How have label chasers affected the hobby

[joe_collector]

Pressing makes dealers, BSDs and CGC truckloads of easy money, so why would any of them come out against pressing?

[tth2]

Pressing makes dealers, BSDs and CGC truckloads of easy money, so why would any of them come out against pressing?

Undisclosed restoration made dealers and BSDs truckloads of easy money in the pre-CGC days, so why would any of them have come out against pressing?

[joe_collector]

Pressing makes dealers, BSDs and CGC truckloads of easy money, so why would any of them come out against pressing?

Undisclosed restoration made dealers and BSDs truckloads of easy money in the pre-CGC days, so why would any of them have come out against pressing?

 

Not that strawman again....

 

Yes, we all now that some pressing took place pre-CGC, but there was none of this press a CGC 9.4 to a CGC 9.6 or CGC 9.6 to a CGC 9.8-9.9 stuff going on, simply because there was no company out there that would grade at such bizarre levels.

 

Pre-CGC if someone took an absolutely pristine Church NM+ 9.6 and somehow pressed it to a hypothetical higher grade that same day, do you really think buyers would be willing to buy it for 5X-10X the original 9.6 sticker price? Without CGC and the "label buyers" that could never happen.

 

What CGC has done, through the insane multiples even a 0.2 "label bump" can bring, is take pressing to a whole new level of insanity.

[scourge456789-migration]

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[joe_collector]

Nice picture troll.

 

Now try telling me how there was MORE high-grade pressing going on pre-CGC than post-CGC. Just try it.

 

You people are either in denial, or have absolutely no clue how $$$ attracts the scammers, flim-flam artists, and basic scum of the Earth. And CGC has brought HG prices people could only dream of in the mid to late-90's.

 

Do the math.

[scourge456789-migration]

Joe_collector,

 

Huh ? I agree with you. I was trying to say that they are in denial.

 

Sorry if my post was confusing.

[tth2]

Pressing makes dealers, BSDs and CGC truckloads of easy money, so why would any of them come out against pressing?

Undisclosed restoration made dealers and BSDs truckloads of easy money in the pre-CGC days, so why would any of them have come out against pressing?

 

Not that strawman again....

 

Yes, we all now that some pressing took place pre-CGC, but there was none of this press a CGC 9.4 to a CGC 9.6 or CGC 9.6 to a CGC 9.8-9.9 stuff going on, simply because there was no company out there that would grade at such bizarre levels.

 

Pre-CGC if someone took an absolutely pristine Church NM+ 9.6 and somehow pressed it to a hypothetical higher grade that same day, do you really think buyers would be willing to buy it for 5X-10X the original 9.6 sticker price? Without CGC and the "label buyers" that could never happen.

 

What CGC has done, through the insane multiples even a 0.2 "label bump" can bring, is take pressing to a whole new level of insanity.

Read my post again. I said "restoration", not "pressing".

[sfilosa]

The thing I really don`t like about Steve F`s argument is that because a small circle of big collectors decided that pressing wasn`t a big deal, that it therefore shouldn`t be a big deal to the rest of us either.

 

I've never said it shouldn't be a big deal to any collector. Each collector needs to determine what is acceptable to them regarding grading standards, restoration, pressing or anything else.

 

But to have a SERIOUS EFFECT on comic collecting (and in this case we are obviuosly talking about HG collectors), the big collectors would have to be the one's denouncing it by not shelling out money on books that they might believe is a pressed book.

 

Would a big collector want to pay less for a PRESSED book, then an UNPRESSED book. Probably.

 

Want to know why? Because once the book has been pressed, they would realize that it probably couldn't be pressed into a higher grade, and not because they felt pressing was wrong.

 

Regarding my head in the sand or up my (not coming from you Tim), I would like to know which big time collectors have stopped collecting because they believe the books have been pressed?

 

And once again, let's remember, unlike RESTORATION, in many cases, PRESSING can not be determined with any assurity, most of the time. Especially if the pressing is bending out only the overhang or small non-color breaking corner bend.

[krazykat-migration]

It will affect Supply and demand Curves that is a FACT.

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

If an ASM # 1 is worth 90 K in its highest grade. And MORE can be pressed into existence,..

 

is not,...

 

http://www.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=6442

 

Worth 90K ?

 

Which is the better Amazing Spiderman COLLECTABLE ??????

[october]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

[sfilosa]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Die.

 

Damn, you said it first.

[krazykat-migration]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

Me ?,...Im just trying to bring comic book collectors to "THE NEXT LEVEL" ?

 

Why the animosity ?

 

Yes,..change is difficult. BUT,..ironically,..it is YOU who must adapt...

 

OR DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

DONT HATE ME BECAUSE MY ARGUMENTS ARE COMPELLING !!! WHICH YOU KNOW THEY ARE.

[october]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

Me ?,...Im just trying to bring comic book collectors to "THE NEXT LEVEL" ?

 

Why the animosity ?

 

Yes,..change is difficult. BUT,..ironically,..it is YOU who must adapt...

 

OR DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

I don't collect high grade, so even if the market did tank, I wouldn't give a shiite. In fact, I would like it. A market drop would enable me to buy a bunch of books I would not have been able to afford otherwise. I DON'T INVEST, I COLLECT. Not everything boils down to a market analysis. Some of us actually do collect because WE ENJOY COMICS.

 

 

By the way, did it ever occurr to you that your precious original art's value is tied inextricably to comic values? If comics bottom out, so does art. How many people spending 50k on OA aren't interested in comics? Lose one audience, lose the other.

