Were the Harvey warehouse finds less abundant than we think?

[shrunkenhead]

Hey folks, a question I've been pondering...

 

We've all heard tell of the Harvey warehouse finds, and how there were sometimes as many as 200+ copies of pre-code titles found in VF or better, a stunning amount for golden age books. Because of these finds, many Harvey books have taken a dip in the marketplace, as so many titles are no longer considered "rare" by GA collectors.

 

However...

 

Where's the census numbers? Do a search under Witches Tales, for example.

In most cases you've only got 3 to 5 copies slabbing in VF or better. Sometimes 8.5 is the single highest graded copy. So where are all these books?

 

I know that the vast majority of GA collectors don't slab their books, but you'd think that dealers were sitting on this supposed stock would be slabbing them more often, taking them to shows, etc. In short, they should be appearing more frequently than they do. So what's up? Any thoughts?

 

Is a re-assesment of the comparative scarcity of 50's Harveybooks overdue?

[goldust40]

Every time a Black Cat 50 in CGC 9.2 / 9.4 appears on ebay (I admit this is an infrequent occurrence) the word amongst collectors is that a raft of file copies will subsequently emerge in the marketplace. However, despite four figure prices on such books, nothing has happened.

 

I suspect that there are a reasonable number of file copies sitting in collections (as you said) but the supply has been overestimated.

[shrunkenhead]

Yeah...I'm thinking that a lot of these "200+ VFs" were lazily graded and overhyped...probably a lot more VGs and such than were originally were led to believe...I could be wrong, but it just really seems that way to me. Harveys pop up somewhat frequently in highgrade on ebay, but at absolutely nowhere near the frequency of this supposed stock.

 

Maybe Harveydude has a take on this situation?

[the blob]

without actually knowing anything, judging from the condition of various [60s - 70s] warehouse finds that carbonaro has brought to shows in NYC (putting aside Cannon #1, which he had plenty of in 9.2/9/4+), I think your VG - Fine estimate is probably correct. The stuff looks good at quick glance and then defects on many pop up when you look closer. Being in a warehouse doesn't necessarily mean anyone was taking care of them.

[SignatureSelect]

I got some copies of Famous monsters recently that were from the warren warehouse find and honestly they look somewhere between vf+ and NM+

[the blob]

maybe you got the nice ones?

 

i remember when he had a bunch of those warrens at a show about 6 years ago. there were some nice ones, some not so nice ones, etc. wish i had grabbed more of those Eerie 2s for $5 a pop even if they were only mid-grade copies.

[shrunkenhead]

I got some copies of Famous monsters recently that were from the warren warehouse find and honestly they look somewhere between vf+ and NM+

 

Am I missing something? Wasn't referring to Warren mags, but the 50's Harvey horror books... were some of these found together with the warrens or something?

[Harvey Dude]

I really never heard of the numbers going for 200 since I suspect most copies of this title never went beyond 100 copies. Hard to get conclusive data for individual issues. Given the age and the warehouse storage conditions, the books will not rate high on the page quality scale though they do have a nice overall appearance. It has been a while since I looked at my stock but based on my records, I hold the following Witches Tales file copies (not a title I collect). When I purchased them, I thought they were all NM but after closer examination, I bet they fall in the VF - range.

 

WITCHES TALES 1 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 2 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 3 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 5 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 7 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 8 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 10 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 11 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

WITCHES TALES 26 HARVEY 0.10 FILE COPY

[Aman619]

arent most of the duplicates still sitting unsold in the Geppi "Indiana Jones" warehouse ? That would acount for their apparant scarcity. I believe an inventory was done to see exactly what he had in there a few years ago. And alot of books started appearing on the Diamond Galleries website.

[the blob]

"Am I missing something? Wasn't referring to Warren mags, but the 50's Harvey horror books... "

 

nah, we just went off on a tangent = warehouse doesn't necessarily mean all are particularly high grade. there was plenty of mid-grade stuff in the warren warehouse finds, although there was presumably HG stuff too. Koch has stuff in his warehouse for 30 years, unread, and it isn't all in such great shape and he's in the business of trying to keep his comics intact.

[Harvey Dude]

arent most of the duplicates still sitting unsold in the Geppi "Indiana Jones" warehouse ?

 

That would be possible but over the years the inventory was cherry picked. I wonder if they ever completed the inventory since that would have been a massive undertaking.

[precodekeith]

.....sometimes as many as 200+ copies of pre-code titles found in VF or better.... Because of these finds, many Harvey books have taken a dip in the marketplace.....

 

Very valid question about scarcity/value Shrunk, but I would like to point out a couple things...

 

1. The find was in the 1980's, & I am not of the opinion that a find from that long ago can account for any recent dip in the "market." We've known about them for twenty years at least. Also, the find NEVER had impact on the Overstreet guide, as they never "lowered" or "adjusted" their pricing to reflect the find. I would see any recent dip in Harvey prices as simply a continuation of the FMV cool down from the late 1990's PCH speculator boom.

 

2. I've heard reports of UP TO 200 copies for SOME issues, but not exceeding 200. The low end was said to be approximately 40 copies/issue. I would like to see a list of the issues found, but I have not heard of one to date. I don't think any supposed GA stock of say (low end) 40 copies would be tough to absorb into the collecting community over a twenty year span. (we talked about this long ago, so if I myself stated 200+ I do apologize, I can see where that is an easy figure to misquote.)

 

3. The warehouse books appear to have great cover gloss, but some page tanning on the edges. Grade range on these does vary from Fine to Nm, with most being a conservative Fine from the ones I've seen. I admit, I've only seen a few myself.

 

4. Most importantly - and I know you aren't making this mistake- "warehouse" copies ARE NOT to be confused with Harvey "file copies," which ARE generally in better grade & harder to come by.

 

5. So, should we reassess the Harvey "market?" Sure, why not?! IMO the books are COMMON compared to other PCH titles out there, especially in grades over VG (in comparison to others, mind you.). Easy to complete runs for the most part. Overstreet? Try Over-Priced! Let the cooling continue!

[*paull*]

And I think that the only reasons that Black Cat #50, Witches Tales #25 and Tomb of Terror #15 seem a little less common is because of demand. There are a lot of these books out there. I have seen at least three ultra high-grade copies of BCM #50 up for sale in the past year.

[shrunkenhead]

 

Great post, Keith. Of course, you're right about the find being very old news, so any recent dips in the market can't be caused by those warehouse finds. But I guess what I'm curious about is whether or not the CGC census helps us re-evaluate the worth of the finds, as they're don't seem to be all that many highgrade (8.0 or better) copies cropping up on the census. In some cases you get 6 to 9 copies, which is a lot more than other PCH books, but hardly a flood of books.

 

I was under the impression that OS did adjust their prices due to the warehouse finds (or at least raised their prices less aggressively). I could be wrong about this, but I remember reading Overstreet's report in the guide a couple of years ago about Harvey and Dell warehouse finds and how HG books from those companies should be viewed as less scarce. I would think his own assessment would have accounted for some lowering in guide prices, but we may just have a contradiction in the guide here.