how to approach a dealer about books I think might be overpriced. 6 6

[RockMyAmadeus]

I've said this to many people over the years...if I can buy (virtually) the same thing from another source for a lower price...obviously, without it needing to be said that all factors should be taken into consideration...then why am I going to pay you a higher price? Doesn't make any sense. 

I've bought from, perhaps, 10 different dealers in the last 10+ years. I functionally only buy from a single dealer, to our mutual benefit, and have done a lot of business over the years with that dealer. I buy dribs and drabs here and there from others, mainly because I like them and want to support them in some small, token way. 

But 95%+ of my business has gone to a single dealer, because the vast majority of other dealers want to run museums...not sell books. Just as they don't want to be offended by "low balls"...and justifiably so!...so, too, do I not want to have my time wasted by prices that are dreamland. It's to the point now that I don't even look at most dealer inventory, unless something catches my eye on display, which is rare. And I am perfectly willing to pay what consensus would classify as "FMV" (qualified because there will always be scoffers.) If a book sells for ~$350 on a consistent basis, I'm willing to pay~$350...not $125.

As an example...I found a Raphael #1 CGC 9.2 at a dealer's table in Phoenix last month. I thought it 1. might be upgradeable (maybe 10-15%), and 2. would be great to get signed by Eastman. I was informed by the (absent) seller through the worker at the table that it was a "special book" to him. That's the kiss of death. I never, ever want to buy books that are "special" to anyone, because they're both far less likely to negotiate, and will likely resent the attempt. The best price he would do was $250. The 90 day average was $150, as was the 12 month. It's not a rare book, and it's not in a rare grade. I thanked them for letting me look at the book, and moved along. Didn't try to argue, didn't point out GPA, nothing. No point in paying a 30-66% premium for a common book in a common grade that is special to someone.

It's a seller's market right now, and buyers should respect that....and sellers should enjoy the run as long as it lasts.

 

[Unstoppablejayd]

1 minute ago, blazingbob said:

I wasn't at the last December show.  I generally don't do 1 days shows anymore.  Have never done shows on Long Island.  Too much work when I can sit home and sell the same amount drinking coffee.

Sounds fair- let me know when you do the next one locallishly I would love to check out your stuff and haggle a bit!

[Krismusic]

5 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

So a seller could have a couple of books you want that are overpriced and may have great deals on others and you walk past?

My prices are snapshots on when I graded/priced them.

I do not constantly update pricing on the books nor do I have the time to do it.  The auction that ended last week does not result in me updating my pricing online.  Many seem to feel that comic book pricing should work like the stock market,  constant bid and asks 24X7,  7 days a week

There are also books that you may feel that I'm overpriced on yet was in a deal I have long gotten my cost out of.  For a simple conversation you might find a deal on a book I have no cost into.

But as many of you seem to be posting you assume a lot.

To answer this no I wouldn't walk past I would only walk past if I don't see anything I want and if the ones I want are really overpriced I will browse through sometimes but there's usually only so much time to browse at a Con and I usually have other people with me that want to do other things that are going on at the Con. So I was just trying to explain my thought process of when I stop at a booth and it is if I see something I like and its cheap I will stop if its something I like or want and if its overpriced why would I stop by; and if I miss a deal I miss the deal only have so much time at a con I feel its up to the dealer to entice people to come to their booths over the other dealers. One way is with a deal or fairly priced stuff on their display wall etc.. as everyone collects differently and is interested in different things. I mean your a sales person you can have a mixture of high and low and that's probably cool and will work in most cases but I wont know the prices on every single book out there and if you have book I want and you have is over priced and the other stuff is cheap, but I don't know it is, well I can't really know that it is a deal. Dealers have to find their price points to attract customers, etc.. as there could be another dealer around the corner who can have the book I want at a better price obviously human nature is go for the cheaper thing.

Selling is a complex thing for dealers I respect that they can price stuff high or low or medium its up to them, but they have to keep in mind not everyone's going to have time to stop and look for deals a lot of people I know and heard from usually browse wall book prices they look at books they bought previously and see what you are asking for them make a judgement call whether they want to stop and take a look through your stuff or to check the other guy.

[Artboy99]

sure is an interesting topic with lots of discussion.

From a buyer's perspective:

1. I don't care what price the seller has on the book, they can sell it for whatever they want, it doesn't mean I am going to pay the asking price. 

2. The art of negotiation. This seems like a lost art, and many of you posting that you will "walk past" should stop and make an offer especially if it is a book you like. You never know.

