Some Guys Get All The Breaks - 8.5 to 9.2

[awe4one]

No, I don't think. If the dealers started some kind of petition like that, it would look as if they have something to hide, although maybe some do. I think it would help larger deals on raw books be closed with more confidence. But yeah, some dealers may not like it. All interested buyers would like it.

 

If anything it'll solve the "why didn't they get it slabbed" question...

 

Jim

[PedigreeMan]

I prefer Bob Storm's idea of holding grading and/or restoration detection classes, either at conventions or elsewhere. Teach a man to fish versus giving him a fish and all that .... And while one certainly couldn't learn everything nor become an expert in restoration detection by taking one or two classes, a properly structured course of study would go a long way toward removing the current monopoly situation.

 

Alan

 

(And would someone mind quoting my previous post in reply to JC? I think he has me on ignore and I don't want him to weasel his way out of his sweeping statement about card grading companies. Thanks.)

[Aman619]

At the risk of being slammed, I will mention once again that some of the card grading companies were found to be artificially limiting the number of ultra-high grades, especially the more important and valuable the card was.

 

No slam here, Joe, but do you have a citation for your statement that "card grading companies were found to be artificially limiting the number ..."? Found by whom? The FTC or some other governmental agency? I thought the only time the Feds looked into the professionally graded collectible market was with the whole Accugrade case that Hammer is constantly carping about ...?

 

I'd seriously like to know more about this.

 

Alan

 

good point...

[sterlingcomics]

At least when I'm buying CGC graded books these days, I can at least be sure that the book isn't missing any interior pages

 

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

 

Right. Wasn't there a story here about a DD issue being liberated, only to find that it was missing pages? If anyone has a link, post it.

[Ze-man]

At the risk of being slammed, I will mention once again that some of the card grading companies were found to be artificially limiting the number of ultra-high grades, especially the more important and valuable the card was.

 

No slam here, Joe, but do you have a citation for your statement that "card grading companies were found to be artificially limiting the number ..."? Found by whom? The FTC or some other governmental agency? I thought the only time the Feds looked into the professionally graded collectible market was with the whole Accugrade case that Hammer is constantly carping about ...?

 

I'd seriously like to know more about this.

 

Alan

 

JC.. in case you have Alan on ignore.

Here was his question to you.

 

Care to share more with the class?

 

Ze-

[awe4one]

Right. Wasn't there a story here about a DD issue being liberated, only to find that it was missing pages? If anyone has a link, post it.

 

Ask and you shall receive...

 

DD #16 CGC 4.0 (Blue Universal grade)

 

Jim

[Red Hook]

Okay, say you're haggling over a book with a dealer......the dealer claims that it's not restored. What are you going to do? Say, "Hey, can I borrow this for a minute and run it over to the Resto guy?" Might make for an awkward moment. Maybe you see the scenario playing out a little differently.

 

I'd ask how the dealers here would feel about that..........

[awe4one]

Oh I agree with you...

 

But the mere presence of a resto guy or the ability to get a comic checked during the timeframe of a show could potentially greatly decrease the number of undisclosed restored comics on the back boards...

 

It's wishful thinking for sure but a good idea regardless...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

JC.. in case you have Alan on ignore.

 

I don't have the material here, but I have read on the subject in the sports and grading card magazines. I'm pretty sure it was the old "disgruntled employee" spilling the beans, and it involved a few companies and the backroom dealings.

 

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

If you really want to find out what was involved and which companies, I am certain the info is online so get searching.

 

And this is far from the worst thing to be brought out, and was fairly tame compared to "loaning out their encapsulating machines for weekends" and known employee theft and tampering with the grading process.

[Silver Surfer]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

[BassGMan]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

[arexcrooke]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

Sid, honestly, do you not think (this is baseless innuendo and has not merit based on facts, just presenting a line of thought) that if a grading company does what SS believes, that they wont reap financial rewards from it?

[Aman619]

triple negatives!!! head hurts!!! long for simple ingrish preese!!!

[Silver Surfer]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

 

Doesn't Halpern (our whomever) own a piece of Heritage? Who is to say that the owners of CGC are not trading CGC goods, either indirectly through Heritage or other channels. Heritage allows employees to bid on books which is ridiculous in my mind and hence we have a vicious circle. Speculation maybe, but I think your being a bit naive if you want to discount the notion as "meaningless".

