)
• A suit of clothes (80 florins)
• A silver drinking-cup (60 florins)2

In February 1637, as spring drew near and the bulbs were close to flowering, consumer confidence evaporated and the market suddenly crashed.

I love when you write stories...this was where I first read about tulipmania...not in a pdf, but the book, from the library when I was a kid (after 1650;) 

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/965/965-h/965-h.htm

 

Title: The Black Tulip

Author: Alexandre Dumas (Pere)

Release Date: August 5, 2008 [EBook #965]
Last Updated: May 11, 2018

Language: English

Character set encoding: UTF-8

*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK THE BLACK TULIP ***

[path4play]

I understood the meaning of the image, and the suggestion behind it.  What I am less clear on is if your serious or trolling?

My question that hasn't been answered is, why is the pedigree different than say the price premium between a Baker cover, and a non-Baker copy of an issue in the same series one number off?  Or say the differential between a Cindy #37 vs a Cindy #36?

You can't eat a comic any more than a $115 million painting (though both might provide kindling for roasting some food in a SHTF situation) so safe to say buy what you can afford and makes you feel good during your time on earth.  

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by path4play

[Flex Mentallo]

4 hours ago, szavisca said:

but I think much of the oft repeated popular myth has been historically debunked

It was real, but writers exaggerated the impact. many of the more colorful stories were just hype.