Some Guys Get All The Breaks - 8.5 to 9.2

[Silver Surfer]

This is hilarious. Now we've got one camp of anti-CGC conspiracists saying that CGC artificially restricts the number of high end grades, in order to create artificial scarcity. The other, longer-standing, camp of anti-CGC conspiracists has been saying that CGC has been too lenient in allowing books to get pressed and cleaned up into higher grades, and too lenient in general in allowing books to get upgraded on resub even if there was no work done.

 

Which is it, folks? You can't believe in both at the same time (although there are undoubtedly some here who somehow manage to do just that! ).

 

Great post Tim. This is funny isn't it? I'm tellin' ya'. Some people just like to run with this stuff. Like I said before, drama is entertaining. And some people will focus on anything that they can grab onto in order to create a story. Usually revolving around some kind of scandel. I'm afraid that much of the reality is too boring, so people will go off on tangents. Thus, the life of message boards.

 

I'm not saying there is never any truth to speculations, I'm just saying there is no truth to 90% of it.

 

Is there any subject on this forum that does not involve conspiracy theories? Let's talk about the possibility of red hearts on NEWT's boxers....at least there may be some truth in that.

 

West

 

While the latest "conspiracy" theory involving CGC may or may not be true (and I have no idea where the truth lies), the underlying problem lies with CGC's reluctance, if not outright policy, to decline publicly addressing legitimate concerns regarding its policies. For example, someone from CGC could easily have participated on the SD panel discussion in place of Steve, but CGC decided not to do so. Someone from CGC could respond to issues regarding resubmits, but no one does. Someone could respond to the standards CGC applies when grading books, but no one does. And the list goes on.

 

I see this all the time in DC with the Govt. Conspiracy theories tend to take on lives of their own and the fault usually ultimately lies with those who know the truth remaining silent, for one reason or another.

 

I agree CGC's silence on a number of these issues only helps to fuel the speculation, doubt and mis-trust that unfortunantely has plagued this hobby for many years. I am only left to think that a) they do not care b) can't be bothered to address specific concerns or c) have something to hide. I think its a bit of all three.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

This is hilarious. Now we've got one camp of anti-CGC conspiracists saying that CGC artificially restricts the number of high end grades, in order to create artificial scarcity. The other, longer-standing, camp of anti-CGC conspiracists has been saying that CGC has been too lenient in allowing books to get pressed and cleaned up into higher grades, and too lenient in general in allowing books to get upgraded on resub even if there was no work done.

 

Which is it, folks? You can't believe in both at the same time (although there are undoubtedly some here who somehow manage to do just that! ).

 

Great post Tim. This is funny isn't it? I'm tellin' ya'. Some people just like to run with this stuff. Like I said before, drama is entertaining. And some people will focus on anything that they can grab onto in order to create a story. Usually revolving around some kind of scandel. I'm afraid that much of the reality is too boring, so people will go off on tangents. Thus, the life of message boards.

 

I'm not saying there is never any truth to speculations, I'm just saying there is no truth to 90% of it.

 

Is there any subject on this forum that does not involve conspiracy theories? Let's talk about the possibility of red hearts on NEWT's boxers....at least there may be some truth in that.

 

West

 

While the latest "conspiracy" theory involving CGC may or may not be true (and I have no idea where the truth lies), the underlying problem lies with CGC's reluctance, if not outright policy, to decline publicly addressing legitimate concerns regarding its policies. For example, someone from CGC could easily have participated on the SD panel discussion in place of Steve, but CGC decided not to do so. Someone from CGC could respond to issues regarding resubmits, but no one does. Someone could respond to the standards CGC applies when grading books, but no one does. And the list goes on.

 

I see this all the time in DC with the Govt. Conspiracy theories tend to take on lives of their own and the fault usually ultimately lies with those who know the truth remaining silent, for one reason or another.

 

I agree CGC's silence on a number of these issues only helps to fuel the speculation, doubt and mis-trust that unfortunantely has plagued this hobby for many years. I am only left to think that a) they do not care b) can't be bothered to address specific concerns or c) have something to hide. I think its a bit of all three.

 

I think Steve realizes the utter futility of trying to refute the acqusations levied against CGC on the Forum. Arguing CGC's stance on these boards never really convinces the naysayers of anything (I know, I'm occasionally one of them), and really just serves to stir up the hornet's nest of discontent even more. I think he'd rather spend his time grading books.

[PedigreeMan]

Will someone go grab one of those card guys from the SGC forum and see what they have to say about JC's ramblings?

 

I'd do it myself, but I'm not your mother. (Plus, I have to get to work.)