3. Keep negativity to yourself

4. If I point out a major defect that should result in a price correction but we disagree on the price that is fine. Please don't put the book back on the wall looking for a sucker. Trust that I will tell everyone I know to avoid your booth. ( Yes I am talking to you seller of that Hulk 181 with the swapped in Hulk 179 Marvel Value Stamp Page....so ridiculous)

From a seller's perspective:

1. Lowball if you like, but if I refuse please refrain from your negativity on the decision.

2. Yes my book might very likely be above current GPA. Is the book a major key like Hulk 181? Who knows what I had to pay for it and maybe GPA has dropped since I bought it. I do 12-15 shows a year and possibly might sell it at another show or more likely the market will increase again and I can sell it at a profit. I have no problem being patient.

3. If you ask me to set a book aside, my expectations are that you are going to return and buy it. If you did not ask about the price before setting it aside I also expect when you buy it the payment is full asking. *asking me to set aside a book and then returning at end of show and then lowballing = I will never deal with you again.

4. as the seller I expect that you as a buyer have some knowledge of what you are trying to buy ( after all, why do you want it then? ) If you do not know, I actually have no problem educating you, but please bear in mind there are other customers at the booth, so my time is valuable. 

5. Be respectful of the merchandise! Do not let your 5 year old pick up books. Don't pick up books without asking. Don't jam books back into boxes; if you do expect that I will come take the books out of your hands and tell you to leave my booth.

A Comment: I highly recommend every buyer at comic conventions try being a seller. Even one show will be enough. Paying the show organizer money to setup, the preparation time of pricing, bagging and boarding, organizing the comics, the load in and setup, working the show the entire day, then packing up and hauling it all back home. Some single day shows just the day of the show is a 12-15+ hour day. You never know what is going to sell or even if people will show up. I once did a local show that the organizer decided to put on Mother's Day. The worst show I have ever done, and I sold $20 worth of comics. Even then, no I don't need to sell you my copy of ASM 129 at 50% below GPA.

[RockMyAmadeus]

By the way...the dealer that I buy from is about as effective a negotiator as any I've seen. It's fantastic watching him work, and I've learned a hell of a lot from him.

For example...when someone offers an offensively low price, he doesn't get upset or turn cold...he says "I wouldn't be able to do that for that book..." and then often immediately says "...but I have this copy/other book that might be something you're interested in." He pivots to make the sale, whenever and wherever he can, offering people alternatives that very frequently results in sales. He's open...and prepared...to work with buyers any way he can. He gives buyers...even the habitual lowballers...options, so they aren't made to feel like they've done something wrong. If people are being turned away, it's only because he just doesn't have exactly what they're looking for, and they didn't want anything else.

There's nothing worse to an earnest buyer than being made to feel like he or she has done something wrong and/or offended a seller. "Earnest" being the key word, there. You do that to a potential buyer, and you'll never see them again. Do it badly enough, and you may get negative press you didn't want or need.

[Bird]

59 minutes ago, blazingbob said:

So a seller could have a couple of books you want that are overpriced and may have great deals on others and you walk past?

 

I would likely walk past but make a mental note, or even a written one, that those books I wanted were there. I would check out the rest of the con and see what is what and perhaps return. I like Dr Strange 169, so I can afford to be picky on which copies I buy. But I also like Masters Comics and Captain Marvel Jr so I might return more likely than not if you have those once I see what else is available at a show. As a buyer I have a pile of money in my pocket and that money can go towards any number of books, not just one issue. So it is not only what you are selling and at what price but what else in my wheelhouse is available in the room.

For instance I will be going to @Golden Memories booth on Saturday to look at the Masters and CMjr in his photos but if one of those Startling Stories hits me I may get one of those instead. Or I may get a few or I may get none. I myself go in with low expectations and do not mind going home with my money but if something hits me I will pay for it, often even if it is a bit higher than I expected.

[Krismusic]

51 minutes ago, Bird said:

I would likely walk past but make a mental note, or even a written one, that those books I wanted were there. I would check out the rest of the con and see what is what and perhaps return. I like Dr Strange 169, so I can afford to be picky on which copies I buy. But I also like Masters Comics and Captain Marvel Jr so I might return more likely than not if you have those once I see what else is available at a show. As a buyer I have a pile of money in my pocket and that money can go towards any number of books, not just one issue. So it is not only what you are selling and at what price but what else in my wheelhouse is available in the room.

For instance I will be going to @Golden Memories booth on Saturday to look at the Masters and CMjr in his photos but if one of those Startling Stories hits me I may get one of those instead. Or I may get a few or I may get none. I myself go in with low expectations and do not mind going home with my money but if something hits me I will pay for it, often even if it is a bit higher than I expected.

