ANT-MAN & THE WASP QUANTUMANIA directed by Peyton Reed (2023) 11 11

[paperheart]

On 2/26/2023 at 9:44 AM, Gatsby77 said:

?

If those numbers hold, it's still $100 million behind Wakanda Forever in domestic tickets alone in its first 10 days.

As (I believe Paperheart) noted earlier, Quantumania won't even hit $500 million worldwide.

i think it may just crawl past to save some semblance of face; $230M US, $275M Int'l - but no getting past it's a BO and critical bust

[1Cool]

I hope this prompts Marvel to scrap The whole multiverse movies.  I didn’t really like those stories in the comics and after Dr Strange was such a train wreck I hope they go a different direction.

[Bosco685]

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Bosco685

[Ken Aldred]

On 2/26/2023 at 7:30 PM, 1Cool said:

I hope this prompts Marvel to scrap The whole multiverse movies.  I didn’t really like those stories in the comics and after Dr Strange was such a train wreck I hope they go a different direction.

Far more variety in the comics, always lots of alternatives to multiverse stories, whereas the films are comparatively one-note at present.

[fastballspecial]

We need a better way to quantify a movie's success. Post Covid people are not going to the movies as much. 
They are even raising ticket prices at some theaters lol. As Marvel/Disney expands to include more demographics
 we will just have to accept they will never get back what they had in Phase 1. How do you top the Iron Man flying
scene or Cap picking up Thor's Hammer?

 

[alexgross.com]

saw it today with my 8 year old. that always helps me enjoy then more and be a bit less picky. still, i thought this was far better than dr strange multiverse or thor love and ladies. majors' kang was awesome, one of the more compelling villains in recent marvel films after thanos. agreed that he should have been much much harder to defeat but since there are more of him on the way i guess its not that big a deal. 

far from perfect, but honestly i think if we keep expecting anything marvel to live up to infinity war/endgame, we will never be happy. 

this movie was much more entertaining for us than eternals. 

[valiantman]

On 2/25/2023 at 6:53 PM, bentbryan said:

Yup. To be fair he looks better in the movie. 

[drotto]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:39 PM, fastballspecial said:

We need a better way to quantify a movie's success. Post Covid people are not going to the movies as much. 
They are even raising ticket prices at some theaters lol. As Marvel/Disney expands to include more demographics
 we will just have to accept they will never get back what they had in Phase 1. How do you top the Iron Man flying
scene or Cap picking up Thor's Hammer?

 

The issue is they have inflated budgets, and have decreased revenue streams.  So they reportedly spent $200 million on Quantomania and likely $100 to $150 million more on marketing.  In the past, they had the box office, but then they had rentals, DVD, Blu-ray, VOD, sales to other streaming services, and TV rights.  So if a movie underperformed in the theaters, there were multiple other chances to make money.  Now, with Disney's model of sending films to their proprietary streaming service at no added cost to their subscribers, the only viable revenue stream is the box office.  Those other revenue streams have been greatly reduced, if not entirely eliminated.  They are leaving a lot of money on the table in the hope of boosting the popularity and subs to D+. Streaming does not make the money, and is far harder to make money with, than they anticipated. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by drotto

[jsilverjanet]

Saw it Saturday and was disappointed 

I wanted to like it and I enjoy Paul Rudd and the previous two films

i was bored midway through the movie and had very little interest to see the end but I did

i think the multiverse has created a mess instead of helping them post iron man and captain America 

I think the plan they have isn’t very good or it feels that way

the end credit scene was more of an eye roll instead of must see can’t wait etc 

[drotto]

On 2/26/2023 at 11:48 PM, jsilverjanet said:

Saw it Saturday and was disappointed 

I wanted to like it and I enjoy Paul Rudd and the previous two films

i was bored midway through the movie and had very little interest to see the end but I did

i think the multiverse has created a mess instead of helping them post iron man and captain America 

I think the plan they have isn’t very good or it feels that way

the end credit scene was more of an eye roll instead of must see can’t wait etc 

Plus, if they repeatedly dispatch Kang, can they really call him a threat?  Or will people get board?

