SUPERMAN 4 VS ACTION COMICS 23 3 3

[N e r V]

11 minutes ago, woowoo said:

This shows that this was meant to hit newsstands first. Superman 4 it says we meet again. I would say Action 23 was meant to hit first than Superman 4 would have been his 2nd app as the story goes.

I think it is possible that Action 23 and superman 4 hit the first block of the Publisher's  neighborhood 1st and the rest of the world had to wait 8 days.

I think when you load a truck with Action 23 first than put Superman 4 after that the Superman 4 would be the first to leave the truck so they unloaded all the Sups first than on the way back with the truck more empty put Action 23 out.

 

 

I need a drink....

[woowoo]

6 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Where have you seen even a suggestion that they had the same release date?

Who cares on release date.  No body really does know.The intent was Action 23 first than Superman 4 Those are a fact when you read both books right.

[woowoo]

1 minute ago, N e r V said:

 

 

I need a drink....

I will pay

[Lazyboy]

2 minutes ago, woowoo said:

Who cares on release date.  No body really does know.The intent was Action 23 first than Superman 4 Those are a fact when you read both books right.

The story in Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars 8 takes place before the story in Amazing Spider-Man 252. So what? Only the release date determines a first appearance.

[woowoo]

3 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

The story in Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars 8 takes place before the story in Amazing Spider-Man 252. So what? Only the release date determines a first appearance.

I am on the Superman 4 as first app on the newsstand 100%. After that I don't  I read for years that Superman hit first than Action 23 Should Sup 4 be his first App I say yes even tho he says we meet again on Superman 4 intent or not Superman 4 was the first time people read Lex L.

[Comicdey]

6 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

The story in Marvel Super-Heroes Secret Wars 8 takes place before the story in Amazing Spider-Man 252. So what? Only the release date determines a first appearance.

This really messes up my continuity thoughts on Star Wars characters and movies 🎥 

[G.A.tor]

Anyone collecting today has to acknowledge that action 23 was intended to be lex’s first appearance. There is enough accepted information pointing to such (it was written as first, copyright was presumably filed first etc) and was likely even sent to printers first (that would be in line with how publishing occurred then)  

Might have been released a week later, might not have  , we truly don’t know  , nor would I think there is a definitive way to prove 

applying todays release criteria to books released almost 80years age seems a stretch. There honestly is no way to 100% confirm what book was on what stand when. But we do know what was written first and copyright filed first, right?

seems to me a lot to do about nothing but I have no real interest beyond it being an interesting footnote   

[Joshua33]

6 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Anyone collecting today has to acknowledge that action 23 was intended to be lex’s first appearance. There is enough accepted information pointing to such (it was written as first, copyright was presumably filed first etc) and was likely even sent to printers first (that would be in line with how publishing occurred then)  

Might have been released a week later, might not have  , we truly don’t know  , nor would I think there is a definitive way to prove 

applying todays release criteria to books released almost 80years age seems a stretch. There honestly is no way to 100% confirm what book was on what stand when. But we do know what was written first and copyright filed first, right?

seems to me a lot to do about nothing but I have no real interest beyond it being an interesting footnote   

I wouldn't rule out us being able to prove Superman 4 hit newsstands first. I'll be working on that...

Will it change his first appearance in the eyes of collectors? No, probably not. But it will show that Superman 4 was available to the public first.

[Rip]

This debate isn't the first time. I thought I remembered reading an article somewhere about this around 20 years years ago. Maybe in the Overstreet monthly or something. I'm sure there is a Sups 4 with a arrival date somewhere. Either way I think Action 23 is the book regardless if Sups 4 beat it by a week. See Gambit.

BTW The arrival date posted earlier seems to match perfectly.

 

 

Ah here's Mark who also has some good insight. You are likely correct on the date.

"Superman was a quarterly publication in those early days and issue #4 was a Spring issue, released to the newsstands in early February of 1940. Superman issues were on the stands between the first and second week of the month and would be available for sale for three months, so this was a very time sensitive situation as the cover boldly stated SPRING ISSUE. Action Comics was a monthly publication and was released the third week of each month in those early days. This was extremely consistent and I can find no exceptions from this era. Compiling twenty years of arrival date information on these two books has proved to me (without the slightest question) that Superman #4 was actually on the newsstand at least one week (more likely 10 days minimum) prior to Action Comics #23. So, although the story in Action #23 was designed to be the first Lex Luthor story, Superman #4 (which contained two Lex stories) was actually released to the public first. "

Edited July 22, 2019 by Rip

[Casablanca]

Asking questions is fundamental to anything. I wish Joshua33 well in looking into this and I cant see how anyone can simply dismiss his initial questions. 

The hobby was in its infancy back then, if at all. Only a few people thought it was worthwhile saving these books, hence the Pedigrees we so eagerly collect today.

It appears Supes 4 was available first, whether by accident, copyright, snowstorms etc. Its an interesting endeavor to look back that keeps the hobby interesting.   

[G.A.tor]

58 minutes ago, Joshua33 said:

I wouldn't rule out us being able to prove Superman 4 hit newsstands first. I'll be working on that...

Will it change his first appearance in the eyes of collectors? No, probably not. But it will show that Superman 4 was available to the public first.

I’m not sure how one would go about definitively proving that but I wish you luck!

[Joshua33]

17 minutes ago, Rip said:

This debate isn't the first time. I thought I remembered reading an article somewhere about this around 20 years years ago. Maybe in the Overstreet monthly or something. I'm sure there is a Sups 4 with a arrival date somewhere. Either way I think Action 23 is the book regardless if Sups 4 beat it by a week. See Gambit.

BTW The arrival date posted earlier seems to match perfectly.

