BCarter27 Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, delekkerste said: Would you have pulled the trigger at $18K or thought it reasonable that someone would? What do you think it's worth without the "milestone premium"? Even with the wedding, that particular cover at $18K was too high imo, given its level of finish and rendering. (Although on the plus side, it wasn't a variant cover.) And it is doubly-difficult to price as it is only one of a couple of Janin physical Bat pieces. But maybe a 50% bump over a comparable splash or variant cover from the same artist would be fair in my mind? Although I'm sure artists/reps would stretch it much further than that. For what it's worth, I had asked after the Joe Jusko and Natali Sanders, and the Joelle Jones Batman 44 cover. But never got prices as they were already gone. Edited July 6, 2018 by BCarter27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCarter27 Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) Some of the interior splashes are amazing examples of those artists. It's obvious they went the extra mile. But honestly, the whole thing leaves a cloud over those pages now, and I would actually pay LESS than I would've if they had been from an issue not related to this mess. I like to buy on aesthetics with bonus points for story. But this story would actually be a negative. It's like buying a cover or page from War Crimes or Identity Crisis or something. Edited July 6, 2018 by BCarter27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Machismo Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 I avoid event OA for this reason. Metal, while by my favourite creators and Batman-centric, was still an event, and thus something I actively avoided in terms of OA. That stuff fizzles quick nowadays, and the pricetags that the hype and marketing pushes carry are a little more obscene than I’m used to. Unless breathtaking (like the Lee/Williams piece posted earlier in the thread), I also now avoid variant covers, unless they’re part of an A/B set. Incentive and regional covers aren’t falling within my personal guidelines, and I need more of those nowadays with how much good art is being pumped out. A cover to the wedding issue of Batman or DK3 #1 sounds great until you realize there’s 6000 artists doing one, and people are likely only going to remember the primary cover, if at all. I love the idea of DC Black Label. Contained, (mostly) non-continuity stories, freed from tie-ins, long-term implications, and excessive micromanaging. About as pure as we’re going to get from the big two in terms of storytelling. As a reader, I’m excited to jump into the next great classic we’ve never had. SquareChaos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvark88 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, BCarter27 said: I would argue that comics NEED to be creating milestones in the monthly floppies to pave the way for their IP in other media. The milestone didn't work? Retcon it and try something else quickly. At least Nightwing actually married Oracle/Batgirl in Convergence July, 2015. 3 years later, Batman almost married Catwoman July, 2018: I feel sorry for the OA Batman collector who got caught up in the marriage hype to the tune of $18k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Catwoman_Fan Posted July 6, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 6, 2018 4 hours ago, BCarter27 said: Some of the interior splashes are amazing examples of those artists. It's obvious they went the extra mile. I picked up one of the internal splashes, because of the art (and Catwoman by JLGL), seeing it published was just a bonus. Actually, the first time in 18 years of collecting that I’ve ever purchased any art before publication. But I never considered Batman 50 to be anything more than an anniversary issue, and I wasn’t tied to the will they/won’t they story. BCarter27, comix4fun, alxjhnsn and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 33 minutes ago, Catwoman_Fan said: I picked up one of the internal splashes, because of the art (and Catwoman by JLGL), seeing it published was just a bonus. Actually, the first time in 18 years of collecting that I’ve ever purchased any art before publication. But I never considered Batman 50 to be anything more than an anniversary issue, and I wasn’t tied to the will they/won’t they story. Hadn't seen that one. That's one sexy Catwoman. JLGL is the man. Catwoman_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicwiz Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 (edited) The notion of covers misleading readers goes back to when I was a kid. Does Spidey really cop out (ASM 112)? Is the Hulk really dead (IH 131)? Those two will always stick out in my mind, as I refer to that period as my golden years of comics, where I may have had a brush with the cover at a newsstand or in a store, wasn't able to buy it for one reason or another, and I couldn't quite get them out of my mind for hours afterwards. They probably had a greater impact on me because Spider-Man and Hulk were my favourites growing-up as a kid and I would have been very young when I saw these back issues in retail shops or books stores. It isn't so much a nostalgic link to the story, as much as the