What to do when you receive a CGC 9.8 really isn't a 9.8? 1 1

[theCapraAegagrus]

3 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

So does Apple

You ever heard of MRSP?

You mean MSRP? Yeah, CGC doesn't sell a product, which means they cannot stipulate market prices. The comic books themselves are products.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

...But how can you say a comic at 9.8 is the same as a comic at 9.6.

Therefore the comic in some way is manufactured, it has become "different", and yet not place a price on it?

What...?

Comic books have prices on them.

CGC's services also have prices on them.

Product + service = free aftermarket pricing based on supply/demand. This is how the world works.

[Hollywood1892]

34 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

You mean MSRP? Yeah, CGC doesn't sell a product, which means they cannot stipulate market prices. The comic books themselves are products.

Yes they do

They sell slabbing.

A slabbed comic is more valuable than a raw comic in the same condition 

[Hollywood1892]

33 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

What...?

Comic books have prices on them.

CGC's services also have prices on them.

Product + service = free aftermarket pricing based on supply/demand. This is how the world works.

Exactly

And its baffling

[theCapraAegagrus]

Just now, Hollywood1892 said:

Yes they do

They sell slabbing.

A slabbed comic is more valuable than a raw comic in the same condition 

"Slabbing" is a service - not a product.

The comic book is the product; Of which aftermarket prices CGC cannot control. It's a Free market economy.

[theCapraAegagrus]

1 minute ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Exactly

And its baffling

No one is forcing you to buy anything above cover price. No one is preventing you from buying below cover price. See above post referencing free market economy.

[Krismusic]

I think the points that are being argued here and another thread I was reading is the CGC grades from 9.6, 9.8, 9.9, 10 are all very close to each other in the gaps on the scale but are all very different because of the subjectivity of grading. 

who can really tell the difference between a 9.8 a 9.9 and a 10 everyone thinks their 9.8 are 9.9 or 10 but when coming back from CGC it turns out they were wrong, because of this rarity of 9.9 and 10 grades markets create a exclusivity of rarity that some claim CGC manufactures a exclusivity of rarity by keeping things out of the 9.9 or 10 range even if it seems like the book should be a 9.9 or 10 (another member argued this with me their idea). I am not sure about if CGC keeps books out of the 9.9 or 10 range to keep rarity, etc.. and don't think we will ever get concrete evidence to support this idea/theory.. but what we can do is educate ourselves and realize that we shouldn't pay extremely high premiums on a book because of the following:

1. its a 9.9 or 10 so it must be rare

2. just because the Census only has 10 copies of 9.8 or 9.9 (whatever) 

** We must remember that there are more Raw copies of a book than there are of graded copies... As you never know what book would come out of the woodwork..

Stop paying huge premiums because a book is a 9.9 or 10 and you think its rare. pay the premium if you truly think its rare for other situation, low print runs, most copies destroyed, etc... but not for the label "rarity" unless there's a special rare artwork label from CGC that cost more but pay accordingly (you know what I mean)..

BUY THE BOOK NOT THE LABEL... 

remember CGC is a service to protect our comics and give an opinion of the condition of a comic to help the seller and buyer understand the condition of the book without a bias towards a seller or buyer... 

[Hollywood1892]

5 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

I think the points that are being argued here and another thread I was reading is the CGC grades from 9.6, 9.8, 9.9, 10 are all very close to each other in the gaps on the scale but are all very different because of the subjectivity of grading. 

who can really tell the difference between a 9.8 a 9.9 and a 10 everyone thinks their 9.8 are 9.9 or 10 but when coming back from CGC it turns out they were wrong, because of this rarity of 9.9 and 10 grades markets create a exclusivity of rarity that some claim CGC manufactures a exclusivity of rarity by keeping things out of the 9.9 or 10 range even if it seems like the book should be a 9.9 or 10 (another member argued this with me their idea). I am not sure about if CGC keeps books out of the 9.9 or 10 range to keep rarity, etc.. and don't think we will ever get concrete evidence to support this idea/theory.. but what we can do is educate ourselves and realize that we shouldn't pay extremely high premiums on a book because of the following:

1. its a 9.9 or 10 so it must be rare

2. just because the Census only has 10 copies of 9.8 or 9.9 (whatever) 

** We must remember that there are more Raw copies of a book than there are of graded copies... As you never know what book would come out of the woodwork..

Stop paying huge premiums because a book is a 9.9 or 10 and you think its rare. pay the premium if you truly think its rare for other situation, low print runs, most copies destroyed, etc... but not for the label "rarity" unless there's a special rare artwork label from CGC that cost more but pay accordingly (you know what I mean)..

BUY THE BOOK NOT THE LABEL... 

remember CGC is a service to protect our comics and give an opinion of the condition of a comic to help the seller and buyer understand the condition of the book without a bias towards a seller or buyer... 

[theCapraAegagrus]

11 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

BUY THE BOOK NOT THE LABEL... 

remember CGC is a service to protect our comics and give an opinion of the condition of a comic to help the seller and buyer understand the condition of the book without a bias towards a seller or buyer... 

This is really all you had to say.

CGC'd comics will always command a premium because:

1. 'Certainty' of authenticity.
2. It costs money to utilize their services.

Only demand will fix the market. Supply will never be higher, though.

Pretending that CGC can somehow "fix" the market is asinine. By default they inflate the market for assessing their opinions on comics. Their costs = higher costs for collectors. It's logic.

[Krismusic]

2 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

This is really all you had to say.