[BassGMan]

 

I think Steve realizes the utter futility of trying to refute the acqusations levied against CGC on the Forum. Arguing CGC's stance on these boards never really convinces the naysayers of anything (I know, I'm occasionally one of them), and really just serves to stir up the hornet's nest of discontent even more. I think he'd rather spend his time grading books.

 

There ya' go.

[Silver Surfer]

I think Steve realizes the utter futility of trying to refute the acqusations levied against CGC on the Forum. Arguing CGC's stance on these boards never really convinces the naysayers of anything (I know, I'm occasionally one of them), and really just serves to stir up the hornet's nest of discontent even more. I think he'd rather spend his time grading books.

 

I'm sure he rather grade books than have to take the time to explain their grading policies, pedigree verification process, etc in writing but that is bogus and sends the wrong message. I'm not asking anyone to explain conspiracey theories just the basic stuff.

[BassGMan]

I think Steve realizes the utter futility of trying to refute the acqusations levied against CGC on the Forum. Arguing CGC's stance on these boards never really convinces the naysayers of anything (I know, I'm occasionally one of them), and really just serves to stir up the hornet's nest of discontent even more. I think he'd rather spend his time grading books.

 

I'm sure he rather grade books than have to take the time to explain their grading policies, pedigree verification process, etc in writing but that is bogus and sends the wrong message. I'm not asking anyone to explain conspiracey theories just the basic stuff.

 

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

[Silver Surfer]

I think Steve realizes the utter futility of trying to refute the acqusations levied against CGC on the Forum. Arguing CGC's stance on these boards never really convinces the naysayers of anything (I know, I'm occasionally one of them), and really just serves to stir up the hornet's nest of discontent even more. I think he'd rather spend his time grading books.

 

I'm sure he rather grade books than have to take the time to explain their grading policies, pedigree verification process, etc in writing but that is bogus and sends the wrong message. I'm not asking anyone to explain conspiracey theories just the basic stuff.

 

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

 

I would prefer that they legitimize their standards and practices in writing for all to see what they are paying for. What Steve says to me on the phone today might not apply 6 months from now. Nuff said on this issue.

[awe4one]

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

 

What's stopping him from just posting the info here? This is their bulletin board last I checked. Everyone says "just call them up"...but we are calling them up, right here on their own message board. What will he be able to tell Surfer that he can't just as easily post here? And be able to say once instead of 5 times to 5 different people with the same questions? He could get a whole lot of more comics graded faster if he spent less time getting interrupted on the phone and posted here during his slack time. That's better time management in my opinion...

 

The "just call them" mantra is starting to sound like a weak argument in the face of legitimate questions. Not to mention a damn archaic form of communication considering the existence of this Board. For questions and issues that aren't singularly directed there's no reason to call. They have the tools to pass on info right here, they just have to use it...

 

Jim

[Aman619]

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

 

What's stopping him from just posting the info here? This is their bulletin board last I checked. Everyone says "just call them up"...but we are calling them up, right here on their own message board. What will he be able to tell Surfer that he can't just as easily post here? And be able to say once instead of 5 times to 5 different people with the same questions? He could get a whole lot of more comics graded faster if he spent less time getting interrupted on the phone and posted here during his slack time. That's better time management in my opinion...

 

The "just call them" mantra is starting to sound like a weak argument in the face of legitimate questions. Not to mention a damn archaic form of communication considering the existence of this Board. For questions and issues that aren't singularly directed there's no reason to call. They have the tools to pass on info right here, they just have to use it...

 

Jim

 

thats right. Whats being asked for is not personal questions, rather CGCs stance on certain issues. Should these answers be only available in a one-on-one situation? Would it be better if we did each call Steve and get the answers, then come here and relay the info, only to be open to scrutiny as to whether Steve was quoted correctly? Is second hand info better than just addressing our concerns here?

 

I know there is a reluctance to "put it in writing". The less said the better is a wise cautious business decision that anticipates trouble... but, ...

[Ze-man]

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

 

What's stopping him from just posting the info here? This is their bulletin board last I checked. Everyone says "just call them up"...but we are calling them up, right here on their own message board. What will he be able to tell Surfer that he can't just as easily post here? And be able to say once instead of 5 times to 5 different people with the same questions? He could get a whole lot of more comics graded faster if he spent less time getting interrupted on the phone and posted here during his slack time. That's better time management in my opinion...

 

The "just call them" mantra is starting to sound like a weak argument in the face of legitimate questions. Not to mention a damn archaic form of communication considering the existence of this Board. For questions and issues that aren't singularly directed there's no reason to call. They have the tools to pass on info right here, they just have to use it...