way the cover art impacted me at an impressionable age. I can't say much about Batman 50 because I don't read new comics and haven't bought one off the newsstand for decades, but the dynamics can't be the same because the targetted audience is much older. Sure, you can buy into the artists work, and I see no problem with it. I didn't have to read either of those two issues I mentioned for them to have an impact on me, and to this day, they are two of my favourite comics. I just see the reader market being very different now, and you can still get away with selling a cover these days, without people caring about the content or whether the cover even relates to the plot content or outcome. Strictly from the point of view of speculating on an "event" issue, I'd be more concerned with the amount of covers that were made, but that's another story. Edited July 6, 2018 by comicwiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelfan1 Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 it's also possible that the covers may have a stigma to them? as art that misrepresented several months hyped story that fizzled. when you see the Janin cover now - what comes to mind is DC lyed to fans with the wedding hype they created. The interior garcia Lopez splash and some others in the book that stand alone and have nothing to do with the wedding per se - should command long term interest - as examples of Catwoman with Bats art. Catwoman_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 7 hours ago, Catwoman_Fan said: I picked up one of the internal splashes, because of the art (and Catwoman by JLGL), seeing it published was just a bonus. Actually, the first time in 18 years of collecting that I’ve ever purchased any art before publication. But I never considered Batman 50 to be anything more than an anniversary issue, and I wasn’t tied to the will they/won’t they story. That's tremendous!! It completely stands up on its own, and looks like it could fit in anywhere in the Batman universe. Also, that's a favorite version of the Catwoman costume. Nice eye you've got!! comicfanboy007 and Catwoman_Fan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eewwnuk Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 fellas, love will find its way! if it's meant to be, it will be! the only thing debacle-y of this is the price that collectors or speculators are willing to pay for modern batman art. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 31 minutes ago, eewwnuk said: fellas, love will find its way! if it's meant to be, it will be! the only thing debacle-y of this is the price that collectors or speculators are willing to pay for modern batman art. Some collectors pay the ridiculous price for murphy white knight there is always one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Machismo Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 2 hours ago, MagnusX said: Some collectors pay the ridiculous price for murphy white knight there is always one... There’s a whole lot more than one. All the good OA from WK is already gone Sideshow Bob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Yeah - no sympathy on this one. As has been mentioned, retcons have happened for forever - I'm sure the Mignola cover to Batman 428 would go for a mint. But why? Jason Todd didn't actually die in the issue, and Robin was replaced within two years. Even worse are when characters don't appear in the issue: Example: Hulk 359 (Wolverine's on the cover; not in the issue). Werewolf By Night # 37 -- this annoys me to no end. It's not Moon Knight's 3rd appearance because, despite being on the cover, he's not in the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastaar Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 18k, yikes. Edited July 9, 2018 by Blastaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: Yeah - no sympathy on this one. As has been mentioned, retcons have happened for forever - I'm sure the Mignola cover to Batman 428 would go for a mint. But why? Jason Todd didn't actually die in the issue, and Robin was replaced within two years. I think big events and ret-cons are just fundamentally different now vs. years ago. You kill off the Green Goblin, Jason Todd, Superman, etc. back in the day, and it's a big deal, as the audience is larger and there are fewer such events. Even when you undo these things later on, these storylines have still made their mark. But, between the comic-reading audience having shrunk so much, and there being so many ret-cons and events whose impact has faded over time - not to mention entire universe re-boots and the abandoning of continuity - nowadays anything the Big Two do is just not going to have the impact or significance as it would have in the '70s, '80s or early '90s. Batman marries Catwoman in the late '80s or early '90s and fandom would have gone wild. Nowadays, it's more of a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" situation (and, no, just because there's an article about it in the NYT, it doesn't mean that people care about it...most comic fans here hadn't even heard about this issue). Catwoman_Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatsby77 Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, delekkerste said: Nowadays, it's more of a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" situation (and, no, just because there's an article about it in the NYT, it doesn't mean that people care about it...most comic fans here hadn't even heard about this issue). Agreed. As a long-time Daredevil fan, I can tell you Daredevil vol. 2 # 32 is a top-5 most important book in his entire mythos. Why? He reveals his identity in court -- and thus to the world. And it sticks...for at least the next 60 issues. Fundamentally changes the character. And, I might add, is one of many reasons that the Bendis/Maleev run (at least # 16-80) is stronger than either of Miller's runs was in the '80s. But...nobody was reading Daredevil in 2002-2010, so the market doesn't care. And fanboys on this board -- most of whom are in their 40s -- weren't reading Daredevil during this period and don't even know this happened, let alone its signficance. So its a fools errand to try to convince folks that Daredevil # 16-87 (at least) is a better read than # 158-201. Ditto, that the Netflix show (seasons 1-2) owe as much (or more) to this run than they do to Miller's two runs at the book. Only folks who have read all of the Miller and Bendis and Brubaker runs could make that judgement, but I have, and it's true. chrisco37, Mr. Machismo, theflashunc and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvin Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 28 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: Agreed. As a long-time Daredevil fan, I can tell you Daredevil vol. 2 # 32 is a top-5 most important book in his entire mythos. Why? He reveals his identity in court -- and thus to the world. And it sticks...for at least the next 60 issues. Fundamentally changes the character. And, I might add, is one of many reasons that the Bendis/Maleev run (at least # 16-80) is stronger than either of Miller's runs was in the '80s. But...nobody was reading Daredevil in 2002-2010, so the market doesn't care. And fanboys on this board -- most of whom are in their 40s -- weren't reading Daredevil during this period and don't even know this happened, let alone its signficance. So its a fools errand to try to convince folks that Daredevil # 16-87 (at least) is a better read than # 158-201. Ditto, that the Netflix show (seasons 1-2) owe as much (or more) to this run than they do to Miller's two runs at the book. Only folks who have read all of the Miller and Bendis and Brubaker runs could make that judgement, but I have, and it's true. I love those issues, but the other problem is that Maleev did most of his work digitally, so there is little OA to be had. Malvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 52 minutes ago, Gatsby77 said: Only folks who have read all of the Miller and Bendis and Brubaker runs could make that judgement, but I have, and it's true. I agree with you I read the 3 runs; Miller Bendis and Brubaker, and Bendis run is far superior that the other 2. Andahaion and Mr. Machismo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gatsby77 said: But...nobody was reading Daredevil in 2002-2010, so the market doesn't care.. I've read all of Miller's DD and all of the Bendis and Brubaker runs (everything up to Andy Diggle's "Shadowland" storyline, which I haven't read yet, but, will get to at some point). There were certainly moments reading the Bendis & Brubaker DD runs that I thought that this stuff is as good as, if not better than, much of what Miller & Janson did earlier on the title. But, yeah, no one cares, for a number of reasons...a much smaller audience, lack of OA supply due to digital rendering, standing in the shadow of great DD creators past (esp. Miller), and a general feeling, IMO, that, in an age where Marvel Universe continuity has been abandoned (even though the DD-verse respects its history more than almost any other title), great stories can still be told, but the important ones are, with extremely few exceptions, pretty much done and dusted. I think the last point goes double for DC...talented creators can still tell great Batman stories, but, between all the reboots and past gimmicks and oversaturation of the character in every way possible for almost 80 years, I think most people probably at least subconsciously realize that the days of character-defining, genre-shaping classics like DKR are over (even Miller isn't Miller anymore). And that's not to say that someone can't put a new twist on things like with The Court of Owls or White Knight, just that, I think we are past the point in Batman's history where things really matter like they used to, especially with comic circulations a fraction of what they were in the mid-'80s to early '90s timeframe. I know a lot of people will disagree with that, but, like Vader told Luke...search your feelings, you know it to be true. Edited July 9, 2018 by delekkerste Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnusX Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 6 minutes ago, delekkerste said: (everything up to Andy Diggle's "Shadowland" storyline, which I haven't read yet, but, will get to at some point). Don't, its absolute garbage... just saving you some time... Kohei, Mr. Machismo and delekkerste 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...