[Bosco685]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:39 PM, fastballspecial said:

We need a better way to quantify a movie's success. Post Covid people are not going to the movies as much. 
They are even raising ticket prices at some theaters lol. As Marvel/Disney expands to include more demographics
 we will just have to accept they will never get back what they had in Phase 1. How do you top the Iron Man flying
scene or Cap picking up Thor's Hammer?

We need a new gauge now that the MCU is experiencing what other studios have gone through when they assume just tossing characters on screen brings profits no matter the -script?

And throughout a series of Phase IV movies studio lessons learned have been there. But fanatical fans defending "My MCU" and domestic customers going repeated times to boost results temporarily buffered the pain. Now...

"We need a new measure of success..."

[Bosco685]

Quote

Disney and Marvel’s Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, starring Paul Rudd, fell to third place at China’s theatrical box office in its second weekend on local screens, earning just $7 million. Hong Kong courtroom thriller A Guilty Conscience, meanwhile, topped the charts with an $8.5 million opening, according to box-office tracker Artisan Gateway. And sci-fi blockbuster The Wandering Earth 2, which has been in cinemas since China’s Lunar New Year holiday over a month ago, climbed back into second place with an $7.4 million haul, lifting its total to $568 million.

 

[TupennyConan]

How many Paul Rudds are in this?

[valiantman]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:38 PM, drotto said:

The issue is they have inflated budgets, and have decreased revenue streams.  So they reportedly spent $200 million on Quantomania and likely $100 to $150 million more on marketing.  In the past, they had the box office, but then they had rentals, DVD, Blu-ray, VOD, sales to other streaming services, and TV rights.  So if a movie underperformed in the theaters, there were multiple other chances to make money.  Now, with Disney's model of sending films to their proprietary streaming service at no added cost to their subscribers, the only viable revenue stream is the box office.  Those other revenue streams have been greatly reduced, if not entirely eliminated.  They are leaving a lot of money on the table in the hope of boosting the popularity and subs to D+. Streaming does not make the money, and is far harder to make money with, than they anticipated. 

With 160+ million subscribers paying at least $6.25 a month (if not closer to $11 a month), Disney+ is making at least $1Billion a month, or $12Billion per year (if not closer to $20Billion). The annual box office for Disney at the best times (pre-covid) was under $8Billion (which is then split with theaters, etc.).  So, yes, there's a "problem" without as many rentals and DVDs but they aren't making less money with Disney+. I'm not sure where there would be "money left on the table" compared to what they're pulling in each month now.  Rentals and DVD purchases didn't come close to these numbers for Disney, even before streaming. They gave up quarters in order to get dollars.

Edited February 27, 2023 by valiantman

[davidpg]

On 2/26/2023 at 2:30 PM, 1Cool said:

I hope this prompts Marvel to scrap The whole multiverse movies.  I didn’t really like those stories in the comics and after Dr Strange was such a train wreck I hope they go a different direction.

I keep praying that this phase will break and kill the Multiverse with the defeat of Kand.  They can/will have remnants from all the universes squished together and from there can restart things without ever having to revisit the Multiverse again.  Unless it's to directly start Marvel Zombies ;)

[Bosco685]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:43 AM, valiantman said:

With 160+ million subscribers paying at least $6.25 a month (if not closer to $11 a month), Disney+ is making at least $1Billion a month, or $12Billion per year (if not closer to $20Billion). The annual box office for Disney at the best times (pre-covid) was under $8Billion (which is then split with theaters, etc.).  So, yes, there's a "problem" without as many rentals and DVDs but they aren't making less money with Disney+. I'm not sure where there would be "money left on the table" compared to what they're pulling in each month now.  Rentals and DVD purchases didn't come close to these numbers for Disney, even before streaming. They gave up quarters in order to get dollars.

It would appear streaming is a moneymaker. Such is not the reality.

11-2022: Disney+ keeps growing fast. But streaming loses $1.5 billion

Quote

Disney’s direct-to-consumer division, which also includes Hulu and ESPN+, on Tuesday reported an operating loss of nearly $1.5 billion, more than doubling its loss of $630 million during the same quarter a year earlier.

