Old label purchase, need advice on tampering 0

[AdamRSD]

Hi guys, I just purchased a CGC graded X-Men #1 3.5 from Ebay and have concerns about whether or not it's been tampered with...kinda stressed right now.

It has an old style label, graded on 10/2000. I understand these cases are less secure and minor cracks after all that time are not uncommon. My question is that it looks like the top right and bottom left posts are missing. I'm not sure if this is how the cases were manufactured at the time, but any expertise you can provide for peace of mind would be greatly appreciated!! Some notes:

- verification number checks out.
- seller has 700 feedback and at 100%.
- book looks in better condition than the 3.5 grade.
- long edge of the case can be warped open about 1/8" without cracking the case; not sure if this is enough to remove the comic, and I'm not going to try obviously.
- photos of all corners attached; sorry if some are hard to see, best I could do with my phone camera.
- seems odd that opposite corner posts are missing; it seems like that wouldn't make it any easier to open.
- (note - can't edit the order of photos but the last two show the post & no-post corners the most clearly.)

So...has anyone seen cases where there are only 2 posts on opposite corners? It doesn't sound completely unreasonable.

Course of action--should I try to return it? I'd much rather not return it, but obviously if it's fake I need to.

Edited August 8, 2019 by AdamRSD

[Krismusic]

I would recommend calling CGC and sending them these pictures. Not a expert but that would worry me a bit is there any glue on the posts or near the crack that shows that maybe someone opened it and tried to glue it back. I mean you look like you researched the seller out and they have good feedback... 

[theCapraAegagrus]

I would return it.

The only 1st Gen CGC'd comic that I own has all 4 corners/posts completely in tact.

I simply would not take any chances with an X-Men #1.

[Bomber-Bob]

58 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

I would return it.

The only 1st Gen CGC'd comic that I own has all 4 corners/posts completely in tact.

I simply would not take any chances with an X-Men #1.

I agree, return it, immediately. 

[AdamRSD]

Thanks for the advice. I contacted CGC and sent over photos, waiting to hear back. They also said they wouldn't be able to do a simple re-holder until they examine it in person to see if it's been opened.

[The Lions Den]

It's unusual to have those posts broken like that. At the very least, it looks like someone tried to open the case... 

[Krismusic]

12 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

It's unusual to have those posts broken like that. At the very least, it looks like someone tried to open the case... 

yeah I thought it was obvious someone tried to open it how successful they were at getting something out or in or completely opening it would be hard to tell from the pics and more info such as if glue is there to show sealing it back up.. that's why I thought he should contact CGC and get their expert opinion on the matter 

[The Lions Den]

25 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

yeah I thought it was obvious someone tried to open it how successful they were at getting something out or in or completely opening it would be hard to tell from the pics and more info such as if glue is there to show sealing it back up.. that's why I thought he should contact CGC and get their expert opinion on the matter 

As long as the book inside the holder matches all the information on the label (as well as the grader notes) he should be OK as far as that goes. But I would still want to get a new holder for it, which shouldn't be a big deal...

[AdamRSD]

Torn because I got a pretty good deal and the book is in good shape. I'd prefer not to return it and my gut tells me it's fine but if I send to CGC and they insist in regrading rather than just a reholder I wouldn't want to be left to foot the bill. Or worse, if it was switched out with a restored copy or something.

Lions Den, I can't check the inside book because it's still sealed in the inner case. The only note on the label is that tape was removed from the centerfold.

[Krismusic]

I think he means if you want to do a quick check look up the grader notes you might have to buy them since you didn't submit the book or see if the seller can get you the notes and take a look a the graders notes and make sure what they mentioned on it matches what you can see on your book like if it says heavy creasing and multiple tears and you don't see those things on your book that's a red flag then. we can't see what your book likes as you have no pics of the full slab back or front. 

[TSwift25]

What does the inner well look like? It looks like someone tried to open the outer well, but the inner well is really what matters. If the book is still sealed in the inner well, and consistent with the grade, I wouldn’t worry too much, outside of getting it reholdered.