I agree with this and sometimes do the same thing, how well my memory works for remembering that price later well that's a gamble sometimes specially at large Cons, so this lends to the point why waste my time and add fact that I might insult the seller with my offer when I can walk around and see what else is around the area or go home with my money as someone has mentioned. So walking away I see it as no harm no foul. Yea if its something I really want I might try to throw an offer out but if its crazy expensive I know that we probably wont land in an area where we would both be happy so that's also a reason why I would walk past for overpriced stuff and when referring to overpriced I mean like a lot over priced like 40% over for example. I mean if its 5% -10% over priced maybe I'll take a look or a shot to negotiate etc.. but if your really overpriced you obviously want more than I would be will to pay or settle down for. 

[the blob]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I've said this to many people over the years...if I can buy (virtually) the same thing from another source for a lower price...obviously, without it needing to be said that all factors should be taken into consideration...then why am I going to pay you a higher price? Doesn't make any sense. 

I've bought from, perhaps, 10 different dealers in the last 10+ years. I functionally only buy from a single dealer, to our mutual benefit, and have done a lot of business over the years with that dealer. I buy dribs and drabs here and there from others, mainly because I like them and want to support them in some small, token way. 

But 95%+ of my business has gone to a single dealer, because the vast majority of other dealers want to run museums...not sell books. Just as they don't want to be offended by "low balls"...and justifiably so!...so, too, do I not want to have my time wasted by prices that are dreamland. It's to the point now that I don't even look at most dealer inventory, unless something catches my eye on display, which is rare. And I am perfectly willing to pay what consensus would classify as "FMV" (qualified because there will always be scoffers.) If a book sells for ~$350 on a consistent basis, I'm willing to pay~$350...not $125.

As an example...I found a Raphael #1 CGC 9.2 at a dealer's table in Phoenix last month. I thought it 1. might be upgradeable (maybe 10-15%), and 2. would be great to get signed by Eastman. I was informed by the (absent) seller through the worker at the table that it was a "special book" to him. That's the kiss of death. I never, ever want to buy books that are "special" to anyone, because they're both far less likely to negotiate, and will likely resent the attempt. The best price he would do was $250. The 90 day average was $150, as was the 12 month. It's not a rare book, and it's not in a rare grade. I thanked them for letting me look at the book, and moved along. Didn't try to argue, didn't point out GPA, nothing. No point in paying a 30-66% premium for a common book in a common grade that is special to someone.

It's a seller's market right now, and buyers should respect that....and sellers should enjoy the run as long as it lasts.

 

I have a bunch of Raphel 1s that could definitely use a press. Dunno where it might get them, but they all got bent at the same spot because they were too big and popped out above all the other books. I did not mind getting them 3 for $2 though. Sell them for $35-$45 every time I put one up. I can't believe my shop didn't know what they were.

 

[the blob]

All this con talk is getting me antsy. Haven't been to one since 2017. Not that it is such a great buying con, but I really hope my free pass connection for NYCC has some juice this year (he missed last year) and I hope I'm not broke in October. I know, I should probably just go to a small NJ show. Probably better buying opportunities.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3 minutes ago, the blob said:

I have a bunch of Raphel 1s that could definitely use a press. Dunno where it might get them, but they all got bent at the same spot because they were too big and popped out above all the other books. I did not mind getting them 3 for $2 though. Sell them for $35-$45 every time I put one up. I can't believe my shop didn't know what they were.

 

Yeah, Raph #1s and TMNT #4s were especially tall, like Warrior Magazine, and ended up getting smooshed over.a lot.

[kav]

6 hours ago, Golden Memories said:

Rule 5 : Don't wave your money in my face, I've seen Money before, and I'm Not Impressed, Its a childish tactic 

[Bookery]

58 minutes ago, kav said:

7 hours ago, Golden Memories said:

"Rule 5 : Don't wave your money in my face, I've seen Money before, and I'm Not Impressed, Its a childish tactic."

 

You're lucky.  I own a brick and mortar operation.  I've seen pictures of money on TV of course... but not sure what it looks like up close and in person...

 

 

[kav]

2 minutes ago, Bookery said:

7 hours ago, Golden Memories said:

"Rule 5 : Don't wave your money in my face, I've seen Money before, and I'm Not Impressed, Its a childish tactic."

 

You're lucky.  I own a brick and mortar operation.  I've seen pictures of money on TV of course... but not sure what it looks like up close and in person...

 

 

If buyer waves money in dealer face dealer should merely wave the comic back in their face!!!   

[Aweandlorder]

how to approach a dealer about books I think might be overpriced

[Bookery]

5 minutes ago, kav said:

If buyer waves money in dealer face dealer should merely wave the comic back in their face!!!   