CGC'd comics will always command a premium because:

1. 'Certainty' of authenticity.
2. It costs money to utilize their services.

Only demand will fix the market. Supply will never be higher, though.

Pretending that CGC can somehow "fix" the market is asinine. By default they inflate the market for assessing their opinions on comics. Their costs = higher costs for collectors. It's logic.

. but what we can do is educate ourselves and realize that we shouldn't pay extremely high premiums on a book because of the following:

but you missed that point where I say its up to us the buyers or collectors to not pay extremely high premiums I understand there are differences between the additional cost for slab book but to see a difference in price of a 9.8 costing 200$ to a 9.9 costing 3k is the point I'm getting at and a 9.8 compared to a 9.9 might look exactly the same so why do buyers pay more. Well the label told me too.. 

and this point

who can really tell the difference between a 9.8 a 9.9 and a 10 everyone thinks their 9.8 are 9.9 or 10 but when coming back from CGC it turns out they were wrong

[theCapraAegagrus]

6 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

. but what we can do is educate ourselves and realize that we shouldn't pay extremely high premiums on a book because of the following:

but you missed that point where I say its up to us the buyers or collectors to not pay extremely high premiums I understand there are differences between the additional cost for slab book but to see a difference in price of a 9.8 costing 200$ to a 9.9 costing 3k is the point I'm getting at and a 9.8 compared to a 9.9 might look exactly the same so why do buyers pay more. Well the label told me too.. 

and this point

who can really tell the difference between a 9.8 a 9.9 and a 10 everyone thinks their 9.8 are 9.9 or 10 but when coming back from CGC it turns out they were wrong

If people didn't buy NM- and higher at twice the price at 0.2 increments then we wouldn't even be discussing this.

I didn't "miss any points".

I can tell the difference between a 9.8 and Gem Mint. I'm not sure that a 9.9 grade should even exist.

[Hollywood1892]

15 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

If people didn't buy NM- and higher at twice the price at 0.2 increments then we wouldn't even be discussing this.

 

I can tell the difference between a 9.8 and Gem Mint. I'm not sure that a 9.9 grade should even exist.

Exactly

 

[Hollywood1892]

31 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

 

Pretending that CGC can somehow "fix" the market is asinine. By default they inflate the market for assessing their opinions on comics. Their costs = higher costs for collectors. It's logic.

Very rude.

[RockMyAmadeus]

48 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

who can really tell the difference between a 9.8 a 9.9 and a 10

Quite a few people. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Vital to remember in this conversation: aside from setting their service prices, CGC does not care about the market, in any way, shape, manner, or form. 

Nor should they. 

Please keep this in mind, because otherwise, you're going to be led down paths that sound quite reasonable, but bear no resemblance to reality.

Also vital to remember: grading is subjective and grading is collaborative. CGC's word is not the "final say", regardless of the hordes of buyers and sellers that treat it like it is...and CGC doesn't think that, either.

[Krismusic]

4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Quite a few people. 

I'm sure there has to be a few people otherwise who would be grading these books, but I don't think a ton of the market can tell the difference between a 9.8 and 9.9 as I thought some books looked to be 9.9 come back 9.8's are a flawless no grader notes so how do you tell? 

also the many stories where so many people expect their books to be 9.9 and the come back 9.8's so I guess there are many out there that can't tell the difference... 

How do you tell the difference and tips?

 

[Hollywood1892]

11 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Vital to remember in this conversation: aside from setting their service prices, CGC does not care about the market, in any way, shape, manner, or form. 

Nor should they. 

Please keep this in mind, because otherwise, you're going to be led down paths that sound quite reasonable, but bear no resemblance to reality.

Also vital to remember: grading is subjective and grading is collaborative. CGC's word is not the "final say", regardless of the hordes of buyers and sellers that treat it like it is...and CGC doesn't think that, either.

I agree

Unfortunately money does not grow on trees

[theCapraAegagrus]

58 minutes ago, Krishosein said:

I'm sure there has to be a few people otherwise who would be grading these books, but I don't think a ton of the market can tell the difference between a 9.8 and 9.9 as I thought some books looked to be 9.9 come back 9.8's are a flawless no grader notes so how do you tell? 

also the many stories where so many people expect their books to be 9.9 and the come back 9.8's so I guess there are many out there that can't tell the difference... 

How do you tell the difference and tips?

If a comic was not cut perfectly, it will not receive a Mint or Gem Mint grade from CGC. So, in your case, the comic's must not be perfect (as Gem/Mint would imply).

Many people do not understand some simple concepts, such as above, that eliminate comics from being Mint/Gem. Sure, it's more difficult to tell the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9, I'm confident that I can, but it's minuscule.

[Hollywood1892]

51 minutes ago, theCapraAegagrus said:

If a comic was not cut perfectly, it will not receive a Mint or Gem Mint grade from CGC. So, in your case, the comic's must not be perfect (as Gem/Mint would imply).

Many people do not understand some simple concepts, such as above, that eliminate comics from being Mint/Gem. Sure, it's more difficult to tell the difference between a 9.8 and a 9.9, I'm confident that I can, but it's minuscule.

Asm 361

Web of Spiderman 1

Both notorious for brutal cuts and there is mint versions of those out there.

[theCapraAegagrus]

4 minutes ago, Hollywood1892 said:

Asm 361

Web of Spiderman 1

Both notorious for brutal cuts and there is mint versions of those out there.

So...?

Guess what that means: Those Mint-graded copies don't have "brutal cuts".

2/14,000 ASM 361s are Mint. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by theCapraAegagrus