Hierarchy of Golden Age Comics (2018 Edition) 0

[Cat-Man_America]

Well, I tend to have a slightly more contrarian view of lists weighed heavily on the D.C. side of the ledger.  In fairness to D.C. the superhero genre started with the fortuitous publishing of Superman as the lead character in Action Comics and was followed up with an excellent darker themed costumed character, The Bat-Man, in Detective Comics (almost a year later) who was not super-powered and captured younger imaginations as did his pulp-era predecessors The Shadow and The Spider did with adult audiences.

But by the time Bat-Man was hitting his stride in late 1939 the world had changed.  Superheroes were everywhere, introduced by fledgling publishers trying to parrot the success of DC's thriving new market.  Timely did it well by coming forward in Oct. '39 with two hit heroes in their first comic book publication Marvel Comics (Marvel Mystery Comics with issue #2).  Neither The Human Torch nor Sub-Mariner displays any direct inspiration from DC's characters.  Interestingly, these have yet to make their mark as Marvel Universe characters, but if and when that happens, I expect Marvel Mystery to move way up on some lists.

Wonder Woman should be higher on comic popularity lists, but these things take time.  Media success suggests this is likely to happen sooner rather than later. Wonder Woman was developed by a renowned psychologist with the cooperation of D.C. Management.  As with Superman and Bat-Man, this was a first.  While emulated by some publishers, it didn't usher in a legion of popular female characters.  Timely's best effort was a cool costumed female hero by the name Miss Fury, who was unique as having been created and illustrated ...first as a newspaper strip... by a woman, Tarpé Mills.  Unfortunately, this character didn't have anywhere near the success of Wonder Woman, so she's mostly forgotten today.

Over time, historical significance usually takes a back seat to film popularity.  For instance, turning to other comics, Blackhawk ...with a Spielberg film in the works... could shake things up a bit on the GA popularity list.  Of course this is a D.C. property, but for comic collectors and investment speculators this will likely extend to the character's ...and supporting character's... early origins in Quality Comics.  

As the Marvel Universe tends to be centered around SA and modern characters, most Timely GA heroes may get short shrift, but the huge success of Marvel properties will very likely extend to heritage characters as well in respect to collecting and investment values.  

The confusing Captain Marvel/SHAZAM conundrum is likely to muddy the waters somewhat, but could embellish the popularity of Fawcett's original character.  While I won't prophesi any quantum shift in these listings based on Bob Overstreet's appraisal of book values and sales, there are some changes due and it will be interesting to see where things end up in two to five years.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Cat-Man_America
More words! ;0)

[pemart1966]

12 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Oct. copies vs. Nov. copies is basically first print vs. second print and, yes, I think a lot of folks prefer first prints.  But, 

 

I'd drop Action 7 and D 31 out of the top 10 unless the point of the list is heavily weighted to FMV (which you seem to weigh twice by also using the amorphous "desirability" as a criteria) as neither tick as many boxes in your criteria as books below them.  Heck, I'd rank D33 over D31, but both out of the top 10.  Action 10 and 13 are likewise far too highly ranked given your stated criteria, and should not be above books like AS 8, Flash 1, D 33, MF 52.  In short, I think you are giving short shrift to the following criteria you cite:

* historical significance

* nostalgia

* how books were viewed during different periods of time

* connections to both past and present

* interior content

 

 

I don't know what the definition of "nostalgia" is in this case but I'd venture to say that virtually no one on these boards was alive, let alone bought any of these books off of the stands, when they came out.  

Edited July 26, 2018 by pemart1966

[valiantman]

I'm a fan of New York World's Fair 1939, since it's the 1st Sandman, has a pre-Superman #1 story for Superman, and has the novelty of Superman being so unknown the cover colorist figured he must be blond... not to mention the global appeal of the 1939 NY World's Fair.

Edited July 26, 2018 by valiantman

[Wayne-Tec]

9 hours ago, jhm said:

Great list. Thank you for sharing!

GA collecting is such a fun hobby for me, because so many of us have different focal points.

I get such a charge out of the wide variety of cover art from the golden age. That's where I'm rooted in the hobby. So my hierarchy would look so different that I wouldn't want to diverge the thread. But I'll definitely be enjoying the conversation 

Any list, no matter how different, is welcome. 

[Wayne-Tec]

5 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I agree with this as GA Green Lantern and GA Flash are not the beloved versions that are loved by millions of fans now.

Ask anybody who the Flash or Green Lantern are and the vast majority would say

Barry Allen or Wally West for Flash. 

Hal Jordan or John Stewart for Green Lantern.

Heck, even Kyle Rayner would get more votes as the Green Lantern than Alan Scott.

I see AA #16 much down on the list going forward. 

While Scott and Garrick are not the beloved versions of Green Lantern and Flash, I think it's fair to point out how different Batman and Superman are now vs. how they appeared in Tec #27 and Action #1...and take note of the fact that we don't hold that against those books at all.

"A fitting ending for his kind" is very removed from the Batman we know today. If Batman had his "one rule" in the early GA books, I don't think that would add much value to them. So while we embrace and appreciate all of the similarities retained from the GA, we don't seem to mind the many changes either. That logic, to a degree, can be applied to AA #16 and Flash #1.

[Wayne-Tec]

5 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think as the hobby continues to grow these will start to be different prices. Why there has been not much difference in prices is the majority of the hobby does not know there are different versions. Once it has become established there are different version than there will be different prices.

This will become a huge factor down the road. Kind of like with Walking Dead #1 where there is a black label and a white label first print of the issue. At first no one cared, but now there is a price difference.

I agree with most of the above, I'm just uncertain as to how much of a factor it will be. I'd prefer an OCT copy over a NOV copy, and would be willing to pay a premium. But that doesn't mean that I view the latter as a "reprint" or anything more than the same exact book printed on the same exact printing presses shortly after.

[Wayne-Tec]

2 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

I don't know what the definition of "nostalgia" is in this case but I'd venture to say that virtually no one on these boards was alive, let alone bought any of these books off of the stands, when they came out.  

For me, it's my feelings associated with these books as I've experienced during my time as a collector. Nope, not old enough to have picked up them up off of the newsstand, but I've known about and admired many of these GA books long before I had the opportunity to own some of them.

[N e r V]

If it was a top DC list I think it’d would work better for me with 26 of the 30 on that list from them and only 3 Marvel and 1 Fawcett book making it. Maybe I don’t get the process but out of 30 books I’m pretty sure I’d have more than 3 Marvels on any list and leaving Archie and some other publishers locked out seems a shame.

 

I think a historical list is possible with rankings and a popularity with collectors list probably goes hand in hand with a books value anyway. Otherwise I’m not seeing or understanding the rankings on the list with the exception of it being a somewhat random choice of personal favorites.

 

Not trying to be insulting either since I find the list interesting just not sure what it’s supposed to represent as to current collecting.

[N e r V]

12 hours ago, pemart1966 said:

I don't know what the definition of "nostalgia" is in this case but I'd venture to say that virtually no one on these boards was alive, let alone bought any of these books off of the stands, when they came out.  

 No longer alive today but I did have family buying comics around the mid to early 1940’s. My grandmother bought Sensation Comics #1 off the newsstand which has always been a shared nostalgia for me with that book. I think you’re right in that buying a comic at the time off the newsstands is one form of nostalgia but I also have another type of nostalgia in that when I first saw and obtained certain back issues published before my buying years. 

[G.A.tor]

19 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:

I think as the hobby continues to grow these will start to be different prices. Why there has been not much difference in prices is the majority of the hobby does not know there are different versions. Once it has become established there are different versions than there will be different prices.

This will become a huge factor down the road. Kind of like with Walking Dead #1 where there is a black label and a white label first print of the issue. At first no one cared, but now there is a price difference.

I’m of the opinion that folks that are buying superman and Batman 1s etc at today’s prices wont be affected by which “version” they have and that there won’t be any price differential moving forward, anymore than there is today or was yesterday. 

Marvel 1 has, believe it or not, always differentiated between the oct and nov copies. But when only a handful of oct copies exist in the market over, say decades, that differential goes unnoticed 

[pemart1966]

2 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

I’m of the opinion that folks that are buying superman and Batman 1s etc at today’s prices wont be affected by which “version” they have and that there won’t be any price differential moving forward, anymore than there is today or was yesterday. 

Marvel 1 has, believe it or not, always differentiated between the oct and nov copies. But when only a handful of oct copies exist in the market over, say decades, that differential goes unnoticed 

I would expect the opposite - that a handful of of October copies in the market would lead to a differential not an unnoticed differential.

[G.A.tor]

15 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

I would expect the opposite - that a handful of of October copies in the market would lead to a differential not an unnoticed differential.

Oh, They do sell for more and in my experience are absolutely preferred to the nov copy. My point is when sales are so infrequent there are  really no comparables to make because not enough data can be analyzed over a like period. So it goes “unnoticed” due to lack of data points. 

[pemart1966]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

Oh, They do sell for more and in my experience are absolutely preferred to the nov copy. My point is when sales are so infrequent there are  really no comparables to make because not enough data can be analyzed over a like period. So it goes “unnoticed” due to lack of data points. 

I don't know anything about data points but my original point still stands - there are enough of a recognizable differences/distinctions between the two versions of Marvel Comics #1 that if it were my list, I'd be listing them separately - with the October dated version first. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by pemart1966

[N e r V]

56 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

I don't know anything about data points but my original point still stands - there are enough of a recognizable differences/distinctions between the two versions of Marvel Comics #1 that if it were my list, I'd be listing them separately - with the October dated version first. 

Not to speak for anyone but I think Gators point was simply October dates are preferred if available but they rarely come up for sale vs November dates so most of the time Marvel #1 Buyers don’t have a choice. October dates clearly carry a premium. Marvel #1 is special in that respect vs something like the dots, no dots of Batman #1 which no one can say which came first and really it’s such a small thing most collectors don’t care about unlike the Marvel #1 dates which do matter if a choice is involved.

 

To your point I would agree that both deserve separate listings too however since that list only carries 3 Marvels space seems to be limited for Timelys...

Edited July 27, 2018 by N e r V

[Chicago Boy]

1 hour ago, pemart1966 said:

I don't know anything about data points but my original point still stands - there are enough of a recognizable differences/distinctions between the two versions of Marvel Comics #1 that if it were my list, I'd be listing them separately - with the October dated version first. 

Bats 1. MC 1 and Supes 1 are always in the discussion of mega keys with more than 1 printing. Any others ? 

[jimbo_7071]

The list isn't bad; personally I'd rank Marvel #1 a little lower, and I'd rank All-American #16, Flash #1, MF #52, and Whiz #2 much lower.

Edited July 27, 2018 by jimbo_7071

[TheSurgeon]

2 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

The list isn't bad; personally I'd rank Marvel #1 a little lower, and I'd rank All-American #16, Flash #1, MF #52, and Whiz #2 much lower.

I would would rank those books very high since we all know those stories. I would say most comic collectors know the stories in those books, compared to books like action 7, Tech 31, MF 73. I can recognize those covers, and I know MF 73 has 1st appearances, but I still don't know those stories. I have known the stories of the former comics since as long as I have collected.  I think the interior story content of AA 16, Flash 1, MF 52 and Whiz 2 elevates them to the highest tier of GA comics (along with of course Action 1, Det 27.) 

[Wayne-Tec]

1 hour ago, TheSurgeon said:

I would would rank those books very high since we all know those stories. I would say most comic collectors know the stories in those books, compared to books like action 7, Tech 31, MF 73. I can recognize those covers, and I know MF 73 has 1st appearances, but I still don't know those stories. I have known the stories of the former comics since as long as I have collected.  I think the interior story content of AA 16, Flash 1, MF 52 and Whiz 2 elevates them to the highest tier of GA comics (along with of course Action 1, Det 27.) 

Generally speaking, those who spend thousands and thousands of dollars on books they haven’t even read via reprint still amazes me. It’s more common than you would think.

[Wayne-Tec]

13 hours ago, N e r V said:

If it was a top DC list I think it’d would work better for me with 26 of the 30 on that list from them and only 3 Marvel and 1 Fawcett book making it. Maybe I don’t get the process but out of 30 books I’m pretty sure I’d have more than 3 Marvels on any list and leaving Archie and some other publishers locked out seems a shame.

I think a historical list is possible with rankings and a popularity with collectors list probably goes hand in hand with a books value anyway. Otherwise I’m not seeing or understanding the rankings on the list with the exception of it being a somewhat random choice of personal favorites.

Not trying to be insulting either since I find the list interesting just not sure what it’s supposed to represent as to current collecting.

I’d love to see your list. As previously stated, there’s no right or wrong here. As for mine, it wasn’t random, nor was it a list of my “favorites.” Batman #1 is my all-time favorite comic book, but it’s not No. 1 on my list.

I’m in the process of brainstorming a revision that places greater emphasis on historical significance. Ranking Tec #31 ahead of Tec #33 wasn’t the best choice. But I do believe books like Tec #31 and Action #7 hold more significance than meets the eye. How to weigh that vs. the greatness of other books is a challenge.

My list could include more Timely’s, but DC had greater depth of roster. I’m also a DC/Timely-centric collector, so I left many other books off my personal list.

[N e r V]

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective comics #27

3. Marvel comics #1 (oct. date)

4. Superman #1

5. Marvel comics #1 (nov. date)

6. Batman #1

7. Captain America #1

8. Detective comics #31

9. Action comics #10

10.  Pep comics #22

11.  Whiz comics #2

12. Flash comics #1

13. All Star #8

14. All American #16

15.  Action comics #10

16. Detective comics #29

17. Suspense comics #3

18. Fantastic comics #3

19. More fun #52

20. Detective comics #33

21. Action comics #13

22. Archie comics #1

23. Detective comics #38

24. Sensation comics #1 

25. Action Comics #2

26. Detective comics #28

27. All Star comics #3

28. Wonder Woman #1

29. Captain America #3

30. Marvel Mystery #9

 

So that’s my quickly assembled list for anyone else to poo poo on. Still heavy on DC as it probably should be but with more Marvel and others added to the mix.