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HA buyer premium "change"
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Started by malvin,

25 posts in this topic

GreatEscape

GreatEscape

Posted
Posted

20% is easier to calculate but does seems a bit greedy given Heritage already charges a seller commission (up to 10%) and collects sales taxes (3-10% for buyer depending on state).  Typically commission rates decline over time as markets mature.  Assuming sellers and buyers fully factor in all these costs into their bidding, then the net cost can approach 40% (ie, buyer pays 30% above hammer price, seller receives hammer price less 10% sales commission) compared to direct P2P transaction. Yowza!

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BeholdersEye

BeholdersEye

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My personal opinion on the Heritage Auction fees is that I'd love to see it shift to ComicLink's model of only the seller being charged a consignment commission and the buyer simply pay what he or she bid (plus applicable taxes and shipping of course).

I guess it's like gambling where when you place a wager, if you lose, you owe what you wagered plus a % juice, making you feel like you lost, then got kicked in the nuts and forced to cough up more money.

The overriding theory of ComicLink's model is that the bidder has a certain amount they're willing to spend, so if that's $10,000, then at ComicLink, that's $10,000 (and the seller gets $9,000 due to the 10% consignment fee) where at Heritage, in theory, a customer bids about $8,340 (adding in HA's 20% buyer's premium to create that buyer all-in total of $10,000), so the seller would then get less at Heritage than with Comic Link even if at 0% sellers consignment commission fees at a net $8,340 vs CL's $9k, and goes down from there depending on what the seller's fee actually is at HA for the seller.

The x-factor is which auction house can generate the most interest, active bidders and ultimately the highest final price when the hammer hits.  That's always the subjective opinion that's speculated back and forth on both sides.

If HA feels they can command higher bids, and truly earn the sellers consignments, I'd love to see HA eliminate the buyer's fees and roll everything over the the seller and upping that to 20% or 25%, where a seller in theory would be very happy giving HA a piece of the action for their efforts to bring in the elite bidders and top dollars for their pieces that could otherwise not be realized via private sale, art dealer nor other auction house, including ComicLink, eBay and the rest.  It's hard to prove or disprove performance since with original art it's all one-of-a-kind, and not like a CGC 9.8 Hulk #181 where there's many out there that then could be compared against each other when put to auction for sale.

 

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Rick2you2

Rick2you2

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Posted

I must disagree. If my reading is correct, it is outrageous--not the 0.5% increase but the rate structure. It looks like HA has hidden a huge total take by dividing its fee between buyers and sellers. 

By way of comparison, this is what Christie's charges--with no seller's consignment fee (or at least none which  I can find). It is from https://www.christies.com/buying-services/buying-guide/financial-information/:

"For all collecting categories except wine, the new buyer's premium rate will be an amount equal to 25% of the hammer price of each lot up to and including £175,000/US$250,000; plus 20% of the hammer price from £175,001/US$250,001 up to and including £3,000,000/US$4,000,000 and 12.5% above £3,000,001/US$4,000,001."

It seems to me that if the HA is taking 10%, plus 20%, that's a lot more than the maximum of 25% on the total by Christies.

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malvin

malvin

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1 hour ago, Rick2you2 said:

I must disagree. If my reading is correct, it is outrageous--not the 0.5% increase but the rate structure. It looks like HA has hidden a huge total take by dividing its fee between buyers and sellers. 

By way of comparison, this is what Christie's charges--with no seller's consignment fee (or at least none which  I can find). It is from https://www.christies.com/buying-services/buying-guide/financial-information/:

"For all collecting categories except wine, the new buyer's premium rate will be an amount equal to 25% of the hammer price of each lot up to and including £175,000/US$250,000; plus 20% of the hammer price from £175,001/US$250,001 up to and including £3,000,000/US$4,000,000 and 12.5% above £3,000,001/US$4,000,001."

It seems to me that if the HA is taking 10%, plus 20%, that's a lot more than the maximum of 25% on the total by Christies.

The 'list' price for sellers was 10% for a long time, although my understanding was you get a discount with good consignments 

Malvin 

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jeBailey

jeBailey

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Posted
3 minutes ago, malvin said:

The 'list' price for sellers was 10% for a long time, although my understanding was you get a discount with good consignments 

Malvin 

You can even get part of the buyers premium if they really want your consignment.

John B

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PhilipB2k17

PhilipB2k17

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Posted (edited)

Look. If most of the big dealers, hobby heavy hitters and people like us say we will blycott HA until they drop their double dipping, excessive fees structure, and shift business to their competitors, they may decide to charge reasonable fees. They charge it, because we stupidly pay it. 

Edited by PhilipB2k17
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malvin

malvin

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1 hour ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Yep. They bribe the people with the bigger pieces and screw the medium to little guy. 

I don't quite understand how that screws the others. 

Big consigners have more buying power, which is a fact of life. 

Malvin 

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Rick2you2

Rick2you2

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21 minutes ago, malvin said:

I don't quite understand how that screws the others. 

Big consigners have more buying power, which is a fact of life. 

Malvin 

HA does provide an excellent website experience, but it's an electronic experience, but "hand made."

How would you compare Clink to Connect, both qualitatively and price-wise?

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The Voord

The Voord

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Posted (edited)

Seems like a minefield to navigate.  If ever I'm bidding in an auction scenario, I always factor-in extra costs on top of the hammer price (so my budget is based on overall cost)..  Works for me as hidden fees have already been taken into account in my bidding strategy.

Edited by The Voord
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buyatari

buyatari

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Posted
23 hours ago, jeBailey said:

You can even get part of the buyers premium if they really want your consignment.

John B

I’m curious where the cutoffs for this might be. Obviously every case is different but at what point would you as a seller expect not to pay these fees? At what point would you as a seller expect a negative fee? 

 

 

 

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aokartman

aokartman

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Posted (edited)

I think a single piece $10K consignment would be worth an "ask" about more favorable terms.  It is $5K estimated just to be considered for the HA Signature events.  David

Edited by aokartman
clarify
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Ironmandrd

Ironmandrd

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For a signature auction?  I can’t see that  - if the bar were so low then there would be few instances that they would charge their standard rates. 

Edited by Ironmandrd
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aokartman

aokartman

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28 minutes ago, Ironmandrd said:

For a signature auction?  I can’t see that  - if the bar were so low then there would be few instances that they would charge their standard rates. 

You are probably right.  Maybe a single item consigned with an auction estimate of $20K would be worth inquiring about?  Best, David

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Doc Joe

Doc Joe

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Heritage provides an excellent experience; they have great catalogs, their auction hours are favorable for European buyers 

They have great customer service and yes if you are consigning items that are valuable then you can get discounts on the fees depending on the item, how much you have brought with them in the past and how much you have sold. 

I think the live auction experience can 'extract' more out of people that the sudden end of clink or the utter confusion and madness that is comic connect. 

There are times when I am out sniped on comiclink and yes I would have paid more, HA allows for that and works the collector psychology well. 

If you are trying to consign garbage then of course you won't get a deal. Go to eBay. 

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