[BassGMan]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

Sid, honestly, do you not think (this is baseless innuendo and has not merit based on facts, just presenting a line of thought) that if a grading company does what SS believes, that they wont reap financial rewards from it?

 

I'm not saying CGC or any company is made up of only saints as directors and employees, and I realize that CGC may have done things that were in their own best interest over the market as a whole at times, but when I hear speculation such as this, and then see people jump on it and expound on it, I just sit back and laugh. People in general are like magnets to negativity and scandel, whether it has any basis in reality or not. Just more drama. People find drama to be entertaining.

 

That's my several lines of thought. And I know, I too.

[tth2]

Exactly, and to get back to my point, how would he know that they`re better copies unless he`s able to tell the difference between a NM, a NM+ and a NM/M?

 

Exactly what are you blithering about? That somehow Roter decided to ONLY offer the PC books to those people who could exactly tell a hypothetical CGC NM from a NM+ from a NM/M?

 

Did he have a grading entrance exam at the door?

No, retardo, I'm saying people wouldn't have paid Roter's nosebleed prices if they couldn't tell for themselves that these PC books were superior to the various NM copies that were already in the market.

[tth2]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

 

Doesn't Halpern (our whomever) own a piece of Heritage? Who is to say that the owners of CGC are not trading CGC goods, either indirectly through Heritage or other channels. Heritage allows employees to bid on books which is ridiculous in my mind and hence we have a vicious circle. Speculation maybe, but I think your being a bit naive if you want to discount the notion as "meaningless".

This is hilarious. Now we've got one camp of anti-CGC conspiracists saying that CGC artificially restricts the number of high end grades, in order to create artificial scarcity. The other, longer-standing, camp of anti-CGC conspiracists has been saying that CGC has been too lenient in allowing books to get pressed and cleaned up into higher grades, and too lenient in general in allowing books to get upgraded on resub even if there was no work done.

 

Which is it, folks? You can't believe in both at the same time (although there are undoubtedly some here who somehow manage to do just that! ).

[FlyingDonut]

Jerry Fletcher: A good conspiracy is unprovable. I mean, if you can prove it, it means they screwed up somewhere along the line.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Basically, it came down to employees being told "not too give too many X grades" and the finalizer using a set quota to lower these if necessary.

 

I am convinced this is a common practice in this industry.

 

But my question is, since the grading companies themselves are not selling graded books, why would they even care? What is in it for them to set up some kind of quota such as this? Some of you guys can speculate all you want on this subject, at least relating to CGC, but as far as I'm concerned it's just more soap opera banter and pretty meaningless.

 

Doesn't Halpern (our whomever) own a piece of Heritage? Who is to say that the owners of CGC are not trading CGC goods, either indirectly through Heritage or other channels. Heritage allows employees to bid on books which is ridiculous in my mind and hence we have a vicious circle. Speculation maybe, but I think your being a bit naive if you want to discount the notion as "meaningless".

This is hilarious. Now we've got one camp of anti-CGC conspiracists saying that CGC artificially restricts the number of high end grades, in order to create artificial scarcity. The other, longer-standing, camp of anti-CGC conspiracists has been saying that CGC has been too lenient in allowing books to get pressed and cleaned up into higher grades, and too lenient in general in allowing books to get upgraded on resub even if there was no work done.

 

Which is it, folks? You can't believe in both at the same time (although there are undoubtedly some here who somehow manage to do just that! ).

 

Or maybe CGC has been too sloppy in allowing pressed books to be graded higher? They are overun with work and a 3 month waiting list would confirm that. I have always felt that high grade old label CGC books were scrutinized more than they are now, whether its just due to an evolution of grading as a whole or something else I do not know.

 

We know they don't consider pressing to be restoration so unless it is painfully obvious are they really looking for it or do they even care. Also, how do you really seperate a modern 9.8 vs a 9.9? Producing 9.8's for new issues to major dealers like WAC, Colussus, etc must form a big part of their business model.

 

Maybe if they would explain their grading criteria to the public it would ease the speculation.

[Red Hook]

Oh I agree with you...

 

But the mere presence of a resto guy or the ability to get a comic checked during the timeframe of a show could potentially greatly decrease the number of undisclosed restored comics on the back boards...

 

It's wishful thinking for sure but a good idea regardless...

 

Jim

 

Oh, I agree... Sid had a good idea....but I'm skeptical about it being possible to put it into practice.