I've never understood why folks think that money is the "bigger man" in a transaction.  Money is just a way of facilitating trade.  My comic might be "worth" 3 live chickens... but if I don't need 3 live chickens, we're not going to make a trade.  Money is just a universal-trade certificate.  And in fact... no matter how abundant a comic book is... it's still technically a lot rarer than money.  Money is everywhere.  My 9.4 silver-age key is not everywhere.  If anybody should be smug about a transaction (not that one should be) it should be the person holding the collectible.  Money is only valuable to someone if it's more useful than what they possess.  Ideally, all transactions should make both parties happy.

Money does have its place, however.  I did once accept magic beans for a Showcase #22.  Don't know what I was thinking.  Frustrated, I tossed them in the back yard, and I've been paying through the nose for TruGreen treatments ever since.

[kav]

4 minutes ago, Bookery said:

I've never understood why folks think that money is the "bigger man" in a transaction.  Money is just a way of facilitating trade.  My comic might be "worth" 3 live chickens... but if I don't need 3 live chickens, we're not going to make a trade.  Money is just a universal-trade certificate.  And in fact... no matter how abundant a comic book is... it's still technically a lot rarer than money.  Money is everywhere.  My 9.4 silver-age key is not everywhere.  If anybody should be smug about a transaction (not that one should be) it should be the person holding the collectible.  Money is only valuable to someone if it's more useful than what they possess.  Ideally, all transactions should make both parties happy.

Money does have its place, however.  I did once accept magic beans for a Showcase #22.  Don't know what I was thinking.  Frustrated, I tossed them in the back yard, and I've been paying through the nose for TruGreen treatments ever since.

Dealer should respond to money waving by bolting erect, screaming MONEY!!!  OMG HE HAS MONEY!!!!!!  then run screaming and waving hands thru convention area-

[RCheli]

I've read this whole thread, and the one point that really gets to me is that the OP thought the books were overpriced. Where did he get that? From Overstreet? Ebay? PCH prices are going through the roof, and the price that was listed may very well be what current FMV is, but that could've escalated significantly even in the past year. At a show a couple of months ago, a guy set up who hadn't done anything in a couple of years and all his PCH was snatched up by a dealer at close to current guide prices because these books can sell consistently well at multiples of Overstreet. 

I am always more than happy to deal at shows, but there are a ton of factors. These include how much I paid for the book(s), how long I've had it for sale, whether it's hot or not, how the person is paying, how much they're buying, if they've bought from me in the past, and how much the offer from the buyer is.

[Artboy99]

1 hour ago, Bookery said:

7 hours ago, Golden Memories said:

"Rule 5 : Don't wave your money in my face, I've seen Money before, and I'm Not Impressed, Its a childish tactic."

 

You're lucky.  I own a brick and mortar operation.  I've seen pictures of money on TV of course... but not sure what it looks like up close and in person...

 

 

Had a Hulk 181 CGC 7.0 in my booth for $4500 CDN ( very close to GPA ) and had a guy trying to buy it. He offered $3000. I politely declined and he walked away cursing under his breath.

15 minutes later he came back waiving the cash in his hand: "$3200 CASH right now!" Turns out it is his "grail book" or whatever story he ws trying to spin to get me to sell it. No thanks, I don't need to take 30% off the price to sell a Hulk 181.

I point to the Hulk 181 CGC 4.0 on my wall for $3000 and tell him he has enough to buy that one. He walked off angry.

[RockMyAmadeus]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

Had a Hulk 181 CGC 7.0 in my booth for $4500 CDN ( very close to GPA ) and had a guy trying to buy it. He offered $3000. I politely declined and he walked away cursing under his breath.

15 minutes later he came back waiving the cash in his hand: "$3200 CASH right now!" Turns out it is his "grail book" or whatever story he ws trying to spin to get me to sell it. No thanks, I don't need to take 30% off the price to sell a Hulk 181.

I point to the Hulk 181 CGC 4.0 on my wall for $3000 and tell him he has enough to buy that one. He walked off angry.

With a completely straight face, I would have said the following:

"I think you should save your money. Time machines aren't cheap."

[kav]

1 hour ago, Artboy99 said:

Had a Hulk 181 CGC 7.0 in my booth for $4500 CDN ( very close to GPA ) and had a guy trying to buy it. He offered $3000. I politely declined and he walked away cursing under his breath.

15 minutes later he came back waiving the cash in his hand: "$3200 CASH right now!" Turns out it is his "grail book" or whatever story he ws trying to spin to get me to sell it. No thanks, I don't need to take 30% off the price to sell a Hulk 181.

I point to the Hulk 181 CGC 4.0 on my wall for $3000 and tell him he has enough to buy that one. He walked off angry.

"Sir I am quite certain I will sell that book for $4500.  WHY would I take $3200?  Come on sir you have to understand the logic here-"

(If I needed a kidney RIGHT NOW and it cost $3200, and I didnt have it, your offer would make sense.  Right now it makes no sense)