 

Jim

 

thats right. Whats being asked for is not personal questions, rather CGCs stance on certain issues. Should these answers be only available in a one-on-one situation? Would it be better if we did each call Steve and get the answers, then come here and relay the info, only to be open to scrutiny as to whether Steve was quoted correctly? Is second hand info better than just addressing our concerns here?

 

I know there is a reluctance to "put it in writing". The less said the better is a wise cautious business decision that anticipates trouble... but, ...

 

 

What exactly is it we are supposed to call and ask about again?

Sure, you can call CGC/Steve and ask any question you want, and almost always you will be met with an answer you can live with, the key is to know what specific questions to ask, and not be dirverted off your line of questioning if you are really after a specific answer to a specific question.

 

Can you call Steve and tell him to explain CGC's grading policy?.. ummm doubtful.. (might depend on how much wine ya give him.)

Can you call and ask a specific question regarding a paticular aspect of how CGC might grade a book if submitted?.. possible.

 

There is a difference.

 

Same as why I imagine Steve does not come here and reply to many of the topics he could actually chime in on. His words would get picked apart, looked at under an electron microscope, and run into the ground. We would yell at him, tell him to stop reading so many posts and get back to work.

We all would like the key to the Deluxe Leatherbound Employee CGC Rule Book, but from what I can gleen.. ever since day one it has always been a.. "you guys try and figure it all out.. cause we aint tellin ya squat"

 

 

But we still lov'um anyways.....

 

 

Ze-

[esquirecomics]

Then call Steve and ask him personally. See how easy that was? Problem solved. If you are not willing to do that then that's your prob. Although he may not be able to answer every question, you'd be surprised at how much he can answer. Go for it. 1-877-NMCOMIC. Many others at CGC are able to help as well if Steve is busy.

 

What's stopping him from just posting the info here? This is their bulletin board last I checked. Everyone says "just call them up"...but we are calling them up, right here on their own message board. What will he be able to tell Surfer that he can't just as easily post here? And be able to say once instead of 5 times to 5 different people with the same questions? He could get a whole lot of more comics graded faster if he spent less time getting interrupted on the phone and posted here during his slack time. That's better time management in my opinion...

 

The "just call them" mantra is starting to sound like a weak argument in the face of legitimate questions. Not to mention a damn archaic form of communication considering the existence of this Board. For questions and issues that aren't singularly directed there's no reason to call. They have the tools to pass on info right here, they just have to use it...

 

Jim

 

thats right. Whats being asked for is not personal questions, rather CGCs stance on certain issues. Should these answers be only available in a one-on-one situation? Would it be better if we did each call Steve and get the answers, then come here and relay the info, only to be open to scrutiny as to whether Steve was quoted correctly? Is second hand info better than just addressing our concerns here?

 

I know there is a reluctance to "put it in writing". The less said the better is a wise cautious business decision that anticipates trouble... but, ...

 

First let me say unequivocally that Steve B. has always been willing to talk with me and answer questions I pose to him. I raise no issue or complaint with having access to Steve or other CGC employees, their friendliness (heck, I go out eating and late night drinking with Steve every show we are at together. I consider him a friend) or willingness to converse.

 

HOWEVER, while there are certainly some on these boards whose statements or opinions are not worth addressing by either CGC or any of us, there are many, many legitimate questions and issues concerning CGC policies that numerous forumites have raised that deserve a response from CGC.

 

This board was created by CGC. It is monitored by CGC employees on a daily basis. The senior people at CGC post regularly on these boards. They clearly read what we write, which includes both questions and concerns. Unfortunately, they chose to typically address or contribute to the friviolous topics.

 

The argument that we should simply call CGC to answer/address a question/concern would be better positioned were CGC employees not participating on these boards (and this is not a slight to those who suggested it). The fact that they do, IMHO, simply demonstrates CGC's unwillingess to publicly address the difficult questions/issues and that, with all due respect to those employed at CGC, causes me to lose faith in its leadership which should be willing to be clear with its stances.

[towards2112]

This is hilarious. Now we've got one camp of anti-CGC conspiracists saying that CGC artificially restricts the number of high end grades, in order to create artificial scarcity. The other, longer-standing, camp of anti-CGC conspiracists has been saying that CGC has been too lenient in allowing books to get pressed and cleaned up into higher grades, and too lenient in general in allowing books to get upgraded on resub even if there was no work done.

 

Which is it, folks? You can't believe in both at the same time (although there are undoubtedly some here who somehow manage to do just that! ).

 

Great post Tim. This is funny isn't it? I'm tellin' ya'. Some people just like to run with this stuff. Like I said before, drama is entertaining. And some people will focus on anything that they can grab onto in order to create a story. Usually revolving around some kind of scandel. I'm afraid that much of the reality is too boring, so people will go off on tangents. Thus, the life of message boards.