02-2023: Disney plans to lay off 7K employees

Quote

Disney’s Direct-to-Consumer revenue for the quarter rose 13%, to $5.3 billion, while its operating loss increased 78% to $1.05 billion. The higher year-over-year operating loss — which was better than analysts’ forecast loss of $1.22 billion for the DTC segment (and compared with a loss of $1.5 billion the previous quarter) — was due to higher content and technology costs at Disney+ (with higher average costs per hour of programming, which included an increased mix of originals) as well as higher content costs and lower ad revenue at Hulu. Financial performance of ESPN+ improved thanks to higher retail pricing. The company continues to expect Disney+ to hit profitability in fiscal year 2024.

 

The brightest spot for Disney in the quarter was its Parks, Experiences and Products group, which saw revenue climb 21% to $8.7 billion and operating income rise 25% to $3.1 billion, reflecting increased guest spending at domestic parks and experiences (and to a lesser extent at Disney's international parks and resorts).

Quote

As part of Disney’s effort to make its streaming business profitable, Iger revealed during today’s earnings call that the company is planning a significant restructuring, including job cuts. The layoffs will affect 7,000 employees. The company froze new hiring in November.

What has been a safety blanket for Disney during hard times has been the theme parks and resorts. But with plans to lay off 7,000 employees and Disney still wrestling with $45B of the $71.3B it spent on Fox Studios, like other studios now Disney is opening up to selling content to other networks again.

[Gatsby77]

I mean, it's clear Quantumania is bombing (ahem!) underperforming, but it still deserves a solid shout-out for managing a higher percentage 2nd-weekend drop than BvS.

*That* takes skill. 

[drotto]

On 2/27/2023 at 7:43 AM, valiantman said:

With 160+ million subscribers paying at least $6.25 a month (if not closer to $11 a month), Disney+ is making at least $1Billion a month, or $12Billion per year (if not closer to $20Billion). The annual box office for Disney at the best times (pre-covid) was under $8Billion (which is then split with theaters, etc.).  So, yes, there's a "problem" without as many rentals and DVDs but they aren't making less money with Disney+. I'm not sure where there would be "money left on the table" compared to what they're pulling in each month now.  Rentals and DVD purchases didn't come close to these numbers for Disney, even before streaming. They gave up quarters in order to get dollars.

In the last investor call for Disney, Iger reported that Disney + LOST $1.1 billion in Q4 for 2022, and that was the fourth quarter in a row with a similar loss.  They anaolgy I heard is that this is the equivalent of sinking a cruise ship every quarter. It has also been reported that D + has lost in excess of $10 billion since the service became available.   D+ is a money loser at this time. The content is way to expensive for what it is brining in. That is why content creation is being cut by $3 billion (same investor call). Last quarter d+ lost around 2.4 million subscribers, the US sub market was stagnant, and most of the losses were in India.

 

The main issue is with those other sources of revenue, it was coming from other companies.  Now, even if they sell it to D+, you are essentially just moving money around, it is not a new money stream. When they used to sell the streaming rights to Netflix, they would give Disney $100's of million per year for those films.  Now they have to pay for all the infrstucture and people, but there is no additinal payment. The money from subs, does not cover their costs. You also have to remember that those 160 million subs are not paying $6.25 a month.  Many of those are "free" subs, and prices vary widely between regions.   One of the biggest secondary markets it India, where a basic money sub is around $0.81 per month. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by drotto

[drotto]

On 2/27/2023 at 8:37 AM, Bosco685 said:

It would appear streaming is a moneymaker. Such is not the reality.

11-2022: Disney+ keeps growing fast. But streaming loses $1.5 billion

02-2023: Disney plans to lay off 7K employees

What has been a safety blanket for Disney during hard times has been the theme parks and resorts. But with plans to lay off 7,000 employees and Disney still wrestling with $45B of the $71.3B it spent on Fox Studios, like other studios now Disney is opening up to selling content to other networks again.

The first layoffs have started and will be effective March 1st.  The divisions getting hit the hardest are human resources (under various names) and DEI divisions. There were several articles detailing this last week.

 

At this point, ESPN and the Parks are subsidizing the entertainment and content divisions. Other then human resources, entertainment and content creation is where the vast majority of the cuts will occur. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

31st film in a massive franchise where connectivity throughout drives butts in seats

Third film in the mini-franchise

Warm up act to excite everyone to future Phase V releases

"But at least it had a second-week drop bigger than BVS!"