 

 

Ah here's Mark who also has some good insight. You are likely correct on the date.

"Superman was a quarterly publication in those early days and issue #4 was a Spring issue, released to the newsstands in early February of 1940. Superman issues were on the stands between the first and second week of the month and would be available for sale for three months, so this was a very time sensitive situation as the cover boldly stated SPRING ISSUE. Action Comics was a monthly publication and was released the third week of each month in those early days. This was extremely consistent and I can find no exceptions from this era. Compiling twenty years of arrival date information on these two books has proved to me (without the slightest question) that Superman #4 was actually on the newsstand at least one week (more likely 10 days minimum) prior to Action Comics #23. So, although the story in Action #23 was designed to be the first Lex Luthor story, Superman #4 (which contained two Lex stories) was actually released to the public first. "

Thanks for that. Truly appreciated. He might have been the one who posted the publication dates that appear to be 100% accurate.

[Jaydogrules]

24 minutes ago, Rip said:

This debate isn't the first time. I thought I remembered reading an article somewhere about this around 20 years years ago. Maybe in the Overstreet monthly or something. I'm sure there is a Sups 4 with a arrival date somewhere. Either way I think Action 23 is the book regardless if Sups 4 beat it by a week. See Gambit.

BTW The arrival date posted earlier seems to match perfectly.

 

 

Ah here's Mark who also has some good insight. You are likely correct on the date.

"Superman was a quarterly publication in those early days and issue #4 was a Spring issue, released to the newsstands in early February of 1940. Superman issues were on the stands between the first and second week of the month and would be available for sale for three months, so this was a very time sensitive situation as the cover boldly stated SPRING ISSUE. Action Comics was a monthly publication and was released the third week of each month in those early days. This was extremely consistent and I can find no exceptions from this era. Compiling twenty years of arrival date information on these two books has proved to me (without the slightest question) that Superman #4 was actually on the newsstand at least one week (more likely 10 days minimum) prior to Action Comics #23. So, although the story in Action #23 was designed to be the first Lex Luthor story, Superman #4 (which contained two Lex stories) was actually released to the public first. "

So... in other words, the potential quirk in delivery schedules in the quarterly vs. monthly (which, no, can not and will never be actually fully provable even in a best case scenario) has been known by Overstreet for at least 20 years, DC, much longer, and CGC the entirety of its existence (i.e., no new information has been shared in this thread), and all have and continue to show Action 23 as the true and proper first appearance of the character. 

Nice to know that content and publisher intent are indeed still king in this hobby, and more important than trifling semantic jibber-jabber.

-J.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Joshua33]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

So... in other words, the potential quirk in delivery schedules in the quarterly vs. monthly has been known by Overstreet for at least 20 years, DC, much longer, and CGC the entirety of its existence (i.e., no new information has been shared in this thread), and all have and continue to show Action 23 as the true and proper first appearance of the character. 

Nice to know that content and publisher intent are indeed still king in this hobby, and more important to trifling semantic jibber-jabber.

-J.

That's a nice OPINION you have there. 

 

[Jaydogrules]

Just now, Joshua33 said:

That's a nice OPINION you have there. 

 

Shouldn't you be drafting your grievance letter to DC on this matter right about now ? 

And, Lol,  my "opinion" is fact until you at least get DC to change their own official website on the subject with your speculative information that has been floating around  the hobby for decades.  

Have fun with that one buddy.  

-J.

[Joshua33]

Just now, Jaydogrules said:

Shouldn't you be drafting your grievance letter to DC on this matter right about now ? 

And, Lol,  my "opinion" is fact until you at least get DC to change their own official website on the subject with your speculative information that has been floating around  the hobby for decades.  

Have fun with that one buddy.  

-J.

[woowoo]

Bottom line Sup 4 says we meet again. Action 23 says his name is Lex L something like that. Sup 4 hit newsstand first still not going to change a thing we all good. What's up @G.A.tor you just cant give that Action 7 away send that book to me and we work something out If it has not sold in 2 years than your are charging to much. Don't be like Chuck . If you don't sell it in 6 month you don't need it

Edited July 23, 2019 by woowoo

[Jaydogrules]

12 minutes ago, woowoo said:

Bottom line Sup 4 says we meet again. Action 23 says his name is Lex L something like that. Sup 4 hit newsstand first still not going to change a thing we all good. What's up @G.A.tor you just cant give that Action 7 away send that book to me and we work something out If it has not sold in 2 years than your are charging to much. Don't be like Chuck . If you don't sell it in 6 month you don't need it

Agreed.

And *hint  The reason why DC has never nor will ever change their official site is because they would never allow a potential, trifling quirk in their delivery schedules 80 years ago to impact their canon in such a nonsensical, irrational manner.

Lesson- Content trumps all.  Rightfully so.  And even more so, over something that cannot conclusively be proven either way from 80 years ago, even if it was true. 

-J.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Jaydogrules

[Joshua33]

3 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Agreed.

And *hint  The reason why DC has never nor will ever change their official site is because they would never allow a potential, trifling quirk in their delivery schedules 80 years ago to impact their canon in such a nonsensical, irrational manner.

Lesson- Content trumps all.  Rightfully so.  And even more so, something that cannot conclusively be proven either way from 80 years ago, even if it was true. 

-J.

[G.A.tor]

16 minutes ago, woowoo said:

Bottom line Sup 4 says we meet again. Action 23 says his name is Lex L something like that. Sup 4 hit newsstand first still not going to change a thing we all good. What's up @G.A.tor you just cant give that Action 7 away send that book to me and we work something out If it has not sold in 2 years than your are charging to much. Don't be like Chuck . If you don't sell it in 6 month you don't need it

We had 3 action 7s. Feel free to buy one