• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

The Great First Appearance Debate- Resolved???
1 1

Started by comicginger1789,

171 posts in this topic

bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Because Wolverine never appeared before the end of Hulk 180, while Venom appeared in 3 books before ASM 299.

:gossip: Don't tell that to Mary Jane Watson fans. 

I believe IH 180 and ASM 299 are the same, revealed & named in final page(s) to tease upcoming first full appearance.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, bababooey said:

:gossip: Don't tell that to Mary Jane Watson fans. 

I believe IH 180 and ASM 299 are the same, revealed & named in final page(s) to tease upcoming first full appearance.   

What about MJ fans?

They're the same as far as the character being revealed at the end as a lead-in to the next issue, but Wolverine's gloves didn't appear in Hulk 179 and he didn't attack the Hulk or Wendigo from the shadows in any previous issue(s).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bababooey

bababooey

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

What about MJ fans?

They're the same as far as the character being revealed at the end as a lead-in to the next issue, but Wolverine's gloves didn't appear in Hulk 179 and he didn't attack the Hulk or Wendigo from the shadows in any previous issue(s).

MJ's first is her last page reveal in 42 and she also had shadowy/obscured appearances prior to her first.  I suppose as a supporting character her full reveal is all people needed to call it her "first appearance", but that's really a different discussion anyways.

The point is that ASM 299 and IH 180 meet the same criteria (revealed and named), whatever foreshadowing happened prior to that brief teaser appearance doesn't make the appearance any more or less valid.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comicginger1789

comicginger1789

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Suppose a letter was discovered in Stan Lee’s estate. In in he said that he had plans for a person he wrote about in a prior issue of Amazing Fantasy to AF 15 to become Spider-Man. This character was also of a different race. However his  boss said it was ridiculous (thinking of the times) and so he switched it to a New York kid.

would that cause you to call this character as the first appearance of Spider-Man? Because that would follow your Venom logic. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, comicginger1789 said:

Suppose a letter was discovered in Stan Lee’s estate. In in he said that he had plans for a person he wrote about in a prior issue of Amazing Fantasy to AF 15 to become Spider-Man. This character was also of a different race. However his  boss said it was ridiculous (thinking of the times) and so he switched it to a New York kid.

would that cause you to call this character as the first appearance of Spider-Man? Because that would follow your Venom logic. 

Spider-Man was finalized as a teenage Peter Parker even though Kirby drew a Captain America-like character with a web gun as a concept during the creative process.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comicginger1789

comicginger1789

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Spider-Man was finalized as a teenage Peter Parker even though Kirby drew a Captain America-like character with a web gun as a concept during the creative process.

You avoided my imagined scenario. Again suppose new info was found. By your definition you would label this prior Amazing Fantasy app as first Spiderman

Obviously it’s not the case. I’m just using it to explain why I think there’s a flaw in your logic. 

Edited by comicginger1789
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, comicginger1789 said:

You avoided my imagined scenario. Again suppose new info was found. By your definition you would label this prior Amazing Fantasy app as first Spiderman

Again, Spider-Man was finalized as a teenage Peter Parker. Nothing else matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, bababooey said:

whatever foreshadowing happened prior to that brief teaser appearance doesn't make the appearance any more or less valid.

Of course not, but first is first, and anything else is not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
comicginger1789

comicginger1789

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Again, Spider-Man was finalized as a teenage Peter Parker. Nothing else matters.

Come on :baiting: humour me. Don’t be a lazy boy...

If you are sitting on six long boxes of Web 18 and are slowly filtering them out for profit I’m not trying to get in your way. I just think we can call it something more accurate

Edited by comicginger1789
Link to comment
Share on other sites
kav

kav

Posted
Posted

MJ-appears in one panel at the end-first appearance.
Wolverine-appears in one panel at the end-not the first appearance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, comicginger1789 said:
9 minutes ago, kav said:

MJ-appears in one panel at the end-first appearance.
Wolverine-appears in one panel at the end-not the first appearance.

See? Problematic

Different types of characters get different exposure. Still, one panel is all it takes for an appearance, first or not. How much value (and I don't really mean monetary) collectors put on any specific appearance, regardless of length, is a separate issue.

But we're talking about stories here. You have to read them and consider things in context.

MJ was a long, drawn-out teaser. Other characters talked about her, she appeared obscured to the reader, and she was eventually revealed. Most new characters just show up out of nowhere. Wolverine wasn't completely unexpected due to the brief, cryptic mention of "Weapon X" earlier in the issue, but that's all the advance notice the reader got. Marvel didn't even produce ads for Wolverine in Hulk 180, but they did for Wolverine in Hulk 181.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kav

kav

Posted
Posted
57 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Different types of characters get different exposure. Still, one panel is all it takes for an appearance, first or not. How much value (and I don't really mean monetary) collectors put on any specific appearance, regardless of length, is a separate issue.

But we're talking about stories here. You have to read them and consider things in context.

MJ was a long, drawn-out teaser. Other characters talked about her, she appeared obscured to the reader, and she was eventually revealed. Most new characters just show up out of nowhere. Wolverine wasn't completely unexpected due to the brief, cryptic mention of "Weapon X" earlier in the issue, but that's all the advance notice the reader got. Marvel didn't even produce ads for Wolverine in Hulk 180, but they did for Wolverine in Hulk 181.

I've always wanted to ask-does your cat ever accidentally bid on stuff on ebay?  lol 

Screenshot 2019-09-12 at 9.15.20 PM.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sfcityduck

sfcityduck

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, kav said:

MJ-appears in one panel at the end-first appearance.
Wolverine-appears in one panel at the end-not the first appearance.

Except that everyone agrees that IH 180 is Wolverine's first appearance: OPG (180 is first app, 181 is "first full story"), CGC (180 is "first appearance of Wolverine" and 181 is "first full appearance"), and the collecting community.  It's just not as valuable as IH 181 because that's his first cover and first full appearance.  

So Wolverine is just like MJ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
1 1
Go to topic listing