[AdamRSD]

Good idea, I'll probably splurge and get the notes, but I'm still thinking of returning so the seller has liability. But I really want it!

Inner well/seal looks fully in tact and legit. Here's a pic of the full book.

[comicginger1789]

If that’s a fake it’s a darn good fake.

Just get it reholdered and regraded and confirmed. If it’s a fake or something is wrong with it, CGC will find it. Then just file a claim and recoup the money from eBay. 

If you got a good deal on it, spend the money for piece of mind and an upgrade holder. Plus if you press and re grade maybe you get a bump to a 4.0

[AdamRSD]

I wanted to first thank everyone here for their time and help. Nice to have folks with a lot of experience weigh in. Once I hear back from CGC I will post the response here for anyone reading this in the future with the same issue. @TSwift25 @The Lions Den

Leaning toward keeping this even though my initial reaction was 100% return it! Grader notes below seem to match. Can anyone confirm that with the old labels the hologram sticker was on the outside of the holder?

@comicginger1789  I was literally typing the same thing and saw your post... Now the question is whether to get it regraded...I'm reading up that old label grades were more strict which explains that it looks better than most 3.5s I've seen. I'm assuming that they will not take the current 3.5 in to account for a re-grade? Any experience regrading an old label?

 

Bottom Spine Heavy Wear Breaks Color
Front Cover Dent
Interior Lite Centerfold Detached
Left Bottom Back Cover Small Crease
Left Top Back Cover Crease
Right Bottom Front Cover Crease Breaks Color
Right Center Front Cover Small Tear
Spine Chip Out
Spine Fade
Top Back Cover Small Tear
Top Spine Heavy Wear Breaks Color

[comicginger1789]

I haven’t personally had experience no but as you said, they were stricter. As for taking the old grade into account, I do not know. They should review with fresh eyes and base off their current standards. I have not heard of an old label getting a lower grade when re Graded unless something drastic was missed which is unlikely. At worst it could stay a 3.5 but I think investing in a press and clean could see this hit 4.0-4.5

[The Lions Den]

2 hours ago, AdamRSD said:

I wanted to first thank everyone here for their time and help. Nice to have folks with a lot of experience weigh in. Once I hear back from CGC I will post the response here for anyone reading this in the future with the same issue. @TSwift25 @The Lions Den

Leaning toward keeping this even though my initial reaction was 100% return it! Grader notes below seem to match. Can anyone confirm that with the old labels the hologram sticker was on the outside of the holder?

@comicginger1789  I was literally typing the same thing and saw your post... Now the question is whether to get it regraded...I'm reading up that old label grades were more strict which explains that it looks better than most 3.5s I've seen. I'm assuming that they will not take the current 3.5 in to account for a re-grade? Any experience regrading an old label?

 

Bottom Spine Heavy Wear Breaks Color
Front Cover Dent
Interior Lite Centerfold Detached
Left Bottom Back Cover Small Crease
Left Top Back Cover Crease
Right Bottom Front Cover Crease Breaks Color
Right Center Front Cover Small Tear
Spine Chip Out
Spine Fade
Top Back Cover Small Tear
Top Spine Heavy Wear Breaks Color

Just look at all those notes!

Back then, especially on key books, CGC wanted to make sure the submitter understood why the book received the grade it did. Hence the comprehensive note-taking.  

If I were you, I'd try to match up as many of those notes to what you can see through the holder, such as the "top back cover small tear" and the "left top back cover crease", but from what I can tell, it looks legit. I do think you should have this reholdered and looked at again to confirm the authenticity. With an important book like this one, you want to be sure it is what it's supposed to be.

The one thing that puzzles me a bit is the "tape removed from centerfold" comment on the label, but that may be what that "interior lite centerfold detached" comment in the notes is referring to...the notes could have been a little more clear about what's really going on there. As far as the grade goes, it's always possible it could change for the better or the worse, but that's a chance you take for peace of mind. 

In any event, from what I can see, the grade looks accurate...

Edited August 10, 2019 by The Lions Den