ASM #33 Cover Different Colors? 2 2

[James J Johnson]

Just now, Not A Clone said:

Ah, I always wondered why #76 & #82 seemed much more scarce. This must be it.

Circulation was not constant. It wasn't simply dictated by the retailer's orders. The lion's share of Marvel's profits was generated by the ads. Some advertisers signed contracts based on a certain stipulated production number; X amount of ads circulating in the public's hands, so regardless if the retailer's estimated need was only 450,000, if an advertiser with a valued contract signed based on 600,000, that's what they printed. Now, this is also why there have been "warehouse" finds. If 450,000 of a periodical is shipped to distributors for retail, the 150,000 that are not wind up on pallets or shelves. That's also why there are a disproportionate amount of very high grade AS 45s compared to 46s.

[The Lions Den]

9 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Circulation was not constant. It wasn't simply dictated by the retailer's orders. The lion's share of Marvel's profits was generated by the ads. Some advertisers signed contracts based on a certain stipulated production number; X amount of ads circulating in the public's hands, so regardless if the retailer's estimated need was only 450,000, if an advertiser with a valued contract signed based on 600,000, that's what they printed. Now, this is also why there have been "warehouse" finds. If 450,000 of a periodical is shipped to distributors for retail, the 150,000 that are not wind up on pallets or shelves. That's also why there are a disproportionate amount of very high grade AS 45s compared to 46s.

So if we apply this new information to the equation, do you think this is the reason there are a lot of ASM #33's with the spine edge misaligned? I've noticed many copies that have that particular flaw. On most copies you see, the "M" in the word Marvel isn't visible or is only partially visible when looking at the front cover...

Edited July 8, 2018 by The Lions Den
Additional info added

[Not A Clone]

6 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Circulation was not constant. It wasn't simply dictated by the retailer's orders. The lion's share of Marvel's profits was generated by the ads. Some advertisers signed contracts based on a certain stipulated production number; X amount of ads circulating in the public's hands, so regardless if the retailer's estimated need was only 450,000, if an advertiser with a valued contract signed based on 600,000, that's what they printed. Now, this is also why there have been "warehouse" finds. If 450,000 of a periodical is shipped to distributors for retail, the 150,000 that are not wind up on pallets or shelves. That's also why there are a disproportionate amount of very high grade AS 45s compared to 46s.

That explains how someone I know used to buy straight from the distributor that they used to live next to. They would only pay about 1/4 of the cover price too. They would buy stacks of the same book. Now they have stacks of some crazy good books like ASM #14 in NM condition, but they won't sell. 

[James J Johnson]

1 minute ago, The Lions Den said:

So if we apply this new information to the equation, do you think this is the reason there are a lot of ASM #33's with the spine edge misaligned? I've noticed many copies that have that particular flaw. On most copies you see, the "M" in the word Marvel isn't visible when looking at the front cover...

No. The double and (more rare) triple-print run variations can be identified by elements of the printing process only. Any books from a single, double, or triple print runs can suffer technical issues in the cutting/folding process.

[The Lions Den]

1 minute ago, Not A Clone said:

Now they have stacks of some crazy good books like ASM #14 in NM condition, but they won't sell

WOW...that's the first time I've ever heard about that. I knew about the warehouse finds, but this takes hoarding to a whole new level...

[The Lions Den]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

No. The double and (more rare) triple-print run variations can be identified by elements of the printing process only. Any books from a single, double, or triple print runs can suffer technical issues in the cutting/folding process.

Another one for the "learn something every day" file. And triple-print runs? Shucks folks, I'm speechless...

[Not A Clone]

Just now, The Lions Den said:

WOW...that's the first time I've ever heard about that. I knew about the warehouse finds, but this takes hoarding to a whole new level...

I know right? I just saw one of his #129 that he brought into my LCS to get graded. Wow. So shiny and bright. Makes my #129 look like a turd.

[James J Johnson]

8 minutes ago, Not A Clone said:

That explains how someone I know used to buy straight from the distributor that they used to live next to. They would only pay about 1/4 of the cover price too. They would buy stacks of the same book. Now they have stacks of some crazy good books like ASM #14 in NM condition, but they won't sell. 

About 2 times as many 14s were produced as 15s.

[porcupine48]

I'm just here to argue.Everyone's wrong.

Myself included.

[The Lions Den]

1 minute ago, Not A Clone said:

I know right? I just saw one of his #129 that he brought into my LCS to get graded. Wow. So shiny and bright. Makes my #129 look like a turd.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. I suppose if there's a heaven for comic book lovers, it's filled with books like that...

[The Lions Den]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

About 2 times as many 14s were produced as 15s.

The Green Goblin has the last laugh after all!   