[Norrin_Radd]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

Me ?,...Im just trying to bring comic book collectors to "THE NEXT LEVEL" ?

 

Why the animosity ?

 

Yes,..change is difficult. BUT,..ironically,..it is YOU who must adapt...

 

OR DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

DONT HATE ME BECAUSE MY ARGUMENTS ARE COMPELLING !!! WHICH YOU KNOW THEY ARE.

 

The next level ISN'T ridiculously expensive comic art, it's comics that are expensive because they are important NOT because they are ridiculously high grade.

 

Low-grade reading copies of important GA/SA keys. That's whether the market should be moving. "Buy the comic, not the label." A complete trend reversal.

 

[krazykat-migration]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

Me ?,...Im just trying to bring comic book collectors to "THE NEXT LEVEL" ?

 

Why the animosity ?

 

Yes,..change is difficult. BUT,..ironically,..it is YOU who must adapt...

 

OR DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

DONT HATE ME BECAUSE MY ARGUMENTS ARE COMPELLING !!! WHICH YOU KNOW THEY ARE.

 

The next level ISN'T ridiculously expensive comic art, it's comics that are expensive because they are important NOT because they are ridiculously high grade.

 

Low-grade reading copies of important GA/SA keys. That's whether the market should be moving. "Buy the comic, not the label." A complete trend reversal.

 

 

Norinn,

 

The problem is,..you forget exactly what psychologically motivates Comic Collector's. The neurosis is predicated on grade and difference between a "9.0 and a 9.2".

 

The only solution is to NOT PLAY THE GAME.

 

That is...Leave Comics....

 

the whole hobby is sick,...imho.

 

Moreover,...do you REALLY believe OA is ridiculously over-priced ? Based on what model ? I think OA is CHEAP,..CHEAP,..CHEAP,..in comparison with comic books.

 

What exactly is your argument for the fact that OA is expensive ?

 

Lets Debate !

 

 

 

[Norrin_Radd]

The only solution is to NOT PLAY THE GAME.

 

The game not to play is "label chasing".

 

 

Moreover,...do you REALLY believe OA is ridiculously over-priced ? Based on what model? I think OA is CHEAP,..CHEAP,..CHEAP,..in comparison with comic books.

 

What exactly is your argument for the fact that OA is expensive ?

 

Lets Debate!

 

Ridiculous compared to where it was just a few years ago.... just like HG comics.

 

It's all about demand. How many people can (and are willing to) spend 5 figures for SA/BA art? Compare this to how many people are willing to buy key GA/SA comics. There will always be demand for the early key comics as long as the hobby is around.

[krazykat-migration]

The only solution is to NOT PLAY THE GAME.

 

The game not to play is "label chasing".

 

 

Moreover,...do you REALLY believe OA is ridiculously over-priced ? Based on what model? I think OA is CHEAP,..CHEAP,..CHEAP,..in comparison with comic books.

 

What exactly is your argument for the fact that OA is expensive ?

 

Lets Debate!

 

Ridiculous compared to where it was just a few years ago.... just like HG comics.

 

It's all about demand. How many people can (and are willing to) spend 5 figures for SA/BA art? Compare this to how many people are willing to buy key GA/SA comics. There will always be demand for the early key comics as long as the hobby is around.

 

I agree. As far as comic book collecting is concerned. The only solution is to not "Chase the Grade". However,....I do not believe this is possible. Ideal, yes. Possible....No.

 

As far as OA being priced higher than it was years ago.....

 

It was practiacally ignored,...forever.

 

I remember,..I had a DD #21 Cover and couldnt get more than $2500 for it until 1994...by 98' it had jumped to a whooping 8K.....

 

In essence,..yes,...nothing grows at 20% annualy forever,..but one must remember,...

 

 

Comics have grown leaps and bounds,....while OA stagnated for a VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY long time.

 

Now there is a dilemma,....

 

either comics must come down in value or OA must go up.

 

How can an ASM #41 in 9.6 be worth $4,500 and yet the Original Cover Art is only worth Ten times that ?

 

There are arbitrage opportunities in one of the two markets...either Comics can be shorted (yes,..I know you cant truly short a comic)....or OA is under-valued,..and one should go LONG.

 

 

I believe in going LONG in OA.

 

 

 

Time will tell the tale.

[october]

 

The only solution is to not "Chase the Grade". However,....I do not believe this is possible. Ideal, yes. Possible....No.

 

WTF are you talking about? Yeah, you are right, it's physically impossible to not chase high grade comics. How old are you? Does anyone here know you personally? You come across as someone completely unfamiliar with the hobby. 99% of collectors have no interest in high grade comics.

 

[krazykat-migration]

 

The only solution is to not "Chase the Grade". However,....I do not believe this is possible. Ideal, yes. Possible....No.

 

WTF are you talking about? Yeah, you are right, it's physically impossible to not chase high grade comics. How old are you? Does anyone here know you personally? You come across as someone completely unfamiliar with the hobby. 99% of collectors have no interest in high grade comics.

 

[october]

 

The only solution is to not "Chase the Grade". However,....I do not believe this is possible. Ideal, yes. Possible....No.

 

WTF are you talking about? Yeah, you are right, it's physically impossible to not chase high grade comics. How old are you? Does anyone here know you personally? You come across as someone completely unfamiliar with the hobby. 99% of collectors have no interest in high grade comics.

 

 

Great response. Have fun with your non-existent original art collection!