 

I'm not saying there is never any truth to speculations, I'm just saying there is no truth to 90% of it.

 

Is there any subject on this forum that does not involve conspiracy theories? Let's talk about the possibility of red hearts on NEWT's boxers....at least there may be some truth in that.

 

West

 

While the latest "conspiracy" theory involving CGC may or may not be true (and I have no idea where the truth lies), the underlying problem lies with CGC's reluctance, if not outright policy, to decline publicly addressing legitimate concerns regarding its policies. For example, someone from CGC could easily have participated on the SD panel discussion in place of Steve, but CGC decided not to do so. Someone from CGC could respond to issues regarding resubmits, but no one does. Someone could respond to the standards CGC applies when grading books, but no one does. And the list goes on.

 

I see this all the time in DC with the Govt. Conspiracy theories tend to take on lives of their own and the fault usually ultimately lies with those who know the truth remaining silent, for one reason or another.

 

Mark,

Does this not get back to the basic moral question.....

Is silence a lie of omission ??

You being a legal beagle and all, how should a jurist respond to

the past 18 pages of accusations and innuendo, pardon the spelling

all, it's been a long weekend.

I believe all these pages would be quashed by a writ of heabeus corpus....

produce the body.

I would concur that every bad thing stated on the previous 18 pages

is entirely possible, but without actually holding the book in my

hands, I could not say with 100% conviction that the original 8.5

was or was not too low of a grade, or that 9.2 is or is not too high

of a grade. And go ahead and blow the image up 1000%. Makes

no difference. Images can be manipulated. Not by me, I'm a real

at that stuff, but it can be done. Refer to greggy's Wonder Woman,

or, don't.

So far 18 pages have been filled. With fluff. Glad you all have

time to kill. I currently do.

 

Phil

[Comicfan-migration]

Id like to point out some weird grading at Heritage.

 

First is a Phantom Stranger 6 9.6

http://www.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=2122

Look at the bottom corner. Is that a chip missing??

 

Next is a Star Wars 2 CGC 9.0

I had this book graded around VF- when I sold it on ebay.

The buyer had me sent it straight to a restoration company.

Now its a 9.0. But honestly I can't see where much was done with the book.

It still has horrible staining and some rubbed off color.

 

http://www.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=1298

[Mr. Zipper]

Same as why I imagine Steve does not come here and reply to many of the topics he could actually chime in on. His words would get picked apart, looked at under an electron microscope, and run into the ground.

 

CGC makes lots of money. They should spend a few bucks on a PR professional who can write policy statements that answer base questions. Then they won't have to worry about graders and other personnel making flip comments and getting "picked apart."

 

I agree that the old "just call 'em" response is absurd in many cases. One shouldn't have to call a company to learn their basic policies and standards.

 

"Hi, is Steve in?... oh, Hi Steve. This is Steve from New York. You got a few minutes? Yeah, could you tell me about your grading standards please? Oops... is that your call waiting clicking? Sure, I'll hold on... no problem."

 

[Red Hook]

I agree 100% with that, Zip. Not a knock on Steve.

[Mr. Zipper]

First is a Phantom Stranger 6 9.6 http://www.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=2122

Look at the bottom corner. Is that a chip missing??

 

There is a tiny bit of bindery fuzz on the corner. The white spot just above that is part of the artwork.

 

Next is a Star Wars 2 CGC 9.0. I had this book graded around VF- when I sold it on ebay. The buyer had me sent it straight to a restoration company.

Now its a 9.0. But honestly I can't see where much was done with the book.

It still has horrible staining and some rubbed off color.

 

Wouldn't we all love to know who that buyer was?

 

BTW, the Star Wars 2 is a HORRIBLE 9.0. A rough book and a very, very weak grade.

[Comicfan-migration]

The white spot just above that is part of the artwork.

 

I think you may be right.

 

[BassGMan]

Regarding myself and others who have suggested anyone seeking questions should just call CGC... Well, I think it is a great start. I'm not suggesting a five-minute call will answer anyone's entire slate of questions. But you gotta admit, it is a good first step. That is not to say that CGC should not ever respond here, or have some kind of PR policy to address major topics, they should. But the calls are just one more option to take to get information when you don't see what you want appearing on these boards.

[sterlingcomics]

I'm passively collecting Phantom Strangers, and I saw that too. I won't get near that one with a ten foot pole. Good eyes! (Cream to Off-White doesn't help either, maybe it's a little more advanced than that--I know some of the PC books are actually TAN; maybe the page quality was a wee bit overestimated)

[rjpb]

Both those books are overgraded by 2 grades IMHO.