[Lazyboy]

13 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Circulation was not constant. It wasn't simply dictated by the retailer's orders. The lion's share of Marvel's profits was generated by the ads. Some advertisers signed contracts based on a certain stipulated production number; X amount of ads circulating in the public's hands, so regardless if the retailer's estimated need was only 450,000, if an advertiser with a valued contract signed based on 600,000, that's what they printed. Now, this is also why there have been "warehouse" finds. If 450,000 of a periodical is shipped to distributors for retail, the 150,000 that are not wind up on pallets or shelves. That's also why there are a disproportionate amount of very high grade AS 45s compared to 46s.

 Advertisers don't care about print runs. Only circulation is relevant to them. Unless the publisher is handing out free copies, increasing the print run of a random issue of a series is highly unlikely to increase circulation.

[The Lions Den]

2 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:

I'm just here to argue.Everyone's wrong.

Myself included.

This is probably the most I've ever learned on a Sunday in my life...

[Not A Clone]

2 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

About 2 times as many 14s were produced as 15s.

What were some of the lowest printed runs of those early ones?

[porcupine48]

4 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

This is probably the most I've ever learned on a Sunday in my life...

No way man!

I kid 

From my post or the thread?It is good reading.I just find when circulation and printing comes into conversation,fireworks bloom!

[The Lions Den]

Just now, porcupine48 said:

No way man!

I kid 

From my post or the thread?It is good reading.I just find when circulation and printing comes into conversation,fireworks bloom!

I appreciate a good sense of humor---it's one of the first things I look for in a friend. Hopefully no fireworks, though. But this information explains quite a few things I've been curious about for years...

[porcupine48]

8 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I appreciate a good sense of humor---it's one of the first things I look for in a friend. Hopefully no fireworks, though. But this information explains quite a few things I've been curious about for years...

Well consider a friend made.

I'll step out and start learning too.Always learning!

(I'm not just here for the pretty faces)

[James J Johnson]

39 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

 Advertisers don't care about print runs. Only circulation is relevant to them. Unless the publisher is handing out free copies, increasing the print run of a random issue of a series is highly unlikely to increase circulation.

Yes. Circulation is what I'm referring to. The advertisers don't care anything about how the copies get printed, whether it's one, two, or two thousand runs of the press; they care about the end result. The circulation. I'm always curious about how the mind works. What would lead you to believe that I was referring to advertisers being concerned with the printing process itself? Is it just to be a contrarian? Or did I lead you to believe that in some way I was stating that there were advertisers touring the printer's facilities, counting print runs? Circulation is the issue for advertisers. The end result. The numbers. Not the printing process.

[Lazyboy]

1 minute ago, James J Johnson said:

47 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

 Advertisers don't care about print runs. Only circulation is relevant to them. Unless the publisher is handing out free copies, increasing the print run of a random issue of a series is highly unlikely to increase circulation.

Yes. Circulation is what I'm referring to. The advertisers don't care anything about how the copies get printed, whether it's one, two, or two thousand runs of the press; they care about the end result. The circulation. I'm always curious about how the mind works. What would lead you to believe that I was referring to advertisers being concerned with the printing process itself? Is it just to be a contrarian? Or did I lead you to believe that in some way I was stating that there were advertisers touring the printer's facilities, counting print runs? Circulation is the issue for advertisers. The end result. The numbers. Not the printing process.

Now I'm confused. You said:

1 hour ago, James J Johnson said:

Circulation was not constant. It wasn't simply dictated by the retailer's orders. The lion's share of Marvel's profits was generated by the ads. Some advertisers signed contracts based on a certain stipulated production number; X amount of ads circulating in the public's hands, so regardless if the retailer's estimated need was only 450,000, if an advertiser with a valued contract signed based on 600,000, that's what they printed. Now, this is also why there have been "warehouse" finds. If 450,000 of a periodical is shipped to distributors for retail, the 150,000 that are not wind up on pallets or shelves. That's also why there are a disproportionate amount of very high grade AS 45s compared to 46s.

Your posts contradict each other.

What am I missing here?

[Jeffro.]

21 minutes ago, James J Johnson said:

Yes. Circulation is what I'm referring to. The advertisers don't care anything about how the copies get printed, whether it's one, two, or two thousand runs of the press; they care about the end result. The circulation. I'm always curious about how the mind works. What would lead you to believe that I was referring to advertisers being concerned with the printing process itself? Is it just to be a contrarian? Or did I lead you to believe that in some way I was stating that there were advertisers touring the printer's facilities, counting print runs? Circulation is the issue for advertisers. The end result. The numbers. Not the printing process.

Can I ask how you know all this? I'm not in a position to contradict you (or confirm you) because I can't but I'd like to know the